Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: HMI  (Read 34504 times)

GregShapps

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 138
    • http://www.shappsphotography.com
HMI
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2010, 11:38:28 pm »

Quote from: pschefz
the ones i am talking about are Litepanels (that is the brand) not cheap but i believe a 1x1ft panel is between 1500 and 2500....depending on features...there are a lot of sizes and accessories....the smaller ones are all over the place in TV/movie production...you can put them anywhere and they operate on batteries as well.....


Cool Lights are WAY cheaper the Lightpanels!

Cool Lights LED

By the way - I had two Arri HMI kits - I freakin hated them - color was off, not powerful enough and just gave an overall fugly quality of light.   Sold them for more then double what I paid so I was at least happy about that.

Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2010, 12:19:12 am »

The Focus 77 with an HMI is my once light of choice for video's and portraits.



Quote from: design_freak
Try Briese HMI light. It's expensive but in my opinion best light ever made. You must try it. One word - Posh :-)
www.briese-lighttechnik.de
You must try the following lights modifiers:
Focus 77,100, 180
Sun
Downlight

Electronic ballast form 1200 - 4k


Best regards,
Design Freak
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2010, 12:25:37 am »

Quote from: LiamStrain
The last ones I used (albeit a few years ago - some rental kinoflo's) still had flicker/ballast problems, and spectrum spikes. I found it was still having to add the +5M filter and hope for the best. Wasn't worth it for the way I shot.

I don't know if they have improved. For my part, I'm comfortable using strobes and regular hotlights.

Are you talkin' Kinos? My Kino Diva 4 banks are great.  No spectrum issues, temp is right on, balast keeps on truckin'.  The way the lights mount to the metal mount with the ball head is flimsy, but nothing black gaf tape doesn't fix.
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2010, 12:29:10 am »

They are awesome but not as a key.  Not enough output, really, unless you gang up many many panels.  I use them to fill in holes, fake a window, light spaces like closets and refrigerators and car interiors.

Quote from: pschefz
the ones i am talking about are Litepanels (that is the brand) not cheap but i believe a 1x1ft panel is between 1500 and 2500....depending on features...there are a lot of sizes and accessories....the smaller ones are all over the place in TV/movie production...you can put them anywhere and they operate on batteries as well.....
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2010, 12:43:13 am »

We have a basic HMI set up, all Arri's, and an old waterproof Kobold.  If we shoot all HMI we rent extra, its much cheaper than owning, but usually we use tungsten mixed with Kino's.  Anything outside we use tungsten unless we can rent several Arri suns.  We, or really, I, balance the color temps, even window light, with Rosco gels and a color temp meter.  It takes some time, but is usually worth it.

One thing about continuous on location for stills:  I think its best to use lights that let you work with still photo modifiers.  Too much grip work on location eats time, and by extension money, and open faced or fresnel lights require grip work.  Best to rent or buy something that you can quickly slap on a light stand with a softbox/brolly whatever, crank up your iso, and get to work.  I rent a Briese Focus 77 HMI from the Piers, with a battery pack.  I gaf tape the ballast and the battery to an assistant and mount the Focus on a light stand, which the assistant carries, thus nothing touches the ground and you can avoid permits and keep everything low key.  This is how I shoot on the streets for that rushed insanity that is Broad and Wall at 4pm., still or video.

Logged

LiamStrain

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 116
    • http://www.streetlevel-photography.com
HMI
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2010, 11:46:19 am »

Quote from: TMARK
Are you talkin' Kinos? My Kino Diva 4 banks are great.  No spectrum issues, temp is right on, balast keeps on truckin'.  The way the lights mount to the metal mount with the ball head is flimsy, but nothing black gaf tape doesn't fix.

The ones I used were rentals and pretty beat up, it's possible I just got dodgy equipment.

Regardless, for what and how I shoot, I don't really need continuous sources much anymore, so it's a non-issue for now. Glad to hear the newer equip is better in that arena. If I start adding in any motion work, those might be an option again.

bcooter

  • Guest
HMI
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2010, 01:50:14 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
They are awesome but not as a key.  Not enough output, really, unless you gang up many many panels.  I use them to fill in holes, fake a window, light spaces like closets and refrigerators and car interiors.

As TMark said using Kinos or any florescent is too dim for a key for stills, also for most video unless you use the 5d2 at about iso 2000 (which is pretty smooth for that iso).

Also all the florescent fixtures produce a fairly soft light and other than softer modifiers don't offer much in the way of flexibility.

I have the fotoflex, (the ones with the huge bulbs and also another brand (don't remember at this moment) with smaller florescent bulbs and they both put out the same output, or close to it, regardless of the specs.

One upside to the fotoflex kits are they take daylight florescent and tungsten bulbs.  The tungsten put out a lot more light.

So bottom line if your shooting a combination still and video project, don't expect to take your low iso medium format back and freeze a moving subject, unless your use some very heavy duty hmi's (which on location have to be spiked into the breaker box) or run a very larger generator.

If you can live with 800 iso at F 5.6 with a dslr, then you can use most any continuous source but you still won't be able to freeze someone jumping in the air unless you use a D3s at iso twenty billion.

Personally,  I like tungsten with digital and believe it gives a nice look, is cost effective, and you can buy a lot of arri tungsten for the price of a decent hmi and ballast.  As far as grip, it depends on what you shoot.  Obviously modifiers for hot lights and more complicated with 4x scrims and a lot of flags to do pretty much what one beauty dish will produce on strobe, so if your working on budget and can't afford a gaffer, be prepared for a medium learning curve and get some hot gloves so you can keep your fingers intact.

If your working any sized project with a budget search out a good gaffer that has his own truck and equipment.  They will usually work very favorable package deals, they know their own equipment well and though there is a time delay, it's not off the wall long if the gaffer and grips are good.

I agree with gwitif that profoto, bron or someone should make a more cost effective hmi, cause 5 grand for 500 watts just doesn't do much.  Maybe it they were 1,000 watts you could swing it (though still on the  limit), but 500 watts can be limiting and in medium format land you better get one of those old timey head braces to hold your subject still.

One trick I do when shooting continuous for video and flash for still is to set the lights for continuous and then add a small monoblock, usually as a very turned down backlight through a soft modifier like a shoot through umbrella.  This will help freeze the subject on stills, not really interfere with the look of the shoot on video and though on stills you might get some shutter drag blur, usually it's sharp.

Regardless, with a combination still and video project your pretty much in dslr territory, if there is movement.

[attachment=20344:mixedlight.jpg]

BC
Logged

Nick-T

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 462
HMI
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2010, 02:15:34 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
[attachment=20344:mixedlight.jpg]

BC

Hey Cooter I hope you got james Russell's permission before using his pics to illustrate your point..
Logged
[url=http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.c

lisa_r

  • Guest
HMI
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2010, 02:16:53 pm »

Quote from: Nick-T
Hey Cooter I hope you got james Russell's permission before using his pics to illustrate your point..

That's a good one Nick! ;-)
Logged

Brent McCombs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 196
    • http://www.alterego.zenfolio.com
HMI
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2010, 04:39:10 pm »

Quote from: BJNY
I attended a demo of Bron's Kobold products recently,

and liked how compact their 400 is.


Can the 200's overpower the sun? I was talking with an LA based photographer who is very experienced in the industry, who recently moved to these Kobolds. He was telling me how awesome the '2k's were, and how he could over power the sun with them... but when i went to the website, I only found 200w (and the 400w) version.

My world is mostly strobe, with some Aries as well. I typically use a 600w light minimum when outside, and more often have the 1100w Elinchrom Speed Ranger pack and a single head firing near full to over power the sun, and that's with minimal modifiers.... so I'm confused about the Kobolds. First, to me a '2K' would be a two-thousand watt light, not a 200. Is there some sort of difference with the HMI? Am I missing something obvious (wouldn't be the first time).

B
Logged

Brent McCombs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 196
    • http://www.alterego.zenfolio.com
HMI
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2010, 04:47:46 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
I gaf tape the ballast and the battery to an assistant and mount the Focus on a light stand, which the assistant carries, thus nothing touches the ground and you can avoid permits and keep everything low key.  This is how I shoot on the streets for that rushed insanity that is Broad and Wall at 4pm., still or video.

I'd love to see some samples of this - it sounds like a set up that would be fantastically useful to me.
Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
HMI
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2010, 05:06:45 pm »

Quote from: Nick-T
Hey Cooter I hope you got james Russell's permission before using his pics to illustrate your point..


Hey Tee,

Yea I know James well, we speak often, especially late at night.

In fact we're thinking about doing an HMI blog together.  I'll let you know when I cut the deal.

BC
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 05:14:39 pm »

Quote from: Brent McCombs
I'd love to see some samples of this - it sounds like a set up that would be fantastically useful to me.

Samples of the rig?  I'm shooting this rig in March for a stills editorial and a music video.  We are renting one of the Gray Line red open top double decker tour buses.  The talent sits in the very back and we mount the camera on a steady cam mounted to the seats, and light him (big time rapper) with the Focus HMI.  I'll shoot some pics of the rig.  I have one of my assistant all stressed because the balast and battery were hot when we taped them to his leg (they were on belt clips, by the way).  Battery ended up in the back pack.

Another trick tought to me by Connie Hall (RIP, one for my hommie) the Cinematographer was to mount a single Kino tube on a mic boom, balast on a grip's belt.  You can follow the talent and use it to model the light for a long take which has a close up, all in one shot.  So you run your talent down a hall, lit by practicals and the kino tube, then the stop, c/u, which is lit with the kino tube such that an actress gets modeled light rather than the harsh light from the practicals, and boom:  everyone is happy.  For location you could use a battery or an E2000 generator.

All of this requires, in a stills camera, at least 800 iso.
Logged

Brent McCombs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 196
    • http://www.alterego.zenfolio.com
HMI
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 08:09:44 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
Samples of the rig?  I'm shooting this rig in March for a stills editorial and a music video.  We are renting one of the Gray Line red open top double decker tour buses.  The talent sits in the very back and we mount the camera on a steady cam mounted to the seats, and light him (big time rapper) with the Focus HMI.  I'll shoot some pics of the rig.  I have one of my assistant all stressed because the balast and battery were hot when we taped them to his leg (they were on belt clips, by the way).  Battery ended up in the back pack.

Another trick tought to me by Connie Hall (RIP, one for my hommie) the Cinematographer was to mount a single Kino tube on a mic boom, balast on a grip's belt.  You can follow the talent and use it to model the light for a long take which has a close up, all in one shot.  So you run your talent down a hall, lit by practicals and the kino tube, then the stop, c/u, which is lit with the kino tube such that an actress gets modeled light rather than the harsh light from the practicals, and boom:  everyone is happy.  For location you could use a battery or an E2000 generator.

All of this requires, in a stills camera, at least 800 iso.

Yes, I'd really like to see that rig. Keeping kit off the ground and staying away from the headaches of permits will be a big deal for me if I get to shoot some stuff in New York.

Right now I've got a Speed Ranger in a backpack, with a head on a monopole as my only option.
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2010, 08:41:59 pm »

Quote from: Brent McCombs
Yes, I'd really like to see that rig. Keeping kit off the ground and staying away from the headaches of permits will be a big deal for me if I get to shoot some stuff in New York.

Right now I've got a Speed Ranger in a backpack, with a head on a monopole as my only option.

That's not bad either.  A friend uses Lumadynes on poles, or rather, on extended light stands with the legs folded up.  It works.  

If the weather's good just reflectors can work wonders.

Permits in NYC aren't that bad to get, nothing like LA.
Logged

Brent McCombs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 196
    • http://www.alterego.zenfolio.com
HMI
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2010, 10:51:13 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
That's not bad either.  A friend uses Lumadynes on poles, or rather, on extended light stands with the legs folded up.  It works.  

If the weather's good just reflectors can work wonders.

Permits in NYC aren't that bad to get, nothing like LA.

Yeah, we gave up on LA.
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2010, 09:05:56 am »

Quote from: Brent McCombs
Yeah, we gave up on LA.

We hire a producer for LA who handles permits etc. Everyone in LA has their hand out.
Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
HMI
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2010, 12:51:46 pm »

Quote from: Brent McCombs
Yeah, we gave up on LA.

Unless you learn all the municipalities in Southern California, and know the workings of the EDIC, it can be daunting to shoot here, with permits, rules, different insurance bonds, etc., though once you do learn it it's quite easy and as far as I know offers more year round variety than any location in the world.

We routinely go less than 1/2 of a mile to the beach and with the proper badges we have year round can shoot at will, with only a few restrictions, but once again you have to learn them and invest.

Since one of the main industries of El Lay is making little pictures, you'd think it would be easier like NY  or Miami, but the flip side to this given the scope of most production here, if permits were not required probably every inch would be blocked by a generator and and 6 honey wagons.

Yes it's more difficult, but to go from beach to desert, snow to urban in a day or two period opens up a lot of opportunity and El Lay is much more cost effective today than it was a few years ago. (That's almost an understatement).

Not that I'm asking more photographers to come to El Lay.  I'm not cause I think it's full right now.

El Lay is insane, over the top (at least to the normal world) but like the line from the tee vee show Southland says , if you work here "you have a front row seat to the greatest show on earth".

BC
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 01:20:40 pm by bcooter »
Logged

TMARK

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1841
HMI
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2010, 03:19:25 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Unless you learn all the municipalities in Southern California, and know the workings of the EDIC, it can be daunting to shoot here, with permits, rules, different insurance bonds, etc., though once you do learn it it's quite easy and as far as I know offers more year round variety than any location in the world.

We routinely go less than 1/2 of a mile to the beach and with the proper badges we have year round can shoot at will, with only a few restrictions, but once again you have to learn them and invest.

Since one of the main industries of El Lay is making little pictures, you'd think it would be easier like NY  or Miami, but the flip side to this given the scope of most production here, if permits were not required probably every inch would be blocked by a generator and and 6 honey wagons.

Yes it's more difficult, but to go from beach to desert, snow to urban in a day or two period opens up a lot of opportunity and El Lay is much more cost effective today than it was a few years ago. (That's almost an understatement).

Not that I'm asking more photographers to come to El Lay.  I'm not cause I think it's full right now.

El Lay is insane, over the top (at least to the normal world) but like the line from the tee vee show Southland says , if you work here "you have a front row seat to the greatest show on earth".

BC

The only thing I don't like about LA is the traffic.  It took me and an assistant an hour and twenty to drive from Beverly and Labrea to Century City/BH High.  I bailed at some point on Olympic and walked around, it is where I spent my formative years.  I like the food, better than NYC.  I like the space.  Cost of living is about the same as NYC, but you get more for your dollar, live better.  I like how the galleries can take risks on artists because their rent isn't $100k a month.  I like the hot rod culture, going to Pomona to witness the drags.  

You are so right about the locations: Laurel Canyon nature, Big Bear snow/mountains, Chatsworth suburban dystopia, high desert in Mojave/Owens River Valley, beaches, and amazing Modern houses by Neutra.  Too bad it takes two hours driving to go to the valley and back for rentals.

As a point of comparison we shot this week in Huntington and Pax, West Virginia, in the snow and 20 degrees.  They didn't even have a permit process, but they did have a Coogi store.  

Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
HMI
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2010, 04:52:13 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
The only thing I don't like about LA is the traffic.  It took me and an assistant an hour and twenty to drive from Beverly and Labrea to Century City/BH High.  I bailed at some point on Olympic and walked around, it is where I spent my formative years.  I like the food, better than NYC.  I like the space.  Cost of living is about the same as NYC, but you get more for your dollar, live better.  I like how the galleries can take risks on artists because their rent isn't $100k a month.  I like the hot rod culture, going to Pomona to witness the drags.  

You are so right about the locations: Laurel Canyon nature, Big Bear snow/mountains, Chatsworth suburban dystopia, high desert in Mojave/Owens River Valley, beaches, and amazing Modern houses by Neutra.  Too bad it takes two hours driving to go to the valley and back for rentals.

As a point of comparison we shot this week in Huntington and Pax, West Virginia, in the snow and 20 degrees.  They didn't even have a permit process, but they did have a Coogi store.

Since you've also lived in both NY and LA you know the differences.

As you know you learn the process, as in any city.  For people that have worked in Miami which is quite small or NY which is quite concentrated, learning LA well and the rules, the permits, the process takes a while and I'll agree there are a lot of hands out, but then again people should be paid for their property and their work, just like photographers want to be paid for their photographs.

BC
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 01:46:13 pm by bcooter »
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up