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Author Topic: Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th  (Read 81784 times)

aaron

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #200 on: February 10, 2010, 04:51:58 am »

Quote from: Toto
Of course, and 35 mm is boring me too


"Perhaps the world's second worst crime is boredom. The first is being a bore."


(Sir Cecil Beaton)
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gwhitf

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #201 on: February 10, 2010, 09:07:24 am »

Quote from: TechTalk
What happens when he shoots with something else?

I just find this topic interesting. Here is a guy who's made a name for himself shooting 8x10. Yet now, I guess he's bumping up into the commercial realities of deadlines and turnaround issues. Yet, it is the optical qualities and focus fall-off of 8x10 that many times make a Soth image a Soth image. (Plus the whole artiste story that you can tell, about "shooting 8x10 versus digital"). See the "girl on ice skates" image, and "preacher holding Bible" image, for what I think is the Soth signature look -- razor sharp focus on the subject, but the background falls away instantly.

http://alecsoth.com/Mississippi-new/pages/frameset.html   (Trust me, the web does not do this image justice. I've seen the print).

There is no way to achieve that look with "almost 645 digital". People will argue that there is, but if you see one of his 30x40s on the wall, you'll never argue that you could. You're dealing with a tiny sensor, (compared to 8x10). It's just not the same. Try it.

I see that blue house image, and it looks like some Location Scouting image. Certainly not signature Alec Soth.

It's just interesting when someone has created their vibe from one camera, but then commercial realities begin to try to pry them away from what put them on the map. Do you turn the job down, because there's not enough production time, or, do you just try to fake your look with a digital solution? (Or, do you just walk away from your reputation, and try to create a new reputation -- one that's more achievable in this modern, we-want-it-yesterday mentality?)

Personally, I'm rooting for him to hold his own, and keep shooting 8x10. It separates him out, and keeps him "an artist" instead of just another modern editorial photographer. There are few 8x10 guys left, and the world needs to keep them. Would a Roversi session feel the same if it wasn't BW 8x10 Polaroid? God forbid that the succumbs to the pressure, and buys a teeny little 645.

http://paoloroversi.com/  

(Imagine a bunch of battery chargers, and laptops, and CF cards, lying on this wooden floor in this Parisian studio. It's just not meant to be).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 09:22:35 am by gwhitf »
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TMARK

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #202 on: February 10, 2010, 09:52:45 am »

I think you have it 100% correct.  Soth takes the long view and is hedging his bets by entering the commercial world.  His 8x10 is great for the one shot editorial portrait, but he is now a Magnum member, which is all documentary editorial on a tight publication schedule and BAM:  H3DII-50, and an HP sponsorship for inkjet prints.  It was probably a shock to witness the jaded and depraved world of commercial photography for the first time, like when Joe Buck first gets to NYC and meets Ratzo Rizzo in Midnight Cowboy.

My favorite Soth book is Dog Days Columbia, shot on a Mamiya 6.  It has the Soth vibe but it does not vibe 8x10.  I'd like to see what he's been doing with the H, as the shots on the Blad site aren't that interesting.

As to Poalo Reversi, he shot a an editorial for W using a 500 series Blad and a Phase back.  Its nice stuff, works, but its not 8x10 Type 55 magic.  The video shows him on location and there is the cart and the tech and it brought a tear to my eye because it JUST ISN'T RIGHT.  He looked a little lost holding that little camera with a wire coming out of it.

Quote from: gwhitf
I just find this topic interesting. Here is a guy who's made a name for himself shooting 8x10. Yet now, I guess he's bumping up into the commercial realities of deadlines and turnaround issues. Yet, it is the optical qualities and focus fall-off of 8x10 that many times make a Soth image a Soth image. (Plus the whole artiste story that you can tell, about "shooting 8x10 versus digital"). See the "girl on ice skates" image, and "preacher holding Bible" image, for what I think is the Soth signature look -- razor sharp focus on the subject, but the background falls away instantly.

http://alecsoth.com/Mississippi-new/pages/frameset.html   (Trust me, the web does not do this image justice. I've seen the print).

There is no way to achieve that look with "almost 645 digital". People will argue that there is, but if you see one of his 30x40s on the wall, you'll never argue that you could. You're dealing with a tiny sensor, (compared to 8x10). It's just not the same. Try it.

I see that blue house image, and it looks like some Location Scouting image. Certainly not signature Alec Soth.

It's just interesting when someone has created their vibe from one camera, but then commercial realities begin to try to pry them away from what put them on the map. Do you turn the job down, because there's not enough production time, or, do you just try to fake your look with a digital solution? (Or, do you just walk away from your reputation, and try to create a new reputation -- one that's more achievable in this modern, we-want-it-yesterday mentality?)

Personally, I'm rooting for him to hold his own, and keep shooting 8x10. It separates him out, and keeps him "an artist" instead of just another modern editorial photographer. There are few 8x10 guys left, and the world needs to keep them. Would a Roversi session feel the same if it wasn't BW 8x10 Polaroid? God forbid that the succumbs to the pressure, and buys a teeny little 645.

http://paoloroversi.com/  

(Imagine a bunch of battery chargers, and laptops, and CF cards, lying on this wooden floor in this Parisian studio. It's just not meant to be).
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pcunite

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #203 on: February 10, 2010, 10:07:58 am »

Quote from: TMARK
I think you have it 100% correct.  Soth takes the long view and is hedging his bets by entering the commercial world.

I think that Soth used an 8x10 not so much for it's final image qualities but how it made him feel when he used it. When he was discovered and received praise he shot a style based on how that made him feel. And when he started making bank he again like that feeling as well. He never spoke about his images and himself the way others have chosen to perceive him.

I have fully embraced the 35mm digital and work with its limitations but if I where to shoot according to some inner artistic desires it would with a 4x5 digital camera (which does not exist).

People still using 8x10 make me think of those persons who spend a year gluing toothpicks together or something... really driven slightly mad people. There is no way I am going to drag about an 8x10 setup and I choose not to care about whatever falloff they might provide. But then again I am not some OCD crazy nut.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 10:14:40 am by pcunite »
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TechTalk

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #204 on: February 10, 2010, 10:32:19 am »

Thankfully, artists ( and people in general) aren’t forced to live within the narrow confines of other peoples perceptions. We’d all go mad or die of boredom.
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BJL

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #205 on: February 10, 2010, 10:40:42 am »

Quote from: Toto
Stitching is boring and is not an everyday solution

Anyway, digital 35 mm IQ is not equivalent to IQ of a MF back ...
But "per pixel", the recent Sony 24MP and Canon 22MP 35mm format CMOS sensors are overall better than the lagging Kodak and Dalsa FF CCD technologies. (All are at about the same pixel size of 6 microns, by the way.) Stitching then switches the advantage in pixel count and total sensor area in favor of the Sony/Canon sensor option.

But only when stitching is possible of course; I agree that it is not "an everyday solution", in that for example even slight subject movement (clouds, branches) can be a problem.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 10:42:23 am by BJL »
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Toto

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #206 on: February 10, 2010, 01:48:01 pm »

Quote from: BJL
But "per pixel", the recent Sony 24MP and Canon 22MP 35mm format CMOS sensors are overall better than the lagging Kodak and Dalsa FF CCD technologies. (All are at about the same pixel size of 6 microns, by the way.) Stitching then switches the advantage in pixel count and total sensor area in favor of the Sony/Canon sensor option.

But only when stitching is possible of course; I agree that it is not "an everyday solution", in that for example even slight subject movement (clouds, branches) can be a problem.

To be frank, I've a Nikon, as everybody else, and I like to use it when I need it. It's a different tool, different process, different result. I don't see the same image quality, but maybe I've not the last sensor, that's it.

If I want to stitch, I can do  it with a 60MP and believe me or not, the result will be much better than with my Nikon. What's really boring me is when 35 mm is presented here as the overall solution to replace MF. It's different, I won't stitch a portrait, a long exposure landscape or a nude.

After all, this is a Medium and large format forum, not the Nikon stitching forum
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Toto

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #207 on: February 10, 2010, 02:09:41 pm »

Quote from: KLaban
I've made the odd 'natural world' image over a few more years than I care to remember and could count on the fingers of one hand those situations in which stitching would have been an option.

But what puzzles me is this obsession with big. Big country, big cars, big tits, big landscapes, big prints...

Yep Michael Kenna makes small print but great photos !

here : http://www.michaelkenna.net/
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bigalbest

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #208 on: February 10, 2010, 02:18:17 pm »

On the Hasselblad site the H4D40 has an ISO range of 100-1600. I wonder how the files look at 1600, if it is decent I may be getting one very soon.
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Jozef Zajaz

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #209 on: February 10, 2010, 04:00:30 pm »

Quote from: bigalbest
On the Hasselblad site the H4D40 has an ISO range of 100-1600. I wonder how the files look at 1600, if it is decent I may be getting one very soon.

So what is so new and revolutionary about this system? Looks like the h3d but they took the p40+ sensor ....
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Nick-T

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #210 on: February 10, 2010, 04:06:15 pm »

Quote from: Jozef Zajaz
So what is so new and revolutionary about this system? Looks like the h3d but they took the p40+ sensor ....

The P40+ is a Dalsa. This one is a Kodak.
Nick-T
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bcooter

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #211 on: February 10, 2010, 04:19:45 pm »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
The other photograph is labelled 2002.

I think this section of the forum is funny, because it really is more about selling cameras than actual photography.  Actually it's more about selling niche cameras in a niche market, than it is about anything else.

I looked at the blad site briefly and though I just clicked on a few images  the few I did click on were 35mm format.  Maybe they have been cropped, but since some were dated in the early 2000's I doubt if they were shot with a digital hasselblad.

Don't get me wrong, I like the blad site and like to look at pretty pictures, but could really care less what digital capture device was used (that's my new term for cameras, "digital  capture devices" which I've now coined since camera companies refer to photographers as end users and the media refers to photoraphers as content providers).

Anyway it never seems to bother a camera company what photograph they show as long as there is a photographer's quote that says something like "the best digital capture device on the planet".   Or something silly.  I know, I've said the same thing before.

It's not that anyone is intentionally fibbing it's just the way things are.  Some camera company calls, ooohs and ahhhs over your work and it's flattering so in kind you ohhh and ahhh over their camera.  

Anyway, I also know from past experience getting too close to a camera company skews your objectivity.  It's just human nature because there you are just shooting away with your Canon or Nikon and you think, "oh shit, ________ features my work so I had better dust off the digital back and shoot a few frames so I can say I shot this with a  ________.

Don't think this doesn't happen, actually it happens a lot.  I know of photographs featured by camera company(s), shot  by very good photographers that were reshot using brand _________, though originally they'd been shot with a another brand.

Now deep down I don't think there is anything wrong with this cause advertising has always featured semi celebs to sell product and anybody with any common sense knows that Hair Soap P is never really used on set for a hair ad or actually believe that  Tiger Woods buys his shick razors at the local CVS.

The only downside about ohhing and ahhing about a camera make is some people actually believe that one brand will make their photographs a lot better than another brand and that's just not so.  I get sporatic e-mails where someone asks me if buying a _________ is a good idea, cause they love the shot I did with the _________.  It's obvious that they're starting out and really shouldn't spend money on $20,000 to $50,000 camera systems to make them a better photographer.

So you kind of have to be careful what you say, cause the last thing I want is points on my driver's license that say, "photographer mortages home for camera".

Still, with all of this "superior image quality stuff" and showing legacy photos shot before there were even digital cameras, I think most of the makers, especially the niche makers have missed the mark when it comes to selling the best of their product.

I've said this now 200 times, but follow a photographer on a real heavy production shoot from pre production to final delivery (including the 12 rounds of retouching) and document it showing how your camera works within the professional photography world system.

Now if I was Hasselblad and was writing the sales message (my ad roots are showing), I'd start every web page with the headline, "the only current medium format camera with a full lens line of leaf shutter lenses".

Then the second headline would read, "The only medium format  camera (camera not digital back), that is in rental in 98% of the worlds major markets.

Then I'd throw in a touch of self regulation and only show images shot with Hasselblad cameras, digital or analog.'

Actually, I'd take it a step further and only show photographs shot with hasselblad cameras where the owner actually bought the camera at retail and used it.

IMO

BC
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BernardLanguillier

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #212 on: February 10, 2010, 04:52:17 pm »

Quote from: KLaban
I've made the odd 'natural world' image over a few more years than I care to remember and could count on the fingers of one hand those situations in which stitching would have been an option.

Are those available online? I would be interested in checking them out.

Quote from: KLaban
But what puzzles me is this obsession with big. Big country, big cars, big tits, big landscapes, big prints...

How does that differ from the usage ogf 4x5 or 8x10 in the past?

Either way, you need high resolutions and then there is no reason to stop at 60PM, or you don't and 35mm does the job extremely well already.

Cheers,
Bernard

Dick Roadnight

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #213 on: February 10, 2010, 05:17:18 pm »

Getting back to the H4D-40...

...did anyone else get to use one today?

The auto-focus (even without Auto Phocus Lock) seems an order of magnitude better than the H3D, using the same (50-110 zoom) lens, with and without modelling lights.

There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.
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bigalbest

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #214 on: February 10, 2010, 05:34:15 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Getting back to the H4D-40...

...did anyone else get to use one today?

The auto-focus (even without Auto Phocus Lock) seems an order of magnitude better than the H3D, using the same (50-110 zoom) lens, with and without modelling lights.

There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.

Any sample photos, and did you check low light capability?
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Doug Peterson

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #215 on: February 10, 2010, 05:56:39 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.

What issues with the P65+ are you referring to??? It's been shipping for a year without problems.

Actually "without problems" is an understatement - it's the best back I've ever seen and there is something to be said for purchasing a product which is already been on the market long enough to have a proven real-world track record.

Doug Peterson
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 05:59:50 pm by dougpetersonci »
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PeterLindeberg

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #216 on: February 10, 2010, 06:08:20 pm »




Hi LL and Dick

Yes, I did try the H4D40 today in Stockholm Sweden!

The Hasselblad D40 seemed faster than my P30+ H2 body and the "True Focus button" did actually work. This function really helps better focusing throughout the image! I did not test the 4 mins long exposure, however the new 3" display is an improvement to the old one - now - for the first time - you can check your focusing on a MF digital back..


B.R


P.L



Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Getting back to the H4D-40...

...did anyone else get to use one today?

The auto-focus (even without Auto Phocus Lock) seems an order of magnitude better than the H3D, using the same (50-110 zoom) lens, with and without modelling lights.

There is a rumour that the H4D-60 will be available next month, when they have sorted problems that Phase are having with the same digiback.


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bcooter

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #217 on: February 10, 2010, 06:36:48 pm »

Quote from: PeterLindeberg
now - for the first time - you can check your focusing on a MF digital back..


B.R


P.L


Add that to the next Hasselblad headlines.   Seriously.

BC
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BJNY

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #218 on: February 10, 2010, 06:57:10 pm »

H4D-40 event at Fotocare was snowed out today,
rescheduled for tomorrow Thursday.
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Guillermo

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #219 on: February 10, 2010, 07:02:54 pm »

it will be interesting how the h4D 40 will compare to the pentax 645D.....hey they have a countdown on their website as well! and looks like it will have a 40mpix sensor as well.....new rumored price...6500$....

either way....for whatever reason the MF world decided that the only way they could compete with DSLR is with 645...and no other option...
i guess i am so desperate for a "real mf" feel that i shoot manual lenses and an angle finder on my 5DII....

quality keeps coming up here as well: if any client would hire any shooter for pixel quality, it would be so easy to be successful....simply rig up 2 p65+ side by side for sync'd shooting....done...until the next guy does 4...and so on....people get hired for a vision, professionalism, experience, ability to deliver....everything before what they are shooting with....or it is simply their niece with a camera...

i have never seen a 4 or 5 meter print...all large prints i have seen so far have been shot with film....and when looking up close they look strangely soft and blotchy and noisy and so....non digital...but who looks at a klimt with his nose at the canvas? i guess more people then i would think! maybe it's just that the images suck so bad that instead of turning around at the door one has to find something to look for and finds...DETAIL! yeah...

so the h4d60/p65+ is for people who need super resolution...to really get everything out of the sensor the gear has to be on tripod and the mirror lifted....so why the focus thingy? why not a larger sensor? i really don't want to hear about price....if pentax can sell their kodak based thing for 6500.....a rig 4, 5 or 6x the price should be able to have a sensor that is larger? why not put 2 in one body/back? who cares how big the back is, who cares if i have to run it through some software to open it up?

red promised some crazy sensor (they are making a lot of promises but this one is really out there).....6x17?!
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