D3X test w w/o AA filter

[HarryHoffman]

Tested 2 D3X  's with and without the AA filter. Also tested the Non AA D3X against a P21+
As usual, someone will complain about how it was done...I don't really care. It was for my benefit and thought it may be interesting to others.

Summary; The non AA D3X is a little better than stock and the 18mp P21+ is a little better than the non AA D3X

Images here
http://www.harrywhoffman.com/Misc/D3X-test/10719377_jo5TT

[DanielStone]

boy,

I wish I could afford to have (2) D3x bodies in my roller  

but do you think that the removal of the AA filter brings out THAT much more quality in the end file to justify voiding the warranty for the camera?

-Dan

[HarryHoffman]

boy,

I wish I could afford to have (2) D3x bodies in my roller  

but do you think that the removal of the AA filter brings out THAT much more quality in the end file to justify voiding the warranty for the camera?

-Dan

I do. The colors are much better too. The 2nd camera used was from borrowlenses.com. They are great and let me test it at their shop for free.
Photos used are from raw and cropped. White point set with no sharpening, saved to JPEG

[JeffKohn]

Photos used are from raw and cropped. White point set with no sharpening, saved to JPEG

You're kind of stacking the decks here, unless sharpening is not a part of your normal workflow. It's true that the non-AA images will need less sharpening, but it's also true that if you apply optimal capture sharpening to both, the gap between the two will be much less than what it is with un-sharpened images.

Actually given that these are un-sharpened images, I'm surprised at just how little difference there is between the D3x-AA and D3x non-AA. I think that shows just how good the D3x's AA filter is.

I'm not sure how the lack of an AA filter would affect the colors, unless you actually like color aliasing.

[kers]

two things come to my mind.

The AA filter is only for moiré issues- is it not- i must say I hardly have them with my (normal) D3x...
But without it would be interesting to see if you get it more often.

and

Is it still easy to clean the sensor or is it more delicate then the AA fiilter..?

regards,

 Pieter

[JeffKohn]

The AA filter is only for moiré issues

The AA filter is meant to address three imaging defects that I know of

1) moire
2) edge aliasing ('jaggies')
3) color aliasing ('color sparklies')

i must say I hardly have them with my (normal) D3x...

It should be very rare indeed if the AA filter is doing its job.

But without it would be interesting to see if you get it more often.

Absolutely. How often you see moire will depend on what you shoot (fine, regular details near the nyquist limit are the big issue). But aliasing can show up a lot more often. I'm particularly sensitive to color aliasing, to me it imparts a very 'digital' and un-film-like quality to images. Some people don't seem to notice or mind it, though.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi!

Could you post RAW or DMG images?

Best regards
Erik

Tested 2 D3X  's with and without the AA filter. Also tested the Non AA D3X against a P21+
As usual, someone will complain about how it was done...I don't really care. It was for my benefit and thought it may be interesting to others.

Summary; The non AA D3X is a little better than stock and the 18mp P21+ is a little better than the non AA D3X

Images here
http://www.harrywhoffman.com/Misc/D3X-test/10719377_jo5TT

[HarryHoffman]

Is it still easy to clean the sensor or is it more delicate then the AA fiilter..?

regards,

 Pieter

They install another piece in to take its place, so it should be the same, although I have not tried it yet.

[HarryHoffman]

Hi!

Could you post RAW or DMG images?

Best regards
Erik

I will try to get some raw up tonight. What would be the best way for 24mb files?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have used "yousendit.com" before.

You could also use my server I have here at home , I could create a login so you can transfer the files via FTP, and than just post a link to the files here on LL.

Best regards
Erik

I will try to get some raw up tonight. What would be the best way for 24mb files?

[tho_mas]

Tested 2 D3X  's with and without the AA filter. Also tested the Non AA D3X against a P21+

thanks for sharing!
May I ask which lenses were used on both the non-AA D3x and the P21+?

[ziocan]

thanks for sharing!
May I ask which lenses were used on both the non-AA D3x and the P21+?

Thank you for testing.

It seems to me that the p21 still hold a sharpness advantage.
The p21 red is a bit "old digital fashion" though.
What do you guys think?

[kers]

Hi,

I have used "yousendit.com" before.

You could also use my server I have here at home , I could create a login so you can transfer the files via FTP, and than just post a link to the files here on LL.

Best regards
Erik

Are the Raw's anywhere online for download?

Would like to have them for comparison...


regards,

Pieter

[jing q]

the results look like what I see on my modified 5D mkII also
the micro details (edges of text) become much more obvious

[kers]

the results look like what I see on my modified 5D mkII also
the micro details (edges of text) become much more obvious

hello Jinq,

Do you see the removal as an improvement? Or only for some type of photographers that do not encounter moire or that often... ( landscape)?

[jing q]

hello Jinq,

Do you see the removal as an improvement? Or only for some type of photographers that do not encounter moire or that often... ( landscape)?

yes of course it's an improvement. it's very subtle but it's there.
there's less pixel smearing. with the AA filter, defined edges tend to blend with 3 pixels (grey black grey) but without the AA filter it's more like (grey black)
hard to describe. If you look at his samples you can observe the slight difference in the way edges are rendered.

[Phil Indeblanc]

thanks for sharing!
May I ask which lenses were used on both the non-AA D3x and the P21+?

Good question, what lens?
Yes RAW files would help.  
I wonder how the lens for the MF compares to the SRL lens.

Another question...on Canon there is only 1 filter of the 2 removed when doing a AA filter removal as 1 of 2 is glued to the sensor. What is the case for the D3x?... Is there 1 or 2 filters removed or is filtering different with Nikon?  The MF has 0 filters.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The MF also lacks microlenses. Both microlenses and large fill factor reduces aliasing. Simply enough, if the fill factor is larger the probability of light from a single point hitting several pixels is increased.

MF sensors have larger pixel pitch. A 24 MPixel FX camera is about 6 microns per pixel, meaning that the Nyquist limit is about 83 lp/mm, while a P25+ operates at 9 microns/pixel. Nyquist limit for a P25 is thus 55 lp/mm. A very good MF lens probably has a better MTF at 55 lp/mm than a very good 135 lens at 80 lp/mm.

I have never seen 80 lp/mm MTF  figures for a 135 lens, but the best MF lenses seem to achieve 60% MTF at 40 lp/mm. Schneider APO digitars achive 60 % MTF at 60 lp/mm.


For that simple reason it's pretty obvious that a P25 or P21 will be a lot sharper than any 135 lens, at optimum aperture and correctly focused.

Best regards
Erik

Good question, what lens?
Yes RAW files would help.  
I wonder how the lens for the MF compares to the SRL lens.

Another question...on Canon there is only 1 filter of the 2 removed when doing a AA filter removal as 1 of 2 is glued to the sensor. What is the case for the D3x?... Is there 1 or 2 filters removed or is filtering different with Nikon?  The MF has 0 filters.

[bart alexander]

Tested 2 D3X  's with and without the AA filter. Also tested the Non AA D3X against a P21+
As usual, someone will complain about how it was done...I don't really care. It was for my benefit and thought it may be interesting to others.

Summary; The non AA D3X is a little better than stock and the 18mp P21+ is a little better than the non AA D3X

Images here
http://www.harrywhoffman.com/Misc/D3X-test/10719377_jo5TT

Thanks for sharing. The difference is very obvious to me, as it was shooting the Kodak 14n.
Like to get what I see, not what Nikon or Canon thi nks I want to see.