Profoto Pro8A compared to Broncolor ScoroA4S

[Conner999]

D4 is nice looking kit.

Sadly, the nearest rental shop is about 12 hrs - or (the cost of) 1-2 days shipping both ways for any rental. Combine that with local store employees who ask YOU questions about the products THEY sell when you stop by and whose idea of high-end lighting are on-camera flash or no-name monolights, and it's strictly 'buy & try' in these parts.  Actually, I'm being a bit unfair, one salesgirl at a local outlet had shot Profoto in school, loved them and was saving for her own kit (to be bought elsewhere) .  Think it ranked as the most intelligent conversation I'd had in a local store in years.
 

Hi We have been renting the D4 2400 packs as they work with acute heads, not good for flash duration but very easy to use with individual power control.
Denis

[AlDoori]

Another wrong understanding towards the Broncolor powerpack is: You can set the flash duration at any output on the powerpack's menu.

true. this was already possible with bron graphit, scoro is even improved.

Clear glass dome over flash tube on one head and a frosted white dome over the flash tube on the other head. They produce different light qualities.

exactly. bron offers clear and frosted glass domes for different styles.

[klane]

Can you achieve 3600Ws output at 1/8000 second on Bron Graphit?

No, I think the highest power output on the Grafit is like 75w/s for the shortest duration...I might be off.

[Graham Mitchell]

Some feedback:

"Basically, the shutter is opening, the flash is going off, and then the shutter closes before the flash is done firing. The flash continues to go off, but the shutter is closed for part of the “exposure.”)" The order is wrong. When you see the shutter in the shot, it is because the second curtain is already partly closed when the flash goes off.

"you get a strong shift in color, to blue. We were able to estimate it at around 1500K,". 1500° Kelvin is orange light, not blue.

It would be worth adding that turning the Color Control off on the Broncolor would not be suitable for mixed light scenarios. I'd also be interested to know how this affects the CRI of the light.

The spec table appears to contain several errors.

[Juanito]

Nice review. I'm not in the market for either pack and usually stick with Profoto when I rent just because I'm familiar with it. That said, I think there's benefits to the Bron system that weren't touched on. I took a workshop with Nadav Kander who uses Bron exclusively. He was adjusting the color temp and output of the modeling lights (if I recall correctly). He was quickly making adjustments that just weren't possible with Profoto. (He uses modeling lights mixed with strobes quite a bit so I can see where this is a big advantage for him.)

One thing that was a pain was that the sync cord on the Bron wasn't a standard RCA jack. We couldn't use Pocket Wizards since no one had thought to get whatever silly cord is necessary to fire the pack. Thankfully, we dug out a sync cord that the rental house had tossed in otherwise we'd have lost a shoot day.

John

[K.C.]

Interesting point- neither of the manufacturers saw fit to mention the multi-tube heads in the testing discussions.  Since duration was a critical issue, I can only assume that it didn't produce the shortest duration, but that's only a guess.  I'll follow up and post the answers.  

For the record, I'd also love to do a complete system survey too- heads, reflectors, remotes, all that stuff.  Not enough hours in the day!  

From the Profoto site > Download > User Guides

Pro Twin Head: "When demands are even tougher, the Profoto ProTwin is available with two flash tubes that effectively double the performance. Used with a single generator, it can produce shorter flash durations by splitting half of the power to two flash tubes."

Acute 2 Twin Head: "The Acute2 twin is used to obtain even shorter flash duration, very quick recycling or to fire 4800 Ws out of one single head. An Acute2 twin has two flash tubes. As the flash duration is shorter at low power switch settings, and as only half of the desired power is used in each tube, consequently shorter flash duration is obtained.

If you require shorter flash duration and you for example need 1200 Ws, you connect the Acute2 twin to the B sockets on the Acute2 1200 generator and fire 600 Ws from each tube. The flash duration is shorter than if a standard Acute2 head is used. The flash duration at 1200 Ws with an Acute2 head is 1/560 while it is only 1/1000 with an Acute2 twin."


So they do mention it in the documentation.

[AlDoori]

More pricise:
Another wrong understanding towards the Broncolor powerpack is: You can set ANY flash duration at ANY output on the powerpack's menu.

indeed, you can not flash the scoro with maximum power 32oo ws using the shortest duration of t o.1 1/8ooo sec (t o.5 1/12ooo sec), there are limitations.
nota bene: you can also preselect colour temperature, with some limitations of course.

for normal use, colour temperature control should be left switched on to get optimal coulor, at any output, on all 3 channels.

the test was made by people who obviously do not know, understand or like bron equipment.
unfortunately, it was published with all its errors.

[UlfKrentz]

Yes, if you take a look at the spec battle page you can see those figures, claimed by the manufacturers-
http://www.h2hreviews.com/article/Lighting...pec-Battle.html

I think if you read the review a little more completely, you'll see we're looking at what these specs actually mean- the way the numbers are measured by the manufacturers, the so-called t0.1, t0.5 spec, is at the very least a subject of dispute.  We're trying to show what those specs actually look like in the photo at min. power as well as half-power.

Hi, interesting review. Only comparing specs is always difficult - interesting part is how does the image look like, so this test might help making decisions, though I think most people would consider a lot of facts, like kind of lightshapers, availibility of rent equipment, what brands are friends using etc.

I think there are a lot of advantages with the Scoro packs but I have to admit that I was disappointed comparing the flash duration at medium output. Comparing the packs should compare the same amount of flash energy, even if the profoto packs seem to be more "light efficient" with their lampbases. Measuring 1600J of power is 50% more energy than 1200J, that´s a lot regarding flash duration. I also noticed a color cast towards yellow with the bron packs tested at mid level, that made me think if it could be the color temp was not set to opt (the result would be longer flash duration). You can see a very consistent light output during the move of the wheel. I would have liked a more indept test with different color/flashduration settings on the scoro. You have a wide varity of setting options with this pack that were not tested or described. We also love the very low minimum output of only 3,3J which we indeed used a lot last week. But there are cons as well: Clicking down these menus to reach a simple function is a pain in the ... , but still very happy with the equipment.

Thanks for your review

Cheers Ulf

As somebody else already mentioned, bron offers frosted glass domes that make the light output very similar to profoto.

[teddillard]

From the Profoto site > Download > User Guides

Pro Twin Head: "When demands are even tougher, the Profoto ProTwin is available with two flash tubes that effectively double the performance. Used with a single generator, it can produce shorter flash durations by splitting half of the power to two flash tubes."

Acute 2 Twin Head: "The Acute2 twin is used to obtain even shorter flash duration, very quick recycling or to fire 4800 Ws out of one single head. An Acute2 twin has two flash tubes. As the flash duration is shorter at low power switch settings, and as only half of the desired power is used in each tube, consequently shorter flash duration is obtained.

If you require shorter flash duration and you for example need 1200 Ws, you connect the Acute2 twin to the B sockets on the Acute2 1200 generator and fire 600 Ws from each tube. The flash duration is shorter than if a standard Acute2 head is used. The flash duration at 1200 Ws with an Acute2 head is 1/560 while it is only 1/1000 with an Acute2 twin."


So they do mention it in the documentation.

Right- they're not saying the duration is shorter, just that you can get more power at the shortest duration...

[UlfKrentz]

Right- they're not saying the duration is shorter, just that you can get more power at the shortest duration...

?

The flash duration will approx. be nearly half the time than using a single tube head at the same output. And that´s what they are saying.

Cheers, Ulf

[teddillard]

?

The flash duration will approx. be nearly half the time than using a single tube head at the same output. And that´s what they are saying.

Cheers, Ulf

(note to self: don't post after only one cup of coffee in the morning)

 

...this has me wondering why it wasn't suggested.  I'll ask.

[teddillard]

Some feedback:

"Basically, the shutter is opening, the flash is going off, and then the shutter closes before the flash is done firing. The flash continues to go off, but the shutter is closed for part of the “exposure.”)" The order is wrong. When you see the shutter in the shot, it is because the second curtain is already partly closed when the flash goes off.

Fair enough, but do understand that was intended for someone with no understanding of flash sync as a one-paragraph introduction.  Even mentioning focal plane shutters would have opened another few cans of worms...    Thus the use of "basically".

"you get a strong shift in color, to blue. We were able to estimate it at around 1500K,". 1500° Kelvin is orange light, not blue.

I was referring to a 1500° shift- should probably change that to a -1500° shift I guess.  And how the heck do you make the ° thing?  

It would be worth adding that turning the Color Control off on the Broncolor would not be suitable for mixed light scenarios. I'd also be interested to know how this affects the CRI of the light.

Good point.  

The spec table appears to contain several errors.

Reviewing it, thanks again.

[teddillard]

+1

[UlfKrentz]

+1

This is silly. The Power output is set on your pack. If you set the pack to full power for example you will have 2400J of energy. You can fire this energy through a standard lampbase or through a twin lampbase. The light output will be the same - the flash duration will be approx. half the time. Period.
Another effect will be that each tube will only get half the power (here comes your math: 0,5+0,5=1) and are not used that heavy therefore. You can realise faster strobe series without stressing the tubes too much. We are using twin tube lampbases to achieve shorter flash duration and reduce tube ageing and are very happy with them.

Cheers, Ulf

[geesbert]

I use Profoto and am very happy with it.
I was always intrigued by Bron's lightformers, so I started to look into that system. Things like the satelites and the flooter are unique to bron. As i am doing mostly food photography, where my subjects wither under hot lights even faster and I have to control reflections in a very quick way it is necessary to be able to switch individual model lights on and off by the pack, not only by the head. that is not possible with the Scoros. once I rented a full Bron kit to do one shoot, and I sent my assistant literally running around the set to switch the individual model lights on and off. we decided afterwards that this was the deal breaker for us.

[photo570]

Same applies for both Bron Twin heads, and Profoto. This is the main reason for owning Bron Twin heads, that and running 6100ws out of an A8 pack through one head, not done often, but handy never the less.

Jason.

This is silly. The Power output is set on your pack. If you set the pack to full power for example you will have 2400J of energy. You can fire this energy through a standard lampbase or through a twin lampbase. The light output will be the same - the flash duration will be approx. half the time. Period.
Another effect will be that each tube will only get half the power (here comes your math: 0,5+0,5=1) and are not used that heavy therefore. You can realise faster strobe series without stressing the tubes too much. We are using twin tube lampbases to achieve shorter flash duration and reduce tube ageing and are very happy with them.

Cheers, Ulf

[BJNY]

I use Profoto and am very happy with it.
I was always intrigued by Bron's lightformers, so I started to look into that system. Things like the satelites and the flooter are unique to bron. As i am doing mostly food photography, where my subjects wither under hot lights even faster and I have to control reflections in a very quick way it is necessary to be able to switch individual model lights on and off by the pack, not only by the head. that is not possible with the Scoros. once I rented a full Bron kit to do one shoot, and I sent my assistant literally running around the set to switch the individual model lights on and off. we decided afterwards that this was the deal breaker for us.

Broncolor's latest ringlight with modeling lamps and fan-cooling is a standout for me,
with how easily the grids and accessories attach;
and how it converts from being used on a camera to their Para umbrella (I only wish it came in a bi-tube version)

I would think any flashhead with frosted pyrex could be used with a Satellite.

Elinchrom started the large fresnel trend with their S35, and Profoto has their ProFresnel, so Broncolor's Flooter is not unique.

Every Broncolor flashhead I've used in the past 20+ years has a modeling lamp on/off switch.
It's the triangular piece sticking up from the housing in this photo:

[AlDoori]

another small error in the data comparison.

the broncolor scoro a4s has a range from 32oo ws down to 3 ws.
the profoto a8 has a range from 24oo ws down to 5 ws.

so,
the scoro covers a range of 10 aperture intervals = 11 f-numbers.
the a8 covers a range of 9 aperture intervals =  10 f-numbers.

example:
if you use f 1:1 for the lowest output on each generator (3 respective 5 ws),
the f stop of the profoto a8 at 24oo ws is f 1:22.
the f stop of the bron scoro at 32oo ws is f 1:32.

not that it really matters...
 

[K.C.]

(note to self: don't post after only one cup of coffee in the morning)

 

...this has me wondering why it wasn't suggested.  I'll ask.

With all the noted errors and oversights in your review this has me wondering why bothered.

If you needed them to suggest testing twin heads you really don't have any business reviewing in the first place.

[teddillard]

With all the noted errors and oversights in your review this has me wondering why bothered.

If you needed them to suggest testing twin heads you really don't have any business reviewing in the first place.

Thanks, very kind.

FYI, I had the Product Managers for both systems working with me on both the systems, and the flash duration was one of our primary concentrations in the comparisons.  Again, why this wasn't brought up, I'm not sure, but even if it had the reality of putting together a review on any product is an endless trail of "what-ifs".  As you'll note, we elected to not address the light modeling accessories, a huge part of the decision to purchase into a system, for example.  The best we could try to do, without making the piece enormous, was to try to at least address the system at the "out of the box" stage- as we did with reflector coverage patterns.

http://www.h2hreviews.com/article/Lighting...r-Coverage.html

It's been correctly noted here that you can, in fact, add on domes (in that case) to make the Bron kit perform more like the Profoto.  You can, theoretically, make any kit do whatever you need, but that would not make a very informative review.  It's actually kind of interesting to me that nobody has mentioned the range of light modeling equipment between the two lines.  I'm wondering if that is something people would like to see.  Anybody?

My theory, for what it's worth, is that if the flash duration halves with multi-tube heads, then you can predict the duration comparison with a single tube head just fine, thank you.  Although interesting, it doesn't tell you anything new about the comparisons.  Even if they had brought it up, I'm not sure I would have seen fit to include it in the testing.

As far as errors and oversights- one of the challenges of this type of review is the distinct lack of standardization in published specs.  Sinar calls Ws. Joules, for example.  They measure duration in different ways.  They both rate the system power in electrical output, not light output.  Translating the published specs and catching every error was incredibly time consuming, and if we made errors, which I'm not yet convinced we did, it was not for lack of a lot of hard work.   On the relatively simple issue of Automatic Voltage Switching, for example, in spite of the published specs we got into a week-long email exchange with 6 people from both camps confirming the facts.  That one spec, alone.  That's the kind of work that goes into any review like this...

Sorry for the long reply, now I have had adequate coffee...