Hartblei cam review on LL

[Dick Roadnight]

I dont get the point so far.
Where is the advantage of using a Hartblei with a Canon T/S lens and decreased T/S movements compared to just using a tech camera with a propper MF lens from Schneider or Rodenstock?

It is impossible to mount most very short MFDVC lenses on traditional view cameras... they need to work out how to put a 60Mpx back on a P2 or P3 with very short lenses. (I have worked this out.)

Pros who have MFDVCs want a full range of movements with any lens, and they want fast flash sync for sun synchro with any lens.

With motorised slide, they could use the slide motor for shift or stitch, and it would help (for shift) if you could mount the digiback horizontal or vertical.

[Dick Roadnight]

Is the lens image circle that vignettes , or the mount? I am sure my Novoflex lenses will be OK. re image circle.

I am cusious too
I suspect it may actually be the copal shutter opening, since the viewer doesnt vignette as badly as the shot

I am going to send the Truewide to Keith to check. I am going to suggest he try to get his hands on the mamyia shutter!

Victor

When a shutter is attached to the back rather than the lens, you need a shutter opening not much bigger than the diagonal of the sensor, and, if you are using movements, the shutter moves with the back so, for shift (or slide) and stitch you can get a big picture with a relatively small shutter.

I have shutter-free aerial lenses with rear elements about 5 inches across, and the Schneider fine art Gold is only f14 if you have it without a shutter.

What size shutter are you using? (what shutter, number, and what opening?).

The Sinar lensboard shutters open much wider than the diagonal of 6 * 4.5 don"t they?

[Dick Roadnight]

Where is the advantage of using a Hartblei with a Canon T/S lens and decreased T/S movements compared to just using a tech camera with a propper MF lens from Schneider or Rodenstock?

Well perhaps because there is no 24lens with movements from either company ? You know that there is only the R 23HR which covers the P65, nothing else in that range, so if someone needs something wider the HC is an option.

The new Schneider 28 has spare image circle for movements, does it not, and with a 6 * 4.5 back and/or slide-and-stich, it would be a very wide lens... if you can find or make a camera with a full range of movements that you can put it on.

[Christopher]

Where is the advantage of using a Hartblei with a Canon T/S lens and decreased T/S movements compared to just using a tech camera with a propper MF lens from Schneider or Rodenstock?


The new Schneider 28 has spare image circle for movements, does it not, and with a 6 * 4.5 back and/or slide-and-stich, it would be a very wide lens... if you can find or make a camera with a full range of movements that you can put it on.

Yes the new schneider, WHEN it comes. However I haven't seen either specs nor a price so far.

[vgogolak]

Yes especially the nice 24 from Schneider, which even comes with build in dark corners on a P65 :-P

Christopher

Interesting comment. I have P65+ with 35 Digitar and 47mm Schneider. Thay great-sharp even. What's with the 24? maybe you are NOT talking about the 24mm Digitar. I thought it covered FF (but could not stand shift as well as the 23mm Rodenstock.

Victor

[CBarrett]

Anxiously awaiting to pounce on new Schneider 28 for the Arca.

Visual:  28mm = Cute little bunny / CB = Cheetah

[Christopher]

Anxiously awaiting to pounce on new Schneider 28 for the Arca.

Visual:  28mm = Cute little bunny / CB = Cheetah

Yep the new 28mm could be THE thing. Let's wait and see.

[mattlap2]

Interesting that no-one has mentioned the Sinar M system, which already does this trick (albeit it only with Nikon lenses, not Canon afaik:

http://www.sinar.ch/en/products/shutters/177-sinar-m

Graham,

The Nikon Lens adapter for the M camera has been a dead issue for 3 years now.  They would not cover the 54H so they were discontinued.

[paratom]

Well perhaps because there is no 24lens with movements from either company ? You know that there is only the R 23HR which covers the P65, nothing else in that range, so if someone needs something wider the HC is an option.

In additon I would have loved to see the Hartblei 40, 85 and 120 T/S lens on thet camera. They are extremely good on the 1DsMk3 and would probably do well on a P65.

Ok I understand. You gain at the wide end. I am surprized that the Canon 17mm has such a large image circle. It allmost sound slike some magic that they make a 17mm which allows to shift even with a large sensor and Schneider and Rodenstock cant do it. Did I oversee something?

[rainer_v]

Ok I understand. You gain at the wide end. I am surprized that the Canon 17mm has such a large image circle. It allmost sound slike some magic that they make a 17mm which allows to shift even with a large sensor and Schneider and Rodenstock cant do it. Did I oversee something?

 ..... and you might gain lenses as the canon 85/1,2 or other stuff which will look weird and very interesting on a larger sensor ....

[archivue]

the 28 schneider will have a 90mm image circle at f8 and extremely high resolution of 80 line pairs... let wait to see the distorsion...

[Carsten W]

..... and you might gain lenses as the canon 85/1,2 or other stuff which will look weird and very interesting on a larger sensor ....

Over on fredmiranda there was a guy using an FD 85/1,2 on a Mamiya 645 with film. Wild look.

[JeffKohn]

So if I'm reading the review correctly, shots with the 17mm TS-E have to be cropped to roughly the same FOV as the 24 TS-E due to poor image quality at the edges. So really this camera is a one-trick pony if the 24 TS-E is the only compelling lens for it (and that assumes performance holds up on a full-sized MF sensor).

Giving the pricing, I guess I just don't see the appeal. It seems to me that something like the Arca-Swiss M-Line 2 or even one of the "pancake" cameras with a tilt adapter would make a lot more sense. Yes 24mm is wide, but how often do you need to go that wide, to justify buying a new camera just for 24mm (especially if the upcoming Schneider 28mm delivers on its promises).

[BobDavid]

So if I'm reading the review correctly, shots with the 17mm TS-E have to be cropped to roughly the same FOV as the 24 TS-E due to poor image quality at the edges. So really this camera is a one-trick pony if the 24 TS-E is the only compelling lens for it (and that assumes performance holds up on a full-sized MF sensor).

Giving the pricing, I guess I just don't see the appeal. It seems to me that something like the Arca-Swiss M-Line 2 or even one of the "pancake" cameras with a tilt adapter would make a lot more sense. Yes 24mm is wide, but how often do you need to go that wide, to justify buying a new camera just for 24mm (especially if the upcoming Schneider 28mm delivers on its promises).

Agreed. I think the HCam is preposterous. I wonder how reliable the motor would be over a five year period.

[paratom]

To me it still looks more like an experimentel camera, like checking out if something is possible or not.

[Dick Roadnight]

To me it still looks more like an experimentel camera, like checking out if something is possible or not.

There are some good features:

Focal plane shutter for almost any lens/back combination... but I can do that more cost-effectively with leaf shutters.

Adaptor for almost any lens/back combination... but if I wanted to put my Hasselblad V lenses on my Hasselblad H back, I would want movements.

Super-wide capability, but without movements for Apo-digitar lenses... the Schneider 28 would be cheaper (I expect) but would it go on a Sinar P2 with movements?

[Dick Roadnight]

Stefan, CEO Hartblei was at Manchester today.

He said that he makes cameras to users' requirements.

I told him that lenses with rear elements several inches from the canon lens mount would vignette... and he said that if anyone needed a bigger hole in the front of the camera, he would do it for them, or make a version for view cameras.

(I have two aerial lenses and two Novoflex lenses with rear elements inches or feet from the camera, and no shutter)

We also discussed a simpler version for cameras with live view.

Michael might prefere me not to mention it, but the Mamiya shutter on the Hartblei would not work today!!!

[michael]

Michael might prefere me not to mention it, but the Mamiya shutter on the Hartblei would not work today!!!

No product is trade show proof.  

Michael

[Dustbak]

Interesting that no-one has mentioned the Sinar M system, which already does this trick (albeit it only with Nikon lenses, not Canon afaik:

http://www.sinar.ch/en/products/shutters/177-sinar-m

Sinar M
Cambo Mini-Wide
Kapturegroup Truewide
DigiFlex I/II

All of these did facilitate using digibacks with 35mm lenses. I have used 3 of them already 4 years ago. I still sometimes use the Digiflex II. Nothing new under the sun, not even the knowledge about the actual image circle of 35mm lenses.

[evgeny]

Sinar M
Cambo Mini-Wide
Kapturegroup Truewide
DigiFlex I/II

All of these did facilitate using digibacks with 35mm lenses. I have used 3 of them already 4 years ago. I still sometimes use the Digiflex II. Nothing new under the sun, not even the knowledge about the actual image circle of 35mm lenses.

I think the Nikon module was announced a long ago, but still not available for the Sinar M.
How do you attach 35mm Nikon lenses to Sinar M?