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Author Topic: Leica S2 Images  (Read 49368 times)

pcunite

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« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2009, 09:23:04 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Notes from the battlefield.
...SKIP...

bcooter,
Your opinion is highly valued and I thank you really for saving me allot of money and embarrassment. I suspected this was what using MFD was really like. Yes, one guy with camera and one girl in front of a white background is simple stuff and if your shooting hair or makeup for Dillard's I assume you would need the resolution. Also when shooting landscapes who is standing behind you looking at their watch? But this whole notion of image quality or nothing business that gets trotted out all the time is sadly missing a warning label "I hate using the camera and I only need it for the res, but because I spent $40,000 I have noticed that it has really nice dynamic too".

I am shooting for an ad campaign myself and shot one of them today. Three hours outside on location and the Canon never missed a beat even with the battery on it's last bar! With my $30K saved I can buy the lights I have always wanted, and if a customer ever complains I can tell them to foot the bill for a p65+ if they think they need it. Why should I pay for it and take all the risk of ownership?
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ziocan

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« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2009, 11:58:58 pm »

Quote from: cyberean
can one still buy a $40K Porche?
that is so '90s ...
I think a cayman is 45K. pretty close though.
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2009, 12:04:28 am »

Quote from: TMARK
I think it will  be a hit with the "advanced amateur" types.  All of the drawbacks of the S2 are not that big of a deal if you don't shoot for commerce.  The new "Age of Reason" brought on by the market doesn't touch these guys.  Its all emotion, which is fine.  I do think that leica made the switch full tilt to an LVMH type Luxury Goods maker.  Which is fine too. They might even stay in business that way.

All things considered, I see many of the guys who would seriously consider buying a S2 mostly end up investing in stock instead.

Cheers,
Bernard

gwhitf

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« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2009, 12:09:59 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
All things considered, I see many of the guys who would seriously consider buying a S2 mostly end up investing in stock instead.

If you'd taken the purchase price of a full S2 system about eight months ago, and taken that amount and bought Apple stock, you'd have your money back, AND a complete S2 system. But of course, hindsight is 20/20.
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pschefz

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« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2009, 12:59:47 am »

Quote from: gdwhalen
And again, all photographers want a camera for what and how THEY shoot.  Can't build that.  Camera's, all of them have their pluses and minuses.  You shoot volume with good quality.  That is how YOU shoot.  Not how everyone shoots.  That's my one wish about this place.  People would understand that their way isn't the only way and leave some flexibility in their discussions and opinions with others.    

But congrats to you.  Nice to see you so busy.  I could never shoot that way.  Have no desire to shoot that way.  But whatever works for each individual is what should guide THEM on their purchases.  But leave room for the rest of us and understand that every job has a tool but no one tool can do every job.


you are absolutely correct...everybody should shoot with whatever gets them the shot....

but there is no logical reason for shooting DMF anymore today....not for any commercial or editorial work....DSLR files are more then good enough, the handling, speed, workflow, ease of use, ease of moving between shots.....DMF is just no competition....but of course why shouldn't someone WANT to shoot DMF? no problem....just don't try to make a point why it is necessary....or more professional.....

some people still shoot film...and love it...and like shooting it and they get a ton of work....it works for them...but you won't hear them trying to convince anyone that the workflow is better....or shooting is faster....and i am sure they are not shooting the work described before....because any sane client will want digital....

i am starting to wonder who and what DMF is really for these days.....other then pixelpeepers....and people who can afford it and like going on walks with their toys (god bless them...)....even architecture guys these days are switching to d3x with T/S lenses....
and no P65 will ever give you the feel of a 8x10 b&w....or those huge polaroid cameras....
i have a friend who shoots amazing landscapes and scenes for ads (cars,...) used to do that stuff on 4x5....moved to phase....still uses it because he is used to a certain way of working and movements.....he is shooting more and more with DSLR.....he always shot a lot with DSLR (for angles, lightchanges,....) but now that the quality is there, he just uses those files for final work....sometimes, sometimes not...but even for him it is a lot easier to just snap the shot then to turn around with the tripod, bla,bla,bla.....

event, journalists, wedding, sports, general editorial, stock.....all DSLR.....so which market is left? high fashion? terry richardson? nope...steven klein? shoots red and 5DII...some still shoot film.....

i guess i would like to know who the target market is other then serious amateurs...people who follow LR and actually read this forum.....

i think it is really wrong to tell someone on the fence today about a camera to look at DMF...even that new mamiya/aptus5 deal for 10000......regardless who the buyer is and what they will shoot.....a 5DII will be a better solution.....because the extra 7000 buys lights, assistants, models, trips,....any field you want to shoot in, your pics will be better because you will have spent the money wiser....unless of course you just want to shoot that tree outside your door and look at the file at 100% and get strangely aroused (a combination of what you see, what you think you are seeing and the high of having spent a ton of cash on it....)...just don't make a print because you might not see a difference.....also don't question your purchase just because your niece comes by and later emails you a better image of that tree from her iphone...because she shot it when the light was perfect....and you wife actually prints that shot because she prefers it....and gets annoyed with your blabbering about locked shadows and lack of detail and blown/blooming highlights....


my next purchase will be that new 40/2 cosina for my 5DII (without grip)....small enough to really always have it with me....and TAKE PICTURES
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stewarthemley

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« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2009, 04:15:01 am »

Quote from: pschefz
...there is no logical reason for shooting DMF anymore today....not for any commercial or editorial work....DSLR files are more then good enough...

Wrong. I had an architect client last year who suddenly started to specify he wanted BIG prints to look good close up. My 1DS3 couldn't hack it for him but my 39mb MFD could. Without that I'd have lost a very good client. He has everything shot on the MFB  and has already paid a tenth of the cost of the back. And with less time spent by me trying to get details out of shadows, etc, I have saved more time/money - even considering the faster shooting with the Canon. Of course, speed of use, etc etc are different but when you need big prints close up it's no contest.
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2009, 05:40:55 am »

Quote from: stewarthemley
Wrong. I had an architect client last year who suddenly started to specify he wanted BIG prints to look good close up... And with less time spent by me trying to get details out of shadows, etc, I have saved more time/money - even considering the faster shooting with the Canon. Of course, speed of use, etc etc are different but when you need big prints close up it's no contest.
Like the argument for 120 over 35mm - it is quick and easy to get an adequate result with MFD, without stitching, spending hour on the computer...
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Rob C

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« Reply #87 on: October 25, 2009, 06:32:51 am »

bcooter

One thing, man, you do write with a passion.

Glad to see you drowning in work - I mean that in a good way.

Rob C

gdwhalen

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« Reply #88 on: October 25, 2009, 07:54:33 am »

Quote from: pschefz
you are absolutely correct...everybody should shoot with whatever gets them the shot....

but there is no logical reason for shooting DMF anymore today....not for any commercial or editorial work....DSLR files are more then good enough, the handling, speed, workflow, ease of use, ease of moving between shots.....DMF is just no competition....but of course why shouldn't someone WANT to shoot DMF? no problem....just don't try to make a point why it is necessary....or more professional.....

some people still shoot film...and love it...and like shooting it and they get a ton of work....it works for them...but you won't hear them trying to convince anyone that the workflow is better....or shooting is faster....and i am sure they are not shooting the work described before....because any sane client will want digital....

i am starting to wonder who and what DMF is really for these days.....other then pixelpeepers....and people who can afford it and like going on walks with their toys (god bless them...)....even architecture guys these days are switching to d3x with T/S lenses....
and no P65 will ever give you the feel of a 8x10 b&w....or those huge polaroid cameras....
i have a friend who shoots amazing landscapes and scenes for ads (cars,...) used to do that stuff on 4x5....moved to phase....still uses it because he is used to a certain way of working and movements.....he is shooting more and more with DSLR.....he always shot a lot with DSLR (for angles, lightchanges,....) but now that the quality is there, he just uses those files for final work....sometimes, sometimes not...but even for him it is a lot easier to just snap the shot then to turn around with the tripod, bla,bla,bla.....

event, journalists, wedding, sports, general editorial, stock.....all DSLR.....so which market is left? high fashion? terry richardson? nope...steven klein? shoots red and 5DII...some still shoot film.....

i guess i would like to know who the target market is other then serious amateurs...people who follow LR and actually read this forum.....

i think it is really wrong to tell someone on the fence today about a camera to look at DMF...even that new mamiya/aptus5 deal for 10000......regardless who the buyer is and what they will shoot.....a 5DII will be a better solution.....because the extra 7000 buys lights, assistants, models, trips,....any field you want to shoot in, your pics will be better because you will have spent the money wiser....unless of course you just want to shoot that tree outside your door and look at the file at 100% and get strangely aroused (a combination of what you see, what you think you are seeing and the high of having spent a ton of cash on it....)...just don't make a print because you might not see a difference.....also don't question your purchase just because your niece comes by and later emails you a better image of that tree from her iphone...because she shot it when the light was perfect....and you wife actually prints that shot because she prefers it....and gets annoyed with your blabbering about locked shadows and lack of detail and blown/blooming highlights....


my next purchase will be that new 40/2 cosina for my 5DII (without grip)....small enough to really always have it with me....and TAKE PICTURES


Maybe some working photographers are making enough money to have the lights, trips, assistants, models and still shot DMF.  And maybe some working photographers have clients that do appreciate and need large displays.  And maybe some photographers have 3-4 systems depending on what the end use is.  I'm not sure anyone in here has ever stated that you MUST only function with one system.  Maybe most people in this forum are talking about DMF because this IS a DMS forum.  Maybe there are lots of reasons both visceral and practical for people to shoot MF.  Summing up the world views from only one perspective may be convenient for some but certainly doesn't make it accurate for everyone.  Some people, seemingly like yourself, want to be fast and easy.  Maybe others like going slow and methodical.  Maybe the calculating experience of shooting DMF is as important to them as the quick and easy approach is to you?  Maybe, just maybe the world is full of different people with different needs and desires and those needs are diametrically opposed to your own.  I love Cranache and have very little use for Van Gogh.  Go figure.

BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #89 on: October 25, 2009, 10:11:56 am »

Quote from: gwhitf
If you'd taken the purchase price of a full S2 system about eight months ago, and taken that amount and bought Apple stock, you'd have your money back, AND a complete S2 system. But of course, hindsight is 20/20.

Funny you should say that, I actually did buy Apple stock when it was at 135...

But that is exactly my point, if you think that way you don't stop here and feel that there still enough potential for AAPL and many other stocks to keep going up. I believe that most of the people who've got the dough to get a S2 do so because they have been mostly thinking that way.

Cheers,
Bernard

pschefz

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« Reply #90 on: October 25, 2009, 11:59:48 am »

Quote from: stewarthemley
Wrong. I had an architect client last year who suddenly started to specify he wanted BIG prints to look good close up. My 1DS3 couldn't hack it for him but my 39mb MFD could. Without that I'd have lost a very good client. He has everything shot on the MFB  and has already paid a tenth of the cost of the back. And with less time spent by me trying to get details out of shadows, etc, I have saved more time/money - even considering the faster shooting with the Canon. Of course, speed of use, etc etc are different but when you need big prints close up it's no contest.

i think that is the perfect exception to the rule...and DMF is there when you really need it....a lot of people already own a back and there is no reason NOT to use it....but one architect asking for large prints probably won't pay for a 50000+ system....but he might pay for the rental of that system....
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pschefz

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« Reply #91 on: October 25, 2009, 12:19:12 pm »

Quote from: gdwhalen
Maybe some working photographers are making enough money to have the lights, trips, assistants, models and still shot DMF.  And maybe some working photographers have clients that do appreciate and need large displays.  And maybe some photographers have 3-4 systems depending on what the end use is.  I'm not sure anyone in here has ever stated that you MUST only function with one system.  Maybe most people in this forum are talking about DMF because this IS a DMS forum.  Maybe there are lots of reasons both visceral and practical for people to shoot MF.  Summing up the world views from only one perspective may be convenient for some but certainly doesn't make it accurate for everyone.  Some people, seemingly like yourself, want to be fast and easy.  Maybe others like going slow and methodical.  Maybe the calculating experience of shooting DMF is as important to them as the quick and easy approach is to you?  Maybe, just maybe the world is full of different people with different needs and desires and those needs are diametrically opposed to your own.  I love Cranache and have very little use for Van Gogh.  Go figure.


if there was a twin lens rollei with a canon sensor in the back...that is what i would be shooting....i have shot more and longer with RZs and fuji 680s then with SLRs and never shot SLR with film.....still don't really like the format that much....
but i have also owned and shot everything from a leaf valeo to phase P30 and there really is nothing from working with these backs that i miss....shooting film with the 680 was a lot easier then shooting a P30 with the RZ....a LOT....and really the H1/2/3 is just a HUGE HEAVY DSLR to me and the 5DII does everything faster and much easier and the files look GREAT....
i am all about slow and methodical working but there is just something wrong when i cannot take the camera plug it in set everything up and have to make sure that the client does NOT see the first images because the color is horrible and the whole thing just looks wrong.....i am talking about DMF here....
talking about large screens....the screen on the 5DII actually almost put and end to tethered shooting for me....because i haven't seen a shot that does not look good on it....like in the old days of polaroid.....everybody knew this wasn't final film....but everybody wanted to see something visually pleasing to feel good about the work they are doing...not every brutal pore and red blotch that simply takes over the screen, no matter how much you adjust and no matter how great the light and composition is....of course everybody knows about post production and such but really....nobody should see themselves full screen from a DMF back raw out of the camera...

of course you can simply run a whole bunch of actions and setting and filters on every file....all you need is a powerplant for the CPU alone.....

there is no reason at all for anyone to throw out their DMF back or sell it or not use it...there is also no reason to work fast and furious with a 5DII....

and everybody who wants a S2 to go with their watch or car....or they feel that they need that toy to create better images....please...please...the longer leica is alive the better for all of us....but it has nothing to do with photography....  
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stevesanacore

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« Reply #92 on: October 25, 2009, 03:21:54 pm »

Quote from: ziocan
I think a cayman is 45K. pretty close though.

In you dreams. Here in the US most new Caymans go out the door for over 70-80K

So the Leica S2 is actually cheaper. Not too bad when you look at it that way.
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bcooter

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« Reply #93 on: October 25, 2009, 04:11:30 pm »

Quote from: stevesanacore
In you dreams. Here in the US most new Caymans go out the door for over 70-80K

So the Leica S2 is actually cheaper. Not too bad when you look at it that way.

Paying retail?

http://tinyurl.com/ylc823l

BC


« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 04:57:04 pm by bcooter »
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TMARK

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« Reply #94 on: October 25, 2009, 06:19:09 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Paying retail?

http://tinyurl.com/ylc823l

BC

I like it better than my Boxter, but I feel that I can drive the Boxter like I stole it from someone I don't like.  

My M8 looks good on tan leather seats, too.
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cyberean

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« Reply #95 on: October 25, 2009, 07:09:06 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
I like it better than my Boxter, but I feel that I can drive the Boxter like I stole it from someone I don't like.  

My M8 looks good on tan leather seats, too.
perhaps some day you may get a "real" Porche ...


[/i]
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Rob C

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« Reply #96 on: October 26, 2009, 04:31:09 am »

Quote from: cyberean
perhaps some day you may get a "real" Porche ...


[/i]




cyberean

I noticed that you retouched out the large key that normally projects from the lid at the rear; what would we do without Photoshop! Probably buy Italian, I guess.

Rob C

TMARK

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« Reply #97 on: October 26, 2009, 10:58:30 am »

Quote from: cyberean
perhaps some day you may get a "real" Porche ...


[/i]

That is a fetching late 70's or early 80's 911.  It has the Fuchs wheels.  I thought about getting an older 911 but I wanted a car I can drive hard and not worry about parking on the street.  I don't need a hobby, but I bet the buyers for the S2, they need a hobby.

The a la carte Ostrich Penis leather is the way to go with the S2, in deep brown with a matching leather case. Perhaps coordinate with other lux goods makers on colors?
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hubell

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« Reply #98 on: October 26, 2009, 11:14:08 am »

Quote from: TMARK
That is a fetching late 70's or early 80's 911.  It has the Fuchs wheels.  I thought about getting an older 911 but I wanted a car I can drive hard and not worry about parking on the street.  I don't need a hobby, but I bet the buyers for the S2, they need a hobby.

The a la carte Ostrich Penis leather is the way to go with the S2, in deep brown with a matching leather case. Perhaps coordinate with other lux goods makers on colors?

Since you seem to know a lot about Ostrich penises, would the deep brown be  the natural color or would it have to dyed that color?

TMARK

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« Reply #99 on: October 26, 2009, 11:41:27 am »

Quote from: hcubell
Since you seem to know a lot about Ostrich penises, would the deep brown be  the natural color or would it have to dyed that color?

Oh, yeas, its a natural deep brown. Really breath taking.  It goes well with my elephant foot brolly holder, elephant foot stools, and white seal leather couch I bougfht custom from B&B Italia.  I am a connisour of the finest (OK, at least EXPENSIVE), things.
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