Leaf Aptus 5 coming

[DanielStone]

the thing I cannot realize is why Rodenstock and schneider(well now schneider with Phase) didn't enter the MFD digital-designed lenses, partnering with MF manufacturers like Phase and Leaf earlier. I mean, hasn't it only been in the last few years since the high megapixel backs have been rolling out that people really start to look at upping the lens designs for the higher resolving power of the sensors from the film-era, which worked totally fine for film? But now that we have digital, many think that the film lenses need to meet the dumpster for a date, but sadly, its true. Many of these lenses can resolve high enough for most work. Now, I've seen some terrific pictures( I hate calling them images) that have been taken on DB's(mainly my friends Aptus 75s) with film LF/MF lenses. these files are clean, super sharp(recent LF schneider and Nikkor glass), and don't seem to have the problem with color fringing like some of these new 'digital' lenses do. you'd think that the manufacturers would release a 'flawless' product for such an insane amount of money they charge?

why wouldn't rodenstock and schneider have jumped into the foray of MFD lens design earlier? Now, I know that there are going to be people who think that Hassy V glass and 6000 series glass is perfectly fine for the sensors, but compared to the new digitar lenses, they simply don't compare IMO, yes, In My Opinion.

imagine if they thought: "lets design the best we can for 1/2 the price". they could do it. will they eventually? not likely. regrettably.....

I still shoot film primarily for my work (4x5 and 6x7), and have drum scans done(when my budget can afford it, i have to eat :munch:

it is exciting to see all this glorious competition between these companies, trying to 'one-up' each other with every new model. I can't afford it though, and I don't know that even if I could, I would buy it.

just my .02c

-Dan

[yaya]

Yair, do you have any info on whether those Mamiya DL28 and DL33 packages will eventually come with a DF body instead of an AFDIII body (like they do now)?  And also, any word on a Mamiya DL22 package that would include a DF body and this new Aptus-II 5 back?

I believe I saw a press release somewhere from Mamiya US about their new DM line with 22-56 MP and optional DF cameras at the higher end, you should check with MAC.

[yaya]

Hi Chris,

Does the promotion include the option of the new 645DF Body and Aptus II 5 ?

Add another €1,000 for a Phase One 645DF body and an 80mm LS lens

[RobertJ]

I believe I saw a press release somewhere from Mamiya US about their new DM line with 22-56 MP and optional DF cameras at the higher end, you should check with MAC.

Cool, I found it, thanks: http://www.photographyblog.com/news/mamiya...m_28_dm33_dm56/

[erick.boileau]

Hasselblad  keeps on with its 50, 60 , 100 MP , why did they stop their H3D II 22mp ?  , they could now do a H4D 22

[yaya]

Hasselblad  keeps on with its 50, 60 , 100 MP , why did they stop their H3D II 22mp ?  , they could now do a H4D 22

The KAF-22000 sensor has been out of production for quite a long time

[bcooter]

The KAF-22000 sensor has been out of production for quite a long time

Why would they keep a 22mp sensor around?

No offense meant, but 22mp on a 48x36 back was for me a moire machine.  Pattern moire, not just color.

Could have just be the perfect storm, but I saw a lot of perfect storms.

In fact more megapixels to fight moire has and probably always will be a large selling point for the makers to go to higher count sensors.



BC

[rolleiflexpages]

Having said that, Rollei's were considered prestige as you had to have a bag full of them as one body rarely made through a roll before it broke down.

You could get by with one Hassy body, they actually use to be reliable.

Well, that may be your experience but mine is the opposite. Sorry...

[rolleiflexpages]

I'm still shooting the 6008AF  - love it. Love the lenses for this system.   Though everything just keeps working great on my 6008 AF, I would have eventually migrated to the Hy6/AFi and may still if someone picks it back up.

Yair - how come Leaf never made backs for the Rollei 6000 system?

Hi Eric, got my new Hy6 from Franke & Heidecke just a few weeks ago. FYI, Franke & Heidecke is still doing its business and the prospects for continued activity look good. Also, Sinar has announced continued full support for the Hy6. I believe this system is not dead at all.

On the 6008 AF, compatible digital backs are only made by Sinar and PhaseOne (there was/is a OEM'ed Rollei DB20p back, which is a PhaseOne P20, and newer PhaseOne backs can be ordered with 6008 AF mount through the dealer).

Pascal

[stevesanacore]

I'll begin this with sorry for the long ramble.

Yesterday, had a semi low pressured shoot, both interior location then beach location.

For whatever reason I thought I shoot it with the Contax and Phase rather than the Canons and Nikons.

I haven't really touched the Contax in 9 months, except to shoot an image, then say to heck with it and shoot the Canons, so not to be tempted I didn't even bring the Canons as backup.

Also I wanted to shoot low horizontal so the waist level finder is much easier on me and the subject so after a day I have a few notes, let me look . . .  I wrote them somewhere on an old kodak film box . . . ok found them.

Note to Phase.
Get rid of those four "soft" buttons, either that or give us a way to lock them out.  It took me a few minutes to "remember" what they all did, but shooting low, knees in the sand on the beach and placing the camera in my lap always turned something on like the histogram or some grayed out stuff telling me about the file.  Speaking of 4 buttons, who thought up the zoom in feature to check focus.  OK I know the lcd is limited in use, I know it's small, but its like playing a pong game with a  grand theft auto controller trying to figure out how to move that little cursor around to check focus.

Somebody please loan Phase a 5d2 to see that focus check button on the back.   Two clicks, boom-boom, one move and you can see everything.  It's so easy it's crazy easy.

Note to Contax (or whoever owns Contax).
I forgot what a great camera the Contax is and the lovely noise it makes when you use the waist level finder.  It just smooth, click, smooth, click.
The lenses are super sharp without a bunch of mumbo jumbo software correction features and the camera is so rock solid is nuts.  I know somebody smart probably looked at the medium format market and thought uh-uh, we ain't going down that road anymore, but come on, if Phase can spend the money to resurrect the plastic Mamiya, if anyone could contemplate saving the half built HY6, then there had to be some market for the Contax.  Waist level finder, right angle grip, smooth as buttah shutter and mirror.  Who the hell let that camera disappear?

Note to Phase One Software guys.
An assistant did me a "favor" and tethered me to version 4.  I haven't tethered to version 4 ever except an early test when it came out and realized I wasn't going to beta test this thing until it got to version 5 point 7 something but yesterday I looked at the computer and  instead of that familiar no nonsense white screen I saw that grey thing that has 24 tabs and thought well since it's running I'd give it a try and every-time I changed lenses, it would disconnect the camera.  I bought Phase for the stability of the software and tethering and though I gotta admit I'm not a version 4 expert, just changing lenses shouldn't shut it down.

Last night when I processed the files, I thought ok I'd try version 4, but they just looked prettier, (I know that covers a lot of territory) in 3.78 so I used what I know, life was easy and I made the deadline.

Once again, somebody please loan phase a Canon with that EOS utility disk.  I know it's dumb tethering software but anyone that owns an Iphone can learn to work it in about 3 minutes.  Version 4 must take a class to really learn it . . . a very long class.

Note to anyone buying a medium format back.
Buy the p21+ and old Aptus 22, the Hasselblad p21 version (whatever that is) and some stickers that say P900, or Aptus 656 and stop worrying about spending twenty gazillion dollars.  That back shoots a beautiful file, is detailed and unless you spend years with your nose on a 30" screen it shoots really pretty, really film-like (i know that also covers a lot of territory).
In fact spend another $100 on one of those dog shock collars.  Every-time you think about "upgrading" just hit the button and knock yourself to the floor.  

Since most people reading this are photographers it will take a year or so of shock training to understand you don't really need 8 billion pixels and have to sell the car just to own a medium format back that works.   Nobody will know the difference and you'll have a lot more time to shoot rather than learn a bunch of stuff you don't need to learn anyway.

Note to self.
Shoot more with the P21+ and sell the p30+.    The difference is just night and day when shooting.  The p21+ just shoots when you press the button, the p30+ you shoot and count 1 thousand one one thou...click,
Put a spam blocker that stops all Calumet and Phase offers.  Don't temp myself to buy anything other than more batteries for the contax.

Last note to Phase.
How about a firmware upgrade to give us a black and white option on the lcd?  I know the lcd sucks, I know it's hard to tell it's color anyway, but yesterday the AD wanted to see the shot in black and white and I had to say naw there's no black and white function on here. but don't worry I'll do it when I process.  Every camera on the planet has a black and white function.

Please throw away that paper mask that comes with the back.  If you put it where it belongs (under the ground glass) everything is back focused.  If you put it on top, it bows and of course doesn't give exact framing. Come one guys, stop being cheap, at least put Bill Maxwells phone number in the Phase One box so you can get the cropping without having to jury rig black photo tape.

Now please, please don't get rid of version 3.  I know it's old, I know it's got a white background and the type design came from a ms-dos word processor, but it works and if it does crash when you shoot 500 files to a folder at least it starts back up fast and doesn't lose anything.

Version 4 is so heavy so many tabs nobody has time for it under even a light pressured project.  

Note to all camera makers.
Go to Samy's with a wobbly TV tray under your arm.  Sit it up and put every camera on the tray and shoot a frame.  Watch the TV tray jump.  Then do this with the Contax and notice how smooth it is.

Then try to change the Fstop and shutter on every camera made and realize  some knobs goes one way, another wheel the other, then try the contax.  It's got a real shutter dial  with numbers a real F stop ring on the lens (also with numbers).

That's the goal.

Second note to self.

Do not buy any more cameras.  What I own works, stop messing around.  Go to the Pit Bull shop in East LA and buy that shock collar.

Spend more time using what I got, what I know and less time in front of the computer learning something that doesn't really change anything.

Since medium format wants to live in the film era of cameras, then fine, I'll just treat it like a film camera.

Shoot more with the p21+.


BC

Best argument yet for me not bothering with MF backs for anything but personal work or as a hobby.

[bcooter]

Best argument yet for me not bothering with MF backs for anything but personal work or as a hobby.

Actually, I didn't mean to say medium format doesn't have a place for commerce, I just think from a p30 to a p40+ your not changing anything that much in the final image.

Medium format really is like a film camera, probably because their legacy is based on film cameras, at least from the film plane forward.

Given that, just shoot it like you shot film, take what comes and don't get too caught up in pixel peeping, ca, blooming defecation or anything that takes your thoughts away from the photograph and puts it onto the box on top of the tripod.

Where all of this falls down is when we compare medium format next to a modern dslr which offers everything from fast frames rates, mega detailed lcds and even video.

Those are the leaps and bounds cameras, but once again it doesn't mean that if your taking a traditional still photograph a traditional film type of camera with a digital back is not rewarding.

It also is nice to look at that 4:3 crop.  It looks like stills, acts like stills and to some extent takes me back to an era I enjoyed.

Now, if I was to do it all again, I'd probably own different cameras for different reasons.  I like the way that Hasselblad company markets and presents itself, love their website and Victor magazine and feel that there is still some legacy left over from the Victor days, including an F2 lens and a waist level finder.   Maybe not a lot, but some.

So IMO there is a place for a medium format camera, but the conditions and the mindset have to be right.

In fact if I was Hasselblad, I'd forget about talking digital and start talking photograhic art.  Sell the digital cameras as they sold the film cameras, with the legacy, the quality and the history all part of the package.

Oh yea, also sell the skin tones, cause the only time I tested a blad it had the prettiest skin tones of all out of the camera.  I didn't go that direction because the blad I used was early production and slow and Phocus was not out yet and though I thought Flexcolor was ok, it wasn't what I wanted for high production, but anyway, those skin tones were nice.

BC

[EricWHiss]

Hi Eric, got my new Hy6 from Franke & Heidecke just a few weeks ago. FYI, Franke & Heidecke is still doing its business and the prospects for continued activity look good. Also, Sinar has announced continued full support for the Hy6. I believe this system is not dead at all.

On the 6008 AF, compatible digital backs are only made by Sinar and PhaseOne (there was/is a OEM'ed Rollei DB20p back, which is a PhaseOne P20, and newer PhaseOne backs can be ordered with 6008 AF mount through the dealer).

Pascal

Hi Pascal,

Yes, I also have the phase db20p back on my 6008AF.  It's a great set-up.      Also I can concur with you on reliability  - certainly not what i've seen.   Recently I borrowed a 40 year old 2.8F Rollei TLR from a friend that had not been used for a dozen years or more and put about 50 rolls of film through it.    Everything worked including the meter - perfect and what a joy to not need batteries or anything else.  I was really impressed.   I've had very few problems with my 6000 series gear too.  

Eric

[hauxon]

Not a bad price $8000.00. This will kill the ZD & drive down the price of used Aptus 22 & 54s backs. The Phase body is that the AFDIII? If so how much is the DF body that is just released with this package?
Denis

Ehhhh the Mamiya ZD back costs only $3700 new.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5859...el_Digital.html

[Williamson Images]

I think the new Aptus II 5 seems like a great backup solution for those with 6's, 7's, or 10's.  Or for those wanting to separate themselves from the 35mm look for the same dollars as a new D3x.

When did you think that you could afford to have two backs?  I'm not rich or crazy.  I just think it may be easier to have the two backs on location and to be able to leave a second format at home...

Unless you need the versatility that a backup 35mm system offers.

Sure I wish the MF backs were even cheaper but this looks pretty good.  

Robb

[Steve Hendrix]

Ehhhh the Mamiya ZD back costs only $3700 new.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5859...el_Digital.html

Make sure you read this part:

***
BH Important Notice!
This item cannot be returned or exchanged unless defective
***

You better make sure you really want that ZD before you plunk down the money. I don't know if this is a new price, as we still show $6,999 on our Mamiya price list. Could be they're just blowing out the remainder of the inventory. Wouldn't surprise me to see them discontinued in light of the potential, though no yet established Mamiya-branded OEM Leaf or Phase backs distributed through Mac Group.


Steve Hendrix

[hauxon]

Make sure you read this part:

***
BH Important Notice!
This item cannot be returned or exchanged unless defective
***

You better make sure you really want that ZD before you plunk down the money. I don't know if this is a new price, as we still show $6,999 on our Mamiya price list. Could be they're just blowing out the remainder of the inventory. Wouldn't surprise me to see them discontinued in light of the potential, though no yet established Mamiya-branded OEM Leaf or Phase backs distributed through Mac Group.


Steve Hendrix

The Mamiya ZD is an old design (and somewhat dated) but so is the "new" Leaf back.  We could spend forever wondering why it's only $3700 but in the end of the day the price for a new Mamiya ZD digital back is $3700 and no use in pretending it is $6999.  

I actually think it's typical for the medium format industry, pretending the 20mp+ full-frame DSLR's do not exist.  No matter how much we like medium-format it's undeniable that pricing of digital backs has been in no touch with reality.  Large majority of professional photographers were using medium format gear before the digital age, of the five professional studio and event photographers I know personally all stopped using film when the original Canon 5D came out few years ago and have sold their Hasselblads and Mamiyas or have dug'em into a box in the garage.  And landscape/nature guy's it's even more hopeless.  I occationally use my Mamiya 7 film camera if I feel I need the added resolution but mostly I use it for fun/nerdishm.  The $3700 sticker for the Mamiya ZD back is the first time a digital back is priced for the real world, even if it's a little late,  and guys like me might actually think seriously about buying.  Dropping the price to $8000 for an entry level old technology Leaf back is a tiny step forward but will still send you above $10.000 for a camera+back combination witch is still too expensive.

Best, Hrannar

[Steve Hendrix]

The Mamiya ZD is an old design (and somewhat dated) but so is the "new" Leaf back.  We could spend forever wondering why it's only $3700 but in the end of the day the price for a new Mamiya ZD digital back is $3700 and no use in pretending it is $6999.  

I actually think it's typical for the medium format industry, pretending the 20mp+ full-frame DSLR's do not exist.  No matter how much we like medium-format it's undeniable that pricing of digital backs has been in no touch with reality.  Large majority of professional photographers were using medium format gear before the digital age, of the five professional studio and event photographers I know personally all stopped using film when the original Canon 5D came out few years ago and have sold their Hasselblads and Mamiyas or have dug'em into a box in the garage.  And landscape/nature guy's it's even more hopeless.  I occationally use my Mamiya 7 film camera if I feel I need the added resolution but mostly I use it for fun/nerdishm.  The $3700 sticker for the Mamiya ZD back is the first time a digital back is priced for the real world, even if it's a little late,  and guys like me might actually think seriously about buying.  Dropping the price to $8000 for an entry level old technology Leaf back is a tiny step forward but will still send you above $10.000 for a camera+back combination witch is still too expensive.

Best, Hrannar

The actual USA list price of a Mamiya ZD is $6,900. I can tell you that the price listed on BH is either a misprint or some sort of blow out purchase. The price they list is nearly $3,000 below USA dealer cost. Take it for what it is worth. And considering the hit rate of the ZD, I would take the no refund policy very seriously.

The pricing on the Aptus 5 with a camera + back is under $10,000, which is the same USA list price as the Mamiya ZDb camera + back.


Steve Hendrix

[RobertJ]

It's definitely NOT a misprint.  The ZDb is now $3699, and the Mamiya body with back is only $7,399.95.  

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6056...SLR_System.html

Still overpriced if you ask me.

[pcunite]

It's definitely NOT a misprint.  The ZDb is now $3699, and the Mamiya body with back is only $7,399.95.  

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6056...SLR_System.html

Still overpriced if you ask me.

Wow that is getting cheap! If it could do ISO 400 I would be all over it.

[Steve Hendrix]

It's definitely NOT a misprint.  The ZDb is now $3699, and the Mamiya body with back is only $7,399.95.  

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6056...SLR_System.html

Still overpriced if you ask me.

It may not be a misprint. If it is not - and I am awaiting a response from Mamiya at this point - my guess is that with the likely advent of Mamiya branded OEM Leaf and/or Phase One digital backs, the ZD is probably done and this is a blow out to BH to get rid of the remainder.


Steve Hendrix