Canon D60 or Nikon D100

[BobT]

Gene - no experience with the D100, but lots with D30/D60.

D60 produces great images in low light.  If you can get it to focus that is! Depending upon the lens, the D60's autofocus can be anywhere from good to abysmal.  It's not that big a deal for me, but I'm not trying to catch Schumacher with his wheel up in the air, either.

From what I have read, people experienced with both lines feel that overall the canon SYSTEM is better - the combo of bodies, lenses, flashes and so on.  The lenses really are marvels.  I think the Canon IS technology is always a leap or two ahead of Nikon.  (bash away as necessary)

I'll tell you this - watch any sports event where you see photogs in the background. You'll see a bunch of white lenses, the trademark of Canon pro lenses.

The more expensive Canon bodies may be more suitable for motorsport. In particular, the 1D has fantastic autofocus and the ability to shoot 8 FPS, which I would think would be important (I'm a huge fan of both those series BTW).

From what I have read many motorsports shooters focus manually anyway - they know precisely where they want to capture a car coming around a corner.  They are focused on that spot then trip the shutter when the car gets there. No autofocus is fast enough to catch Michael Andretti.

I am a Canon fan and because I have had good luck would advise people to go that way. No doubt Nikon fans would do the same. I hope this helps you somewhat! Good luck with the race shooting.  BobT.

[sergio]

I would rather strive for a what a whole system has to offer right now and in the future, than over a particualr body or model. I have never used any of the above cameras, nor am I very well acquainted with canon glass. I own nikon glass and have been shooting nikons for quite a while. I would make my decision thinking in a long term manner, because you are probably dumping whichever of the bodies you query in some years (probably not many).
I see in Canon a great lens selection. Especially in the IS lenses. Nikon falls short here. Autofocus in Canon is said by many to be better than Nikon (Nikon's is slow and noisy). And Canon cameras are supposed to be better sealed an dbetter prepared for exterior humid shooting. More moisture proof. Their lenses too. So if I was starting out again I would probably buy inclined in Canon direction. Hope this helps.

Sergio

[Gene Pearson]

WOW - what great responses and feedback. Thanks to you all.

From what I have read, I agree with all of you. At this point in time, I am
slightly leading towards the Canon D60. It seems to "feel" better in my hand,
it's functions seem to be very straightforward ( all of this of coarse is only by
holding a camera in the photo store ).

It appears that both cameras have "some" issues with low light and autofocus, I am
guessing I may not get totally around this unless I could afford a D1s.

With regards to "glass", I know that Canon and Nikon both make excellent glass, but
if one were on somewhat of a beginner budget, what would your opinion be of
the Tamron 28-300 zoom?     Shame on me!

I have tried to find a place to rent one, but there are none available and I don't
know of anyone personally that has one.

I am feeling kind of preasured due to the latest rumor/announcement that the D60
is being discontinued and it appears that rumor also has it that the "D80/90??"
may be around $3k+...........

Note: re: lenses, I will probably get something like a 24-135 by Tamron also.
Please let me know your opinion on either or both of these lenses and also what\
your opinion is on spending more money on Canon/Nikon lenses.
I know I can't afford the pro level.............

Tks again,
Gene

[Dan Sroka]

You might be able to find a used one now. I got my D100 used on B&H Photo (http://www.bhphoto.com), only 8 months after it was released. There always seem to be people jumping on the latest thing, and selling their "old" equipment! B&H (and the like) is nice because they give you a 90 day warranty on their used equipment.

If the D60 feels good, then that's it! It's like buying a pair of shoes. If they don't fit your feet, you'll never go out walking in them.

Lens: get what you can afford. Tamron's fine, and I have a couple decent Sigmas. Some people say to only get the best, but this is silly when you are on a budget. Get what you can, and shoot away. It is better to have a cheaper lens you use all the time, then sit there waiting til you can afford a better lens (misisng all those shots).

Good luck,
Dan

[Pete]

Gene,

Congrats on your purchase--you'll have a lot of fun with it!  As far as flashes go, the D60 needs canon's -EX series if you want to make the most of the camera.   Check your manual--you can use the earlier -EZ series (such as the 540EZ), but then the camera has to be in manual mode for exposure AS WELL AS the flash (set in manual raitios 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, etc... power).  I don't believe you can use third-party flashes with it (unless perhaps they too are used in manual settings).  You're probably best springing for the canon 550EX--a bit expensive, but it has lots of neat features that the D60 can take advantage of.  Good luck

Pete

[Pete]

Hi Gordon,

I'm not familar with the metz 54 series and cannot find it listed on B&H's website--I find only 45 or 69 series types.  Is it a handle-mount type flash?

I think the 420 EX is a good choice, but I had two concerns about it myself.

1) there's no port for a connecting cord to the quantum turbo pack--I tend to use that often for some of the jobs I tend to get.  Without that type of connection, a module would probably have to be inserted into the battery chamber--this was a bit of a weak point on its predecessor--the 380EX.

2) I believe it cannot be used as a "master" in the wireless setup--I think you need either a 550 EX or the ST-E2 transmitter to trigger it.

It can, however, utilize the high-speed flash synch for some dynamite fill-flash using higher shutter speeds and larger apertures.  

These might be concerns for anyone trying to expand his/her flash capability with a canon dedicated flash system.

Pete

[Pete]

Gordon,

Thanks for the metz link--looks good as a possible, less expensive backup.

Pete

[Gene Pearson]

I am trying to choose between the Canon D60 or the Nikon D100.
I am switching to all digital and getting rid of my Minolta 800si.
I basically have 2 questions regarding the D60 or the D100:
Which one is better in low light conditions?
Which one would be better shooting CART / F1 racing?

Note: I will naturally be getting new lenses as well.

Any suggestions sure would be a help.
Thanks,
Gene

[jdemott]

Gene--My disclaimer: I have a D100, but no experience with D60.  I have followed a number of the discussions and comparisons on the Web, but can't offer direct comparison from personal experience.

In low light, the Canon is reported to have the edge for low noise on long exposures, at least for lower ISOs.  The D100 is also very low on noise, at least for exposures of up to 10-15 seconds, which is about as much as I have tried.  

The D100 has the edge, however, for high ISO ability, also a big factor for low light performance, particularly if you need faster shutter speeds.  The D100's slowest ISO is 200, and it offers standard ISOs up to 1600 with HIGH settings of 3200 and 6400, although noise is definitely an issue on the HIGH  settings.  ISO 800 images are relatively low noise in D100, definitely usable.

Autofocus seems to be a regular complaint of D60 owners, not so much of an issue for D100 users.  You might look at http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004PM5 which reports on some autofocus tests by the magazine Chasseur d'Images.  Apparently, this included tests on a moving car.  Overall D100 scored somewhat better on AF.

For fastest autofocus in the Nikon line, you would need to invest in the AF-S lenses.  My experience on the D100 is that low light autofocus is quite good, particularly with infrared assist from an attached speedlight.  Normal light AF is also fine.  Obviously all auto focus systems can have problems with certain low contrast or reflective situations, and the D100 is no exception.

[Dan Sroka]

Unfortunately, all we online here can tell you is our own personal experience. Nice to know, but not unbiased. Probably the best thing to do is go to a pro shop and rent them both for a day - see how they behave in your hands in real (i.e. non-store) conditions.

The are both fine, excellent tools with great accessories. You won't go wrong with either.

I also went from my trusty Minolta 800si to digital (I chose D100). It was sad to let the old guy go, sigh.   But within a week, I wasn't looking back (note, that since I have done tons of digital photography, I had no learning curve. Results may vary). The Nikon AF-S lenses are smooth, fast, and q u i e t ! They make my old Minolta lenses sound like old cars shifting into reverse.

A thought about lenses. Many people talk about which company has more or better lenses, etc. In my work, there are only a few lenses that I will ever need. So, as long as the brand has those, I am set. (And luckily, the lenses I need aren't too exotic.)

A thought about low-light: whichever camera you buy, you'll get a benefit from shooting raw files. I am always amazed at the amount of data hidden in my raw files -- they give you the ability to boost the exposure in postprocessing, something which has saved many badly lit shots.

[dbarthel]

Gene, if you're on a tight budget, a valid strategy may be to wait for the D60 replacement to hit, and then shop for a used one. The money you save will let you buy the best glass available, and the D60 WILL take advantage of L series lenses.

Check the Rob Galbrath forums. D60's show up regularly from people upgrading to the 1D or 1Ds.

Dan

[BobT]

Gene - re: your lenses.  The lens is super important. I have been through this myself.  It's kind of like with Audio systems. You can have a $3,000 receiver, but if you are listening through $200 speakers, how good can it sound?

The camera looks through the lens, well you get the idea.

With motorsports, you need reach, unless you are shooting in the pits (in that case, invite me!).  

A lens that is extremely high quality is the 70-200 F4 L.  What??? An L lens, that is affordable? Yes, this is the one. You can get it for about $500.  I have had mine for 2 years, it is wonderful.  This lens is head and shoulders above any tamron or sigma, in my opinion. It's worth every penny of the $500.  To go faster (2. you have to spend a lot more money.

I have been through the less expensive lenses myself.  The 70-200 F4L is both reasonable and superb. You owe it to yourself to give this one a shot (pardon the pun).

There are a lot of nice used ones for sale because people are moving up to the 70-200 2.8 IS, mainly because they want the IS.

Bob.

[Gene Pearson]

I Did It !!!  

Thanks to all of you for your input.
I made the decision and got the Canon D60 and the Tamron 28-300.

I took it to Laguna Seca Raceway for the CART testing this weekend and was really
thrilled at the way it performed. The one lens basically took care of the entire track,
including pits.

I made this purchase after the note re: the 70-200 L thread. I may have to take a look around
to see what I can get on ebay or /???

My next purchase will be a flash??? Any thoughts??
Is Canon the only flash recommended, or are there other less expensive that will
perform as well?

I am hoping that this settup will last me for 3 to 4 years, and then I will step up to the next
level.  Probably Canon lenses also.

Thanks again,
Gene

[flash]

While the focus is a low point of the D60, the flash circuitry is a high point. I have tried various aftermarket guns on EX compatible Canons and the only one to even consider is the Metz 54 series. Having said that though unless you need the use of manual flash I would look at the Canon 420ex. Fully compatible, 1/2 the price of the 550ex and capable of all the wireless flash capabilities the system offers.

Gordon

[flash]

The 54MZ -3 is the top Metz hot shoe flash gun. I suggest you look at http://www.metz.de/1_metz_....cablitz
for information on this flash. It is ETTL compatible but does not support cordless flash.

The 420EX is only a slave in the cordless system. But it is fine to start with this gun. If you want cordless you will probably get a second gun anyway and can get a 550EX then. Or you can get a 420ex and an STE2 for about the same price if you don't want a flash on camera as well as remote.

If you want to use a quantum pack then the insert for the battery compartment will have to be used.

Some people need or want all the functions of the 550EX. Gene asked for cheaper alternatives. The Metz 54MZ3 and 420EX are perfect if you don't want or need the wireless flash but still want ETTL.

Gordon