Problem with printing correct color

[Dave Carter]

Please help me with a color issue.

I am using Photoshop CS4 to create a small 4 color target.  It contains two colors and two pure gray targets. See it below.
After creating the target, I have checked the colors with the Eyedropper Tool in Photoshop and they are the correct values of RGB that I want to print.

I then print the target with an Epson 4880 printer using a profile I just created for Epson singleweight matt paper.

As you can see from the table below, the color values in RGB are quite different then in Photoshop.  I used a GretagMacbeth Eye-One Share software version 1.4 and my Eye-One Pro spectrophotometer to measure the values.

I realize COLOR is a very large subject, but I would appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction.

I would like to get the values much closer to the original values - if possible?
[attachment=16297:031_Peon...r_target.jpg]
[attachment=16298:031_Peon...t_data_1.jpg]


Thanks,
Dave

[Mark D Segal]

You haven't said anything about your printer/paper profile, or the settings in the printer drive and in Photoshop Print window. What paper are you using, what printer profile are you using and what settings do you have in the printer driver and in Photoshop print window?

As a general rule, many such questions come to this Forum with incomplete information allowing other readers to better understand what could be the source of the problem. It is best to provide as much contextual information as possible to aid with diagnosis.

[Dave Carter]

Mark, thank you for your interest in helping me.

Let me try to give you as much as I see:

With file open in Photoshop, I go to /File/Print.

In that window are the following settings:  (I have also uploaded a Screen Grab of this window)
Printer: Stylus Pro 4880
Copies: 1
Page Setup: 8 1/2"x 11"
Center Image: not checked  (I position target on paper in a clean area)
Scale:  100%
Color Management: Document checked ( Profile: ProPhoto RGB)
Color Handling: Photoshop Manages Colors
Printer Profile: a,SingleWtMat_4880_8-27-09
Rendering Intent: Relative Colorimetric ( Mark, as you can see in the Table of data, I have also tried the other three setting in this box)
Black Point Compensation Box: checked

I then click PRINT:  (Also uploaded are the windows that I think you may want to see)
Go through three screens as shown below and then click PRINT.

Let print dry for 3+ hours

Open Eye-One Share and measure.

[attachment=16307:Photosho...Screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16308:First_Pr...screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16309:Second_P...Screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16310:Third_Pr...Screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16311:Eye_One_...Window_1.jpg]

I hope this helps.  Please let me know if you need any other info.

Thanks again.

[Mark D Segal]

Mark, thank you for your interest in helping me.

Let me try to give you as much as I see:

With file open in Photoshop, I go to /File/Print.

In that window are the following settings:  (I have also uploaded a Screen Grab of this window)
Printer: Stylus Pro 4880
Copies: 1
Page Setup: 8 1/2"x 11"
Center Image: not checked  (I position target on paper in a clean area)
Scale:  100%
Color Management: Document checked ( Profile: ProPhoto RGB)
Color Handling: Photoshop Manages Colors
Printer Profile: a,SingleWtMat_4880_8-27-09
Rendering Intent: Relative Colorimetric ( Mark, as you can see in the Table of data, I have also tried the other three setting in this box)
Black Point Compensation Box: checked

I then click PRINT:  (Also uploaded are the windows that I think you may want to see)
Go through three screens as shown below and then click PRINT.

Let print dry for 3+ hours

Open Eye-One Share and measure.

[attachment=16307:Photosho...Screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16308:First_Pr...screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16309:Second_P...Screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16310:Third_Pr...Screen_1.jpg]
[attachment=16311:Eye_One_...Window_1.jpg]

I hope this helps.  Please let me know if you need any other info.

Thanks again.

Apart from "Lampshade" preset which I've never seen before and don't know what it does, your other settings look fine. Unless the "lampshade" preset is causing the problem, I'm wondering whether the paper you are using contains OBAs (optical brightening agents) and the spectro doesn't have a UV-cut filter, thereby messing up your spectro readings. How do the gray patches LOOK to you just by lokoing at the print. Do they look gray, or do they look bluish?

[Dave Carter]

"Lampshade Preset" is just my name for a setup.  It is just a shortcut for setting the windows I showed you.  (It saves time for repeat setups)

One thing I noticed in doing this is that the actual file in Photoshop is in ProPhoto RGB space and when I measure I can only set Adobe Photo 1998.  Could that be the problem?  Maybe I will try printing a file from a Adobe Photo RGB 1998 and measuring it.

I can not see a color cast to the printed gray targets, but that would not be unusual for me.  I can certainly see the difference in Photoshop when the two colors are beside each other, but on the print there is nothing to compare it with.  If I print 200, 200, 200 and 205, 194, 177 beside each other, I can certainly see a significant difference.  But, neither one comes close to measuring 200, 200, 200.


With respect to UV, I think you may have a good point that I did not think of.  Do you know of a paper that should try?  If so, I will get some and try it.  That may tell us something.  I will also ask XRite if my Eye-One has a filter.

[Mark D Segal]

I think it has a filter, but I think also there is an option about whether or not to use it. This I'm not sure about however. As for OBA-free paper you could try Epson Fine Art, Hahn's matte papers, any of the new Baryta papers (but that would require an ink switch on your 4880).

[Dave Carter]

I did some reading on the web and found that Epson Ultrasmooth Fine Art paper does not contain OB's and I have some.  However, I have not profiled it since I got the 4880 printer.  So, I printed a profile target and will leave it dry overnight.  In the morning I will read the chart and produce a profile.  Then I will try again on this paper.

[Czornyj]

Many things went wrong:
- Synthetic RGB color space is actually not that good for such a play. It contains many values that are out of the printer gamut.
- Relative Colorimetric with BPC intent is not necessarily supposed to give the same colorimetric value as you expected
- The printed target was in ProPhoto RGB, while the measurements were converted to AdobeRGB
- Plus all the aspects I didn't notice nor am aware of.

[Dave Carter]

Thank you all.
I believe the problem is solved.
This morning I measured several GRAY CARDS that I have for white balance when taking pictures outside.  They all acted the same as above - way off of gray when measured.

So I called x-rite tech and found out you can not convert Lab values to RGB values without going through a profile in Eye-One Share.

I then repainted the color targets using L,a,b values.  Then, after printing, I measured and recorded the L,a,b values in Eye-One Share. SHARE was reporting everything much better.

Example of first target above is printed at 95,-2,10 (L,a,b values) in Photoshop.  Measured in SHARE at 92,-3,11.
Example of second target above is printed at 79,3,44.  Measured in SHARE at 78,4,43.
Example of third target above is printed at 50,0,0.  Measured in SHARE at 50,0,1.
Example of fourth target above is printed at 84,0,0.  Measured in SHARE at 84,-1,1.

So, I think I am all set if I just stick to L,a,b values.
Thanks again,
Dave