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Author Topic: My new camera  (Read 8864 times)

BlasR

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My new camera
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2009, 07:51:11 pm »

Quote from: EricM
Thank you, Blas. You would know, since you have been watching me from when I was born (I think you were about 40 then, weren't you?)

Eric


No eric remember

you change my diaper,

 I think your memory is almost gone.  

Sorry bernard, you ask for age

Blas
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BernardLanguillier

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My new camera
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2009, 08:39:13 pm »

Quote from: EricM
Bernard,

I bet your new "6" will be much easier to lug into the mountains than any MFDB would be. Stitching might require a couple of additional steps, but that's back at headquarters. I look forward to seeing some of your pix from it.

I guess I still need to make sure that the pictures I took with it are reasonnably well exposed... sharpness is going to be a bonus.

Quote from: EricM
As for how old I am: How well I recall dashing out of the cave with a dripping wet plate covered by a piece of mastodon hyde, inserting it into my camera-obscura, pulling off the cover from the pinhole, and hoping that I'd get enough light in before the Brontosaurus got to me. Ah, the good old days. That were truly the Golden Age of Photography, when sharp images occured only in my imagination! 

Using a cave as a camera... tempting proposal...  I'll try it with my living room first  

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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My new camera
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2009, 08:40:24 pm »

Quote from: BlasR
No eric remember

you change my diaper,

 I think your memory is almost gone.  

Sorry bernard, you ask for age

I have no problem with the fact that I am younger! I guess that somebody else is going to beat me on that metrics though...  

Cheers,
Bernard

Anders_HK

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My new camera
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2009, 10:47:22 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Anders,

Allow me to ask, what experience do you have with a D3x? It is much better than the Mamiya ZD that seems to be our common reference on this topic. How clean and sharp the D3x files are is pretty amazing coming from the ZD. The shadows are especially impressive, pull pull pull... no noise whatsoever in areas that look black when opening the files.

As far as back goes, the many files that I have seen from Phase and Hassy have never really impressed me that much (they might not have been shot optimally). I do not like the way micro detail become painterly. I much prefer the way my D3x files with correct sharpening look at 100% on screen. They do have a real photographic quality to them. I have less experience with Leaf files that are said to be better.

But the main problem really is with the cameras supporting the backs.
- My Mamiya experiences have convinced me that they don't have the potential to handle the demands of high level digital, very nice people though,
- AFi seemed tempting but is now dead,
- H3 is a body whose ergonomics I really dislike (vertical shooting is impossible without wrist injuries), with heavy lenses, some of them no that impressive (I used to shoot with a H1 and was real disapointed by the 35 mm for instance).

In the end the only useful option is a Cambo wide and digitar lenses with the back on, but this is impossible to focus critically in the field without life view and the actual information contained in one of my D3x files correctly focused will be real close to that of a loosely focused back anyway.

Besides, I am not even going on all the annoying things like:
- overall lack of quality generating many issues (including alignement issues impacting image quality)
- poor long exposure image quality (Dalsa sensors)
- color casts
- lack of DoF
- lack of battery life in cold weather,
- slowness of operation
- poor screens
- lack of image stabilitization
- poor high ISO
- lack of efficient flash system
- limited lenses range (does't go very wide, doesn't go very long) - my Nikon lenses go from 14mm to 300mm and are all tack sharp from corner to corner (leaving aside the 80-400 that is not that impressive), MF set up would go at best from 20 to 200 mm in 35 mm equivalence,
- ...

All that is without looking at the difference in price.

In the end I am much better off with stitching with the D3x when I want really good image quality in flexible image aspect ratio (stitching is the only option here anyway) and using my Ebony/Mamiya when I want to have fun.

The only way I could start looking at these back seriously is when they will feature in back live view. Until then I will spend my extra $ in second hand high end audio and my useful $ in extending the Nikon system with more panoramic options.

Cheers,
Bernard


Bernard,

I think we can agree that the ZD had "limitations", or like I posted under the heading "ZD has problem" there were technical problems with it. Per my personal eye I prefer Leaf over P1, because of the sensor Dalsa (same as ZD), but very very well implemented. The Aptus 22 beats the ZD by far - both at low ISO. Perhaps in some ways the D3X beats the ZD, but I been told by others finding the 5DII to be shallow image quality compared to ZD (at low ISO), but... frank I have nil experience of D3X, while... per photos posted I do not see them reach MFDB quite. Likewise I assume you have little or no experience of Leaf except posts? I do like Dalsa sensors, and the Leaf "film like" rendering of them. That said, for "compact" I recent became very happy with the Leica M8.1, which has a Kodak sensor, as does Hassy and P1 (except P65 and P40).

My Aptus 65 is a newer generation sensor than Aptus 22 (Aptus 22 has same sensor as ZD, but well implemented).

As far as camera systems, it is based on preference. If one believes in latest high tech automations, go DSLR. If instead one believes in traditional then MF is for me more preference. My current liking is that the more manual it gets the more photographic it gets, because the more I can influence the image. Thus I am current experimenting my Leaf on large format. So far only testing with custom made adapter and traditional lenses, but indeed feels promising.... but if pixel peeping perhaps where main focus is....

Anders
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BernardLanguillier

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My new camera
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2009, 06:50:16 pm »

Quote from: Anders_HK
As far as camera systems, it is based on preference. If one believes in latest high tech automations, go DSLR. If instead one believes in traditional then MF is for me more preference. My current liking is that the more manual it gets the more photographic it gets, because the more I can influence the image. Thus I am current experimenting my Leaf on large format. So far only testing with custom made adapter and traditional lenses, but indeed feels promising.... but if pixel peeping perhaps where main focus is....

You see Anders, that's where you loose coherence.

Either maximum image quality is key for your application (what you call pixel peeping) and then what you need to pay attention to is both the capture device itself and how it is used, or maximum image quality is not that important and DSLRs are enough anyway.

Pixel peeping is not the only reason why one might look into the best possible image quality, printing large is another reason. Might not be important for you, it is for me.

Cheers,
Bernard

KevinA

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My new camera
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2009, 03:24:28 am »

Quote from: Rob C
If I may insert a serious note for a moment: those folding bellows cameras, from 35mm to roll, does anybody know how parallel, in general, the front remained to the back? There were many models of the type still doing the rounds in the mid-fifties but they died out quite quickly after that, it seemed. Even as a young guy I was very suspicious of the format; maybe because I worked in engineering for a while.

Rob C

I had until recently a modern version the Makina 67, I never had a problem with alignment  problem even after years of abuse. I used it as my walk around camera and  I sold a lot of images taken with that camera. Recently I had Plaubel give it a thorough costly service, it did not need any realignment .
I shot one and a half rolls with it after the service then dropped it and wrote it off.
It was superb at capturing light because of the bellows ability to absorb stray light, I'm now waiting for the insurance settlement.

Kevin.
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KevinA

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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2009, 03:36:53 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Anders,

Allow me to ask, what experience do you have with a D3x? It is much better than the Mamiya ZD that seems to be our common reference on this topic. How clean and sharp the D3x files are is pretty amazing coming from the ZD. The shadows are especially impressive, pull pull pull... no noise whatsoever in areas that look black when opening the files.

As far as back goes, the many files that I have seen from Phase and Hassy have never really impressed me that much (they might not have been shot optimally). I do not like the way micro detail become painterly. I much prefer the way my D3x files with correct sharpening look at 100% on screen. They do have a real photographic quality to them. I have less experience with Leaf files that are said to be better.

But the main problem really is with the cameras supporting the backs.
- My Mamiya experiences have convinced me that they don't have the potential to handle the demands of high level digital, very nice people though,
- AFi seemed tempting but is now dead,
- H3 is a body whose ergonomics I really dislike (vertical shooting is impossible without wrist injuries), with heavy lenses, some of them no that impressive (I used to shoot with a H1 and was real disapointed by the 35 mm for instance).

In the end the only useful option is a Cambo wide and digitar lenses with the back on, but this is impossible to focus critically in the field without life view and the actual information contained in one of my D3x files correctly focused will be real close to that of a loosely focused back anyway.

Besides, I am not even going on all the annoying things like:
- overall lack of quality generating many issues (including alignement issues impacting image quality)
- poor long exposure image quality (Dalsa sensors)
- color casts
- lack of DoF
- lack of battery life in cold weather,
- slowness of operation
- poor screens
- lack of image stabilitization
- poor high ISO
- lack of efficient flash system
- limited lenses range (does't go very wide, doesn't go very long) - my Nikon lenses go from 14mm to 300mm and are all tack sharp from corner to corner (leaving aside the 80-400 that is not that impressive), MF set up would go at best from 20 to 200 mm in 35 mm equivalence,
- ...

All that is without looking at the difference in price.

In the end I am much better off with stitching with the D3x when I want really good image quality in flexible image aspect ratio (stitching is the only option here anyway) and using my Ebony/Mamiya when I want to have fun.

The only way I could start looking at these back seriously is when they will feature in back live view. Until then I will spend my extra $ in second hand high end audio and my useful $ in extending the Nikon system with more panoramic options.

Cheers,
Bernard

The painterly effect was leveled at the Kodak SLR/n, I could see it on screen, but in print it was not an issue. I did an exhibition with a landscape photographer once, most of my images then was shot on a 1dsmkII, I had 2 shot on the Kodak printed at 20x16. My friend not knowing this said "those two look really sharp"
I think not having the AA filter is the reason for this onscreen look.

Kevin.
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elf

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My new camera
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2009, 12:50:46 am »

Bernard: the link to the camera is broken, can you repost?
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2009, 10:16:11 am »

Quote from: elf
Bernard: the link to the camera is broken, can you repost?

You can see a slight variant of it in either post #9 or #10.
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