Equipment & Techniques > Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography
Franke & Heidecke closes
mcfoto:
From what I have read on the F&H subject the problems seem to go back to last year. By the time the new director came on board with his 10+ m euros it was too late. At the end of Feb 2009 the truth came out. Months followed with no response until what we have today. Who is to blame? Did the 5DMKII & Red camera have that much impact. With Phase buying Leaf ( parts of ) & not going to support the AFi camera we can only read between the lines.
Denis
rethmeier:
From what I've heard is that Phase was begging to get on board with the Hy6,however Sinar and Leaf locked them out.
That only means one thing.
If Phase was allowed on the Hy6 platform,many more Hy6 bodies would have been sold,however the money is in the Digital backs.
Leaf and Sinar wouldn't have gained much from selling more Hy6's.
They would have lost,because more people would go for the Phase option with the Hy6(if that was an option)
My 2cw.
Regards,
Willem.
Jack Varney:
--- Quote from: rethmeier ---From what I've heard is that Phase was begging to get on board with the Hy6,however Sinar and Leaf locked them out.
That only means one thing.
If Phase was allowed on the Hy6 platform,many more Hy6 bodies would have been sold,however the money is in the Digital backs.
Leaf and Sinar wouldn't have gained much from selling more Hy6's.
They would have lost,because more people would go for the Phase option with the Hy6(if that was an option)
--- End quote ---
Phase may have been "begging to get on board with the Hy6" but if they were I have to wonder why. I loved the Rolleiflexes and in the late 1960s and hoped they would make an SLR version. My adreniline still surges whenver I see a Rolleiflex. Having owned and sold Rollies, Burleigh Brooks was the American distributor in the fifties and earliy sixties, I was dissapointed when it was time to move up to interchangable lenses and film backs. Rollei did not produce a MF SLR early and, when they did their prices were steep. I bought an almost new Hasselblad 500C kit instead.
To me, sadly, Rollei never developed a MF single reflex camera that captured the interest of the market nearly as well as the Hasselblad, Bronica or Mamiya. In the US these competitors were regularly displayed and the Rolleis seldom.
Over the last 60 years I have used many cameras and sold several at retail. Those owned include Rolliecord, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad 500C, Besseler Topcon, Canon A1, Mamiya 1000S, Mamiya 645 Pro and Mamiya 645 AFD. In my opinion, the Rollei single reflex cameras, 6000 series, Hy6/AFy cameras, etc. always seemed in a way"odd" or overly expessive compared to their competitors. Maybe it was because they were not as available to try as were their competitors.
I went on in the business world only to come back to photogrphy, my first love, some 40 years later. For those of you F&H/Rollei fans, you must forget the idea that some firm will magically pick up production of the Hy6. It is not impossible but you have no idea how complicated this is. Furthermore, I think that, as much as I want MF competition to increase, the Hy6 is a loser in the market, relative to the competition as limited as it now is.
Now,for all you 6008, Hy6 and AFY users with all of your investment in glass, etc. I know this is a bitter pill to swallow but it is reality. I wish you better.
Geoffrey:
--- Quote from: Beachconnection ---Phase may have been "begging to get on board with the Hy6" but if they were I have to wonder why. I loved the Rolleiflexes and in the late 1960s and hoped they would make an SLR version. My adreniline still surges whenver I see a Rolleiflex. Having owned and sold Rollies, Burleigh Brooks was the American distributor in the fifties and earliy sixties, I was dissapointed when it was time to move up to interchangable lenses and film backs. Rollei did not produce a MF SLR early and, when they did their prices were steep. I bought an almost new Hasselblad 500C kit instead.
To me, sadly, Rollei never developed a MF single reflex camera that captured the interest of the market nearly as well as the Hasselblad, Bronica or Mamiya. In the US these competitors were regularly displayed and the Rolleis seldom.
Over the last 60 years I have used many cameras and sold several at retail. Those owned include Rolliecord, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad 500C, Besseler Topcon, Canon A1, Mamiya 1000S, Mamiya 645 Pro and Mamiya 645 AFD. In my opinion, the Rollei single reflex cameras, 6000 series, Hy6/AFy cameras, etc. always seemed in a way"odd" or overly expessive compared to their competitors. Maybe it was because they were not as available to try as were their competitors.
I went on in the business world only to come back to photogrphy, my first love, some 40 years later. For those of you F&H/Rollei fans, you must forget the idea that some firm will magically pick up production of the Hy6. It is not impossible but you have no idea how complicated this is. Furthermore, I think that, as much as I want MF competition to increase, the Hy6 is a loser in the market, relative to the competition as limited as it now is.
Now,for all you 6008, Hy6 and AFY users with all of your investment in glass, etc. I know this is a bitter pill to swallow but it is reality. I wish you better.
--- End quote ---
Harrumph. OK - the truth is out. The world has moved on and F&H and Rollei is left behind. So be it, its now a fact. Sic transit gloria mundi.
But that doesn't take away from how good the cameras are/were, and how the strengths of the cameras were well developed. There were clearly issues with marketing, and the approach of a design/engineering led company trying to find their way out of the woods did leave something to be desired in the sales department, to be sure. But the fact is that the Rollei was always a traditional but integrated camera system, and one which (to my hands, eyes) optimized ergonomics and usability over other trends. Yes, they were for the careful photographer, but they did somethings very well. The TLR remains a viable camera even today, and while there are terrible issues of film loading, and non-changeable lenses (probably unacceptable in 99.9% of the market), it takes remarkably good pictures.
About 15 years ago I gave up the Hassy 500C for a Rollei 6003 and never looked back. I really liked the 6003 with its slimmer back and removable handle. It was a load to carry all day, but for a two hour walkaround, it worked remarkably well, and took some of my finest pictures. Coupled with the Schneider 60 mm lens, I'm not sure that progress on any other front was needed at all. The metering was impeccable, its operation always flawless, never a hiccup. And Rollei clearly understood something about film flatness. I'm wondering about going back to film, it was that good.
The 6008 AF was an extension (IMHO) gone too far - the AF was slow, the weight high, and the battery usage too great. On the other hand, new batteries now give days worth of charge, so that's not an issue anymore. The AFI/Hy6 was a good design coupling the older virtues with new technology, and while not for everyone, had great appeal. Maybe the 6x6 didn't make sense, but they were caught between keeping older customers in the loop and modernizing. It was a pretty good solution, again not for everyone. At $20-30k, it didn't make sense for me, but at $10-12k, I'd be cleaning out the closet for one....
As to Rollei being "head in the sand or the clouds", there is the terrible problem of being right, but with their timing being off. They had scan backs, digital backs, modular systems, two lens suppliers (and their own), etc. Just didn't hit the market at the right time in the right way. Yes, management is to blame, to be sure, but can we at least tip our hat to those people who made a fine camera for many years? If you can't, I surely will. My life and work is richer for the experience of these cameras, and that is no small pleasure.
Geoff
paratom:
that an opinion not more.
Maybe they are/were sometimes slow with bringing a product, but they also brought some very good products to the market. The twin projector is one good example, and I do not see who else offered such a projector in such quality.
Also the Hy6 has been the first digial MF camera where you could exchange all kind of nice viewfinders, exp meter while using the WLF, use a rotating back, focus bracket,...
Maybe they were to early - bringing the Hy6 before there was a square large sensor available.
--- Quote from: Christian Miersch ---In the comments to the first link at Photoscala wild discussion ensued, with some people avidly pointing out the unfairness of letting die F&H, while other companies getting resuced.
One commet there I found very interesting, in fact so interesting that I took the time to translate it. Im not an insider, I only follow these threads here at LL with great interest, so other may judge if it is true, or not, or whatever. So maybe its useful for some of you. At least for me it sounded partly plausible, and very true to german thinking. (I must say Im also a bit frightened about that hardness and frustration wich sounds through the lines, unfortunately.)
And please forgive my funny choose of words, it had to go fast.
Christian
And here the translated text:
http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Bei-Frank...#comment-106307
=====================================================================
Indeed, as mentioned in another comment: witnessing this fiasco in its full depth is truly no fun at all. A few remarks are in order:
There can't be any "long-experienced" F&H-Insiders since the "new" F&H doesnt even exists 5 years. Compared to the old FH/Rollei era this is hardly a blink of an eye. Whoever has witnessed the daily trot there will acknowledge this. The overall view at Wikipedia about Rollei is quite correct, comprehensive and factual. Anyhow it also tells about the whole misery burgeoning since 50 years, if read right. Declarations about (wrong) strategies you will hardly find there, not because of lack of inquiry but because of the lack of formulated strategy since decades!
They bobbed up and down in a supposedly safe haven wich got smaller and smaller, so they shrunk too. Informed longterm decisions, guidelines, or goals: None. Beside of lots of hot air from the "management" there where no real intentions. Sample needed? "Just build 3000 projectors, we will manage to sell them" Said this decade - the whole market should have not much bigger. Thus the Dia-Pro montage perpetued quasi until yesterday. And the two lensed systems owed their zombie-exsistence the continuous japanese insinuations of "Horseman" Komamura, mainly to service the collector market, and of course suddendly japanese parts got part in the high class german workmanship.
Wiki shows (indirect), that important trends where consitently missed in Braunschweig by 5-7 years, even then it was not much more than random tumblings into a general direction. Own big-mouthed announcements where only followed at least 2 years later with actions. Starting with the adherence to the two lensed system end of the 50's when the others built SLR's since long ago, to the "Start" of the 6008AF, without AF-lenses (wich came 2 years later...) Such behaviour is not only deadly in todays market, it was ever since. And that became apparent very good in all new projects of the last 15 years.
But in one thing they where simply ingenious: To attract investors of all kind, size and couleur, and to bestow losses measured in millions upon them. In the case of separation wondrously and repeatedly as relinquishments in favour of some "earned division-manager" at the MBO (management buy out). A equally big throw was the revival of the "nostalgic legend" F&H through utilisation of said grandchild generation, however only with abandonement of the brand name + the last machines & real estates in favour of the last looted investor. Whoever gets vilified as locust should at least keep the warm ashes of the burnt millions...
The questions about technical competence, quality, etc., are pretty much answered by the things told above.
--- End quote ---
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