Limestone cliffs/Buffalo River

[shutterpup]

C&C please.
[attachment=14613:Lorraine...Photo_43.jpg]

[wolfnowl]

Well, I like the pattern in the cliffs, so my eye starts there, then falls diagonally through the gap into the trees and lands on the edge of the river at the bottom of the frame and stops there going, "Now what?"  What is the main element of this image for you?  Is it the cliffs, the river, the trees?  You've photographed the river at a bend, but then excluded half of it... why?

If it was me, I probably would have made a landscape rather than portrait image, (essentially cutting the image you have in half), focusing on the cliffs and the patterns revealed by the holes in the tree canopy.  There may be something interesting about the river itself, but I don't see it here.

HTH...

Mike.

[Jeremy Roussak]

C&C please.
[attachment=14613:Lorraine...Photo_43.jpg]

For me, there's too much vaguely pretty but rather boring greenery and not enough of the interesting (from what I can see) cliffs and river.

Jeremy

[shutterpup]

Well, I like the pattern in the cliffs, so my eye starts there, then falls diagonally through the gap into the trees and lands on the edge of the river at the bottom of the frame and stops there going, "Now what?"  What is the main element of this image for you?  Is it the cliffs, the river, the trees?  You've photographed the river at a bend, but then excluded half of it... why?

If it was me, I probably would have made a landscape rather than portrait image, (essentially cutting the image you have in half), focusing on the cliffs and the patterns revealed by the holes in the tree canopy.  There may be something interesting about the river itself, but I don't see it here.

HTH...

Mike.

 

Mike,
I have numerous shots of the cliffs as you have described. They strike me as incomplete. My intent here was to get the flavor of what the canoers would see as they put their boats in and set down around the bend. And there is the intrigue of "What indeed lies around that bend?"

[RSL]

Mike,
I have numerous shots of the cliffs as you have described. They strike me as incomplete. My intent here was to get the flavor of what the canoers would see as they put their boats in and set down around the bend. And there is the intrigue of "What indeed lies around that bend?"

Pup,

Ah yes. Add a beached canoe and a couple people and you'd have something worthwhile. We'd immediately become a lot more interested in what the people were doing than what lies around the bend. The way it is right now I agree with Mike, though I doubt landscape-oriented framing would help. There's just nothing there. It's another example of something that looks nice but doesn't make a photograph. In fact, I'd say that if something looks nice, be very wary about approaching it with a camera and as you approach keep repeating to yourself, "cliche?", "cliche?", "cliche?".

[shutterpup]

Russ,
Do you think this meets my original vision for this topic better?
[attachment=14618:Lorraine...Photo_42.jpg]

[RSL]

Russ,
Do you think this meets my original vision for this topic better?

Pup, It's better, but I'm not thrilled with the position of the subject. I'd move him a bit to the left -- actually about a third of the way from the right side (this is one place where the rule of thirds actually would help), and I might bring into the picture what looks like a teddy bear behind him and to his right. I might also hack off a bit of the bottom.

[button]

With respect to the first image, I agree with what's said: lots of green, not much direction.  

But, I do think you can do something with this to make it more about lines and curves.  I'd take it into Camera Raw or Lightroom and play around with the luminosity sliders to accentuate/mute various elements by color, as you see fit.  For example, pull the green luminosity slider down and watch what happens to the trees- they get darker and more saturated.  Also, use dodge/burn to create direction: what does this shot say to you?

I think that turning this into a presentation of abstraction, rather than one of fact, would help.

John

[shutterpup]

Pup, It's better, but I'm not thrilled with the position of the subject. I'd move him a bit to the left -- actually about a third of the way from the right side (this is one place where the rule of thirds actually would help), and I might bring into the picture what looks like a teddy bear behind him and to his right. I might also hack off a bit of the bottom.

Russ,
From the cropaholic, this is the way the original was framed. What I don't like about it is the woman's head on the right edge; this bothers me, and if I crop her out, I cut him off too. Cropping the bottom though may be an improvement. What teddy bear are you referring to? This guy was the one in charge of carrying the canoes to the river's edge, getting people settled, telling them what to do. He let me know I was constantly in his way, even though I kept checking where he was and what he was doing. If I took even one step back, I was into the rocks lining the edge of the river.

[wolfnowl]

Mike,
I have numerous shots of the cliffs as you have described. They strike me as incomplete. My intent here was to get the flavor of what the canoers would see as they put their boats in and set down around the bend. And there is the intrigue of "What indeed lies around that bend?"

Yes, but you were there, and so you have a memory, a series of sense experiences tied to this image.  People who weren't there with you won't have that sense or those memories.  It's vitally important as a photographer to stand back from your work so to speak and be able to look at it objectively.  It's also a very hard lesson to learn!  After all, we all want to 'own' our work...

Mike.

[oldcsar]

This is another shot of yours where I'd say it'd work better as a landscape, not portrait (but the vertical does add a little more drama to the bluish cliffs). With that said, I do think that it has some interesting compositional elements... the irregular layering of color and texture from top to bottom, as my eyes move from the top left, to the off-center tree with its roots in the stream, and then following the stream and shore to the lower left corner. Additionally, these groupings of color contribute red, green, and blue, which is quite nice.

The problem comes down to when my eyes follow the top left corner down towards the bend in the stream... my eyes are compelled to follow it, but unfortunately my view of the bend itself is incomplete. Was there a tree or other obstruction that you cropped out? Otherwise, I don't understand why you would stop there rather than include more of the bend itself.

edit: checked out the second version, and that solves my question. I think that if you incorporated that tree angled over the water in the foreground as a primary focal object, with the same sort of vision as the original crop but zoomed out, it would have been a better shot... but just my two cents. And for the record, I prefer the idea of this scene without people or canoes.

[Ed Blagden]

Pup,

I won't add to the comments on composition, but I will say that you could do yourself a big favour by thinking more about light quality, and the time of day you make photographs.

When I looked at the first image I thought everything looked hard, flat, washed out and generally boring, and when I look at the angle of the shadows in the second uncropped picture I know why: the picture must have been taken very close to midday.

Now there are exceptions to this rule, but in general, pictures taken around midday look boring and unpleasant, and no amount of photoshopping can change that.  The golden hours are early morning and late afternoon; everything comes alive then, and even if the composition is a little off, a picture taken at these hours can look great if the subject is good.  A midday picture, on the other hand, has little chance of success.

Now I know it is not always possible to manage your time to be in the right place when you need to be, but in my view Landscape photography needs to be planned, it doesn't just happen by accident.  When you plan your day, think about where the sun is going to be at what time, where the likely good scenes are going to be found, and then try and plan your day so that everything comes together at the right moment.  If this means getting up at 4am sometimes, or getting home later than you would like, so be it.  Photography has its costs as well as its rewards.

I hope this helps.


Ed

[shutterpup]

To all,
Thank you for your responses. I am realizing more and more that when I look through the viewfinder to compose a shot, I am coming up short by either excluding things that should be there, or including things that shouldn't. My husband, and fellow photo enthusiast, says that I have a mentality that says I can just crop later. He, on the other hand, rarely gets the stray, unwanted artifact in his shots. What has been said here just reinforces the fact that I need to start really seeing what I'm doing, not just recording a response to an emotional moment without consideration of everything there.

All I can do is keep evaluating my shots and keep shooting, always keeping in mind what I'm learning and what is before me.

[cmi]

To all,
Thank you for your responses. I am realizing more and more that when I look through the viewfinder to compose a shot, I am coming up short by either excluding things that should be there, or including things that shouldn't. My husband, and fellow photo enthusiast, says that I have a mentality that says I can just crop later. He, on the other hand, rarely gets the stray, unwanted artifact in his shots. What has been said here just reinforces the fact that I need to start really seeing what I'm doing, not just recording a response to an emotional moment without consideration of everything there.

All I can do is keep evaluating my shots and keep shooting, always keeping in mind what I'm learning and what is before me.

I dont know if thats relevant for you: Everybody may develop or have completely different ways approaching a subject or the subject of photography as a whole, and developing his own language. So dont compare yourself too much with others. And you dont believe how much I crop despite Im trying not to do so. This develops over time.

[shutterpup]

I dont know if thats relevant for you: Everybody may develop or have completely different ways approaching a subject or the subject of photography as a whole, and developing his own language. So dont compare yourself too much with others. And you dont believe how much I crop despite Im trying not to do so. This develops over time.

Christian,
Good advice. I'm not sure at all that I have the heart, mind, or eye of a landscape photographer. I seem to have a different take on everything I see from anyone around me; I think here of my husband. I will take your advice not to compare myself too much with others. However, as I write that, I know that I need to study the basics more thoroughly so I can apply them to my way of seeing that will make my voice stronger.

[cmi]

Christian,
Good advice. I'm not sure at all that I have the heart, mind, or eye of a landscape photographer. I seem to have a different take on everything I see from anyone around me; I think here of my husband. I will take your advice not to compare myself too much with others. However, as I write that, I know that I need to study the basics more thoroughly so I can apply them to my way of seeing that will make my voice stronger.

The basics are important no question, I slowly grasp on these as well. I was saying this as your images remind me of some of my own. I have often throught, wow, this looks nice - and made images at perfectly normal places to discover that it looked quite normal afterwards. Im know someone else could for example focus on some detail somewhere in this same scene and make an image I could not do at all, because he sees or feels something that is not relevant to me now. I might even find the image nice but at the same time it might not reflect what I am and what I feel at my particular point. My take is just different, to use your words, and I need to come to appreciate that. Might sound strange, but at least me struggles sometimes to appreciate the own imagery. For another person this might be different, but for me all this as I told it was important to realize.

But enough said, have a nice day

[shutterpup]

The basics are important no question, I slowly grasp on these as well. I was saying this as your images remind me of some of my own. I have often throught, wow, this looks nice - and made images at perfectly normal places to discover that it looked quite normal afterwards. Im know someone else could for example focus on some detail somewhere in this same scene and make an image I could not do at all, because he sees or feels something that is not relevant to me now. I might even find the image nice but at the same time it might not reflect what I am and what I feel at my particular point. My take is just different, to use your words, and I need to come to appreciate that. Might sound strange, but at least me struggles sometimes to appreciate the own imagery. For another person this might be different, but for me all this as I told it was important to realize.

But enough said, have a nice day

Well said. Thank you for the encouragement as I find my voice.

[wolfnowl]

To all,
Thank you for your responses. I am realizing more and more that when I look through the viewfinder to compose a shot, I am coming up short by either excluding things that should be there, or including things that shouldn't. My husband, and fellow photo enthusiast, says that I have a mentality that says I can just crop later. He, on the other hand, rarely gets the stray, unwanted artifact in his shots. What has been said here just reinforces the fact that I need to start really seeing what I'm doing, not just recording a response to an emotional moment without consideration of everything there.

All I can do is keep evaluating my shots and keep shooting, always keeping in mind what I'm learning and what is before me.

We've all done it, and those of us who are dedicated continue to stretch our abilities, every time.  Look on the bright side... in the age of digital cameras we no longer have to shoot a roll or 10 or... of chromes, take them back home, put them in the photo mailer and send them to Kodak, wait patiently for a couple of weeks for the little white or yellow plastic box of slides to arrive, grab a loupe and THEN analyze what we did right or wrong!!

Mike.

[shutterpup]

We've all done it, and those of us who are dedicated continue to stretch our abilities, every time.  Look on the bright side... in the age of digital cameras we no longer have to shoot a roll or 10 or... of chromes, take them back home, put them in the photo mailer and send them to Kodak, wait patiently for a couple of weeks for the little white or yellow plastic box of slides to arrive, grab a loupe and THEN analyze what we did right or wrong!!

Mike.

How true, how true. It was exactly my frustration with that very process when shooting film back in the 80's that sent me away from photography altogether until my husband surprised me with a new DSLR last March. I'm still getting used to the fact that I don't have to monitor the quantity of shots taken, only quality which is as close as my computer. I know for many, the digital age is seen as a not-so-good thing; for me, it has sent me back to an interest in photography.

[jasonrandolph]

No one is born with a photographer's eye.  It is a skill that is developed over time.  If you're shooting images and you care about making a quality image, then your eye is still in development.  Mine is.  That is why forums like this are so valuable to me.  I can share my work and then let others evaluate it.  Listen to what they say, so that when you're in the field next time, some of the advice will stick in your head.  It's clear that you want to make something more than a snapshot, so keep shooting!

Here are a few points of advice that I use that have helped me:
1.  Study the work of your favorite photographers.  Buy their books (photo essays and collections, not instructional books) and ask yourself what attracts you to their work.  Study their compositions and techniques.  You don't necessarily have to try and emulate them in the field, but it will teach you to "see".
2.  Take your time.  Set up the shot, look through the viewfinder, and look at all the elements in the viewfinder.  Separate yourself mentally from the world around you, and only on what you see in the camera.  Ask yourself, "What is the subject?"  How can I simplify the image and focus attention on the subject?  If you find things you don't like, eliminate them, or draw attention away from them.  Teach yourself to "crop" in-camera.  Invest time in the shot.  Some shots take minutes or hours to get exactly right.  That is the price sometimes of a really great image.
3.  After the image is shot, review it.  Look at the histogram and make sure you have a good exposure.  Evaluate the results.  Is there an element that you don't like that maybe you didn't see before?  Ask yourself if this is what you visualized when you snapped the shutter.  If not, fix it and reshoot.  Don't rely on Photoshop to make a throw-away into a fine photograph.  Remember, garbage in-garbage out.
4.  Don't be afraid of failure.  Not every shot has to be a winner.  My personal goal is to get at least one really good shot every time I shoot.  I've made thousands of images, and the vast majority are never seen by anyone but me.  Learn to edit your work objectively, and don't be afraid of coming away with nothing.  And don't be afraid of negative responses.  It's almost never personal, and others' objectivity is a valuable resource.  At least you'll know what didn't work !

shutterpup, it is clear that you have the drive to make great images.  I hope you'll continue to drive yourself to improvement.  Shoot enough and dedicate yourself to improvement, and you are bound to succeed.  I hope all of these comments can help you.  Let criticism guide you to better results.  Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts.  It takes time and a LOT of exposures.  But you CAN improve and you CAN succeed!