5D2 Profile for C1 available for test

[eronald]

Hi folks,

 I have made a 5D2 profile for use in Capture One for testing purposes. This is a first attempt and I need some feedback from people with good eyes. Don't hesitate to post and inform me of the errors of my ways

 Profile was made with C1 4.6.3, should work for other versions. I expect it to be dreadful, but I need your comments so I can edit it.

 The file is here:

 https://www.yousendit.com/download/MnFoeFVTTk03N0IzZUE9PQ

Edmund

[mmurph]

Thank you very much for sharing!

I still have to buy my 5DII, guess this is enough kick in the butt to get me to order it.  I haven't been working, I am off on "medical" till September, but it is inevitable anyway.  Maybe I can put away the 4x5 for the summer for personal work?

So don't count on feedback from me too soon, but I do appreciate your sharing!

Best,
Michael

[madmanchan]

John, what specifically is wrong with the Adobe color for the 5D II?

[eronald]

The profile I have published today has *less* luminance than my old 5D profile. That profile had the advantage of allowing you to gain 1/2 stop in ISO, with a high-key look for caucasian skin, with magenta cast removed to  boot.  I can understand why you wouldn't have wanted any of that.

My profiles generally are *not* replacements,, they are made with different tools, edited somewhat idiosyncratically to my own taste in fashion shooting, and will especially render skin tones differently from the C1 ones. Actually, guess what? That's why I make them

Edmund

Edmund,

It's a holiday weekend in the U.S. so my cameras are put away. But I'll try the profile this week and send my experience.

I used your 5D profile in 3.7.x for a bit several years ago. I did like it for the most part. The elevation in luminance became a problem for me. If I tethered and used that 5D profile and then later chose a different profile all the files would then be presented a half stop or more underexposed with the Phase profiles.

But I did find the color pleasing for skin tones.

I find right now, that the Phase 5DII profile is quite pleasing. It may not be technically accurate, but neither was film, and the current profile shows very nice color for the primaries, noticeable in foliage, blue skies and certainly shows reds in a way I prefer. Adobe color is just gawd awful. By far the Achilles heel to Lightroom. If the Phase color engine and raw processing were a plugin to Lightroom, things would be damn near perfect. For now I output tiffs from CO 4.8 and send to LR for final tweaking.

[archivue]

to be very accurate, the profile should be use with the same lens and same type of light  isn't it ?

[mmurph]

John, what specifically is wrong with the Adobe color for the 5D II?

Eric, I have to say that the Adobe custom profiles that I have used for the 40D are fantastic!  A big "thank you" for those tools, I think they are your baby in many ways?    

I posted elsewhere today that, despite shooting Canon digital since the D30 in 2002, I never really used the Canon profiles - landscape, portrait, etc.  I always shot RAW, so I was rather oblivious to the fact that they even existed.  I was aware of the Kodak color profile "Looks" around the time of the 14N. (I did tweak my Canon JPEG settings to get a more usable histogram for my RAW.)

Your implementation of the equivalent profiles in Lightroom are well executed and very useful.  I can't compare to the Canon profiles, never having used them, but the ability to subtly tweak saturation, contrast, and alter specific color relationshops is quite welcome.  

I could see using the Adobe DNG editor to further tweak and expand a custom portfolio to invent and maintain a photogs unique style, which has sometimes been a challange when upgrading (I remember much whining at RG when the 1DsII came out. Some claimed it took them a year to nail their "look" again when switching from the 1Ds.  I am somewhat skeptical of that I guess ...)  

I'll pull up my 1DsII files and have a look at those profiles in Lightroom.  

As mentioned, I have not been working lately, but will pick up a 5DII soon - I'll test those too ASAP. I have actually been off of work for almost 2 1/2 years (since I closed my studio), so I have had a lot of time to "play" - learning Lightroom 2.0, testing 50+ papers on my 3 Epson wide formats, creating custom profiles, mixing my own inks, etc.  Just wish my memory was better so I didn't have to keep learning the same thing over and over again.  

Cheers!  Many thanks.

Best,
Michael

[eronald]

To get back on topic, has anyone looked at the posted 5D2 profile, and can comment on it?

Edmund

[tho_mas]

Profile was made with C1 4.6.3, should work for other versions.

based on which film curve? Actually one should set the "linear response" film curve for the creation of profiles (at least if you start with a new profile from scratch) but I'd assume with your profile the "standard" film curve should be set...?
Just out of curiosity: are you sure about the reddish white point Lab 98/3/-1?

[eronald]

based on which film curve? Actually one should set the "linear response" film curve for the creation of profiles (at least if you start with a new profile from scratch) but I'd assume with your profile the "standard" film curve should be set...?
Just out of curiosity: are you sure about the reddish white point Lab 98/3/-1?

So, you're telling me the white point is off? This is interesting feedback indeed. I'll check that, thank you.
I think I need to take another test shot anyway.
This profile is intended to be used with the standard film curve.

Edmund

[tho_mas]

So, you're telling me the white point is off?

yep:
[attachment=13958:screen.JPG]

[terence_patrick]

John, what specifically is wrong with the Adobe color for the 5D II?

I'm not John, but from my POV ACR/LR's color for the 5DII tends to be closer to what I would find from Canon's DPP or a JPG output from the camera itself whereas C1 has a different rendition all together, somewhere closer to what I would get shooting a portrait-type of color negative film, i.e.: muted tones that have a more subtle effect even when saturation sliders are pushed high. In C1, red hues seem to be more neutral or in the orange side and greens are closer to yellow than cyan.

ACR/LR's color simply tends to saturate too much too quickly in unnatural hues and requires more fine tuning per-image. I spent weeks with several test images trying to build color profiles with the DNG editor, but could never find a one-size-fits-all profile when it comes to images lit by the sun vs. strobe vs. Kino Flo vs. mixed lighting. In comparison, C1 has been able to achieve the color I'm looking for in a quicker, less fussy way. I'm glad there's options out there for such subjective handling of images and I'm not specifically looking to have changes made to ACR/LR since it works for so many others. Happy there are people like Eric to browse forums to hear what users think, though. Cheers!

[terence_patrick]

I don't have any scientific way of testing your profile other than opening an image I have that I consider a reasonably tough image to get right. It's shot at high noon here in L.A. of people standing in front of a bush that have highlights, shadows, skin tones, and other colors to deal with. The top image is what C1 opens up with using the standard 5DII generic profile. The bottom is Edmund's profile. On my Apple Cinema Display profiled with the Monaco XRite EZColor system, Edmund's profile tends to block up the blacks and produces an overly contrasty image in general. Both images are using the Film Standard curve.

[attachment=13971:Picture_1.png]

[narikin]

on the quickest of looks, its WAY out of wack for me. very heavy shadows, pulling mid tones down into darkness, and too contrasty.
thats a quick look only, its so far out its not worth going into finer details or even looking at the color tuning.

viewing on C1 4.8

you did say you "expect it to be dreadful" and I now know what you meant, though I do appreciate you trying it out on the group.