kick back

[tcphoto]

The way I see it, bad behavior only results in more bad behavior. If I were to pay the AD/ Extortionists 10% I would be compelled to raise my rate to account for the fee. Then the AD would badmouth me because I would then be perceived as being too expensive to work with. The AD would then come back and tell me that the Agency is concerned and thinks that I am screwing up a good thing but still wants his/her 10%. Depending on my next action, it may turn into an actual crime by conspiring to rip the Agency off in order to pay the AD's kickback. It simply turns into a vicious circle and face it, there is no honor among thieves.

[mcfoto]

Yeh One shitty end of the business. Years ago it used to Coke,Alcohol,Hookers and Discos...:+}
RE: Miami Beach...:+]
Still is in some groups.
I try everyday to make my business a One man job b/c I hate to have to pay some lazy *** for the in between.
Most Big agencies are Pathetic and just copy other Big ads, Wow really difficult and they get paid Big $$ for offering a copy of other campaigns.
Happens to me everyday.. I get a couple of Vogues pictures or ads and they want me to copy it but with their shitty clothing..
But Like Andre mentioned, you might be gaining 90% of what you did not have. But for the guy to mention it so obviuosly is crooked if you ask me!!
These guys should be taken out back and their legs Broken like the good ole days...:+}

Snook

This post has been edited by a Moderator. Do not use profane offensive language in this Forum.[/i]

Hi Snook
Very well said. I am hearing of kick backs here in Sydney too. Copying of tear sheets has been going on for years here in Sydney which makes my blood boil! This just drives the industry down.
Cheers Denis

[geotzo]

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that where i come from, this is not just common practise but an absolut must! Agents, ad agensies and all kinds of people in between me and the client earn more than I do 90% of the times. I usually earn 30-50% of what the client pays for the job... how does that sound? When I first started to work here (being in the UK for over a decade), I tried avoiding all this weird relasioships till I found I would get no good assignments cause the entire market is being controled by agencies. I mean I even got phone call threats when I knocked at doors I shouldn't have! Anyways, I learned to play the game, before I run myself out of buisness. Yes I only get 30-50%, which is mostly good for this kind of tight market, but there are people who bring me work all the time, enough to pay the bills. I know it is bad I know it shouldn't be that way, but its too complicated to change. One decides not to follow that, he ll end up loosing most of the comissions he could do. But maybe that doesn't happen in most countries as far as I see in this topic.
George

[geesbert]

Last night I got the email telling me I didn't get the job. I guess he found someone who gave him what he wanted.

I am happy i resisted

[Geoffrey]

Seems we're dancing around the issue a bit. So how about some definition:

If its a bribe or kickback, the OP has to decide if they want to do business that way. I don't, never have, but its not unheard of. Participating in it has its benefits (you get to play) at the cost of bad ethical position. The relationship of ethics to business practice have been well studied over many years:while good ethics can be costly in a bad scenario, they are supposed to be worthwhile. Each their own. Its only been a debate for the past three millenia. People do illegal things for all sorts of reasons.

- if its a "discount", then its quite possibly a reasonable position to be discussed: "you were bought directly, will you lower your price?". There is a reasonable, if unpleasant, reality here - it might be true, it might be worthwhile.... if business is slow, people will negotiate prices. Some never do... but some do. That's not necessarily wrong, and is certainly a point that one can discuss and ethically participate in.

Sussing out the difference between these two is the delicate part. If the client is willing to accept an invoice that shows clearly the reduction in price, then its a negotiation. If the AD wants it off the top, on the side, in cash.... then its clearly something else.

One way to handle this is to move discussions from the first category into the second: offer to write up the invoice with a discount, thus showing willingness to accept the reduction in price, but an unwillingness to participate in something off the books (and likely illegal and immoral). Often, if handled carefully, the request will disappear, amidst quiet embarassment.

That the request is wrong is not to deny that it sometimes happen. Less these days than it used to... and yet probably not unheard of. I'm not condoning it in any way, but just acknowledging the dilemma the OP put up. Its ugly, big league. The short answer is find different clients. The longer answer is to try to move the request from the back room into the light of day, where it can be addressed legitimately.

Geoff

[HiltonP]

. . . in the European Union bribery, even at business level, is ILLEGAL.

. . . in Germany the Anti-Corruption law is part of the criminal code and offenses can be punished with jail time.

Then you clearly have never worked with the German armaments industry!