H3DII-60, said to be coming in April 2009

[BJL]

The Hasselblad H3DII-60 was announced last September as coming in April 2009.
It is now very late in April: does anyone have an updated ETA?

[photolinia]

The Hasselblad H3DII-60 was announced last September as coming in April 2009.
It is now very late in April: does anyone have an updated ETA?

Earlier this week I was at a Hasselblad event.  They said that the new release date is likely in September.

-ilya

[andershald]

Well obviously Hasselblad hasn't spotted the latest trend: Announce a product when available. See the P40+ from Phase One: "New P40+ back, it's here, buy it today!"

That's is how to do it  

[mcfoto]

What I have heard is that Hasselblad now has access to the 60 mp Dalsa chip. The same chip that is used in the P65+. The sensor plus technology will only be on the Phase backs. This is what I have been told.
Denis

[Boris_Epix]

Well obviously Hasselblad hasn't spotted the latest trend: Announce a product when available. See the P40+ from Phase One: "New P40+ back, it's here, buy it today!"

That's is how to do it  

The funny thing is that Hasselblad used to do that: Announce when it's ready.

Then PhaseOne came and promised to pre-announce new models 18 months ahead and suggested other back manufacturers to follow.
Funny. That NEVER happened. Well maybe one thing they kinda pre-announced was the wireless module announced for the P+ versions that never made it to the dealers.  

I even remember a statement back then from Hasselblad that they announce new products when they are ready.

Now suddenly the game has turned... Hasselblad is announcing vaporware because they have fallen behind in the MEGAPIXEL race and Phase is delivering. They try to keep people away from upgrading to the P65+. Do they still think megapixels are all that counts? And that you can keep people from walking forward with a pre-announcement?

Marketingwise both companies are doing a horrible job. It doesn't seem that they have a communication concept. They should hire professionals to do it.

For example I get the PhaseOne newsletter but I find no newsletter about the P40+. Quite many Phase One dealers are not even listing the P40+ yet on their webpages. There is no communication going out to the people that might be interested.

There's just so much wrong in this industry.

[Kitty]

What I have heard is that Hasselblad now has access to the 60 mp Dalsa chip. The same chip that is used in the P65+. The sensor plus technology will only be on the Phase backs. This is what I have been told.
Denis

Is there any update about new 60mp?
Dasla chip same to P65+?
Price?
When?
Speed?
Any technical info?

Planning for new digital back. I would love to get more info.

TIA

[mcfoto]

Is there any update about new 60mp?
Dasla chip same to P65+?
Price?
When?
Speed?
Any technical info?

Planning for new digital back. I would love to get more info.

TIA

Hi
The other question will be the use of the 28 & 35-90 lens as these have been designed for the 36x48 chip, this chip (60mp) is  40.4 x 53.9. Using these two lenses would generate a file of 50-55 mp, not 60 mp? Time will only tell.
Denis
 

[Graham Mitchell]

Hi
The other question will be the use of the 28 & 35-90 lens as these have been designed for the 36x48 chip, this chip (60mp) is  40.4 x 53.9. Using these two lenses would generate a file of 50-55 mp, not 60 mp? Time will only tell.
Denis

Actually 47.6MP using the numbers you supplied  Not enough of a jump over 39MP to make it worthwhile if you plan to use these lenses a lot, imo.

It would be a pain to have to crop this manually for every frame. I expect this exact crop could be built into Phocus.

[mcfoto]

Actually 47.6MP using the numbers you supplied  Not enough of a jump over 39MP to make it worthwhile if you plan to use these lenses a lot, imo.

It would be a pain to have to crop this manually for every frame. I expect this exact crop could be built into Phocus.

Hi
Yes based on that the 36x48 is 20% less in size over the 60mp. However the 60 mp is 6 microns vrs the 39 mp @ 6.8 microns. The new 50 mp H3DIII chip is 6 microns so maybe if you used the 28 mm on the H3DII-60 you would get a 50mp file. As both the Kodax & Dalsa new chips are 6 microns. See Michaels article http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...announced.shtml
Denis

[Graham Mitchell]

Hi
Yes based on that the 36x48 is 20% less in size over the 60mp. However the 60 mp is 6 microns vrs the 39 mp @ 6.8 microns. The new 50 mp H3DIII chip is 6 microns so maybe if you used the 28 mm on the H3DII-60 you would get a 50mp file. As both the Kodax & Dalsa new chips are 6 microns. See Michaels article http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...announced.shtml
Denis

I'm not sure why you are arguing with my figure before even doing the maths yourself. My figure wasn't a guess, it was the answer.

Calculation is:

60 * ((48 x 36)/(40.4 x 53.9)) = 47.6

[Nick_T]

I'm not sure why you are arguing with my figure before even doing the maths yourself. My figure wasn't a guess, it was the answer.

Calculation is:

60 * ((48 x 36)/(40.4 x 53.9)) = 47.6

Note the zoom will only produce a cropped file at the widest focal length. I would expect the cropped files to be closer to 55MP.
Nick-T

[Peartree]

Earlier this week I was at a Hasselblad event.  They said that the new release date is likely in September.

-ilya

Trust me, the guys at Phase One are the Godfathers of Vapourware, I remember when I was working with  Sinar they got a 12 month exclusive deal on the Kodak 22 MP sensor, should have been rich pickings for Sinar but Phase One Spoiled the party by announcing their own 22mp back even though they new they wouldn't have it for at least a Year!! they sold the P25 (22mp) and offered their clients a loan P20 (16mp) while they waited and waited and waited...... many customers complained as they couldn't understand why it was taking so long to get their back they had forked out a lot of money for! (If only they new what we new!)
Lawrie

[ThierryH]

I can only confirm this affirmation.

Best regards,
Thierry

Trust me, the guys at Phase One are the Godfathers of Vapourware, I remember when I was working with  Sinar they got a 12 month exclusive deal on the Kodak 22 MP sensor, should have been rich pickings for Sinar but Phase One Spoiled the party by announcing their own 22mp back even though they new they wouldn't have it for at least a Year ...
Lawrie

[Graham Mitchell]

Wow, that's underhanded...

[Ken Doo]

Trust me, the guys at Phase One are the Godfathers of Vapourware, I remember when I was working with  Sinar they got a 12 month exclusive deal on the Kodak 22 MP sensor, should have been rich pickings for Sinar but Phase One Spoiled the party ....

I think this is making some leaps in logic---both that Phase One spoiled Sinar's "party/rich pickings" or that this applies to the situation with Hasselblad's release of their 60MP MFDB.  First, Hassy hasn't spoiled Phase's party---they are having no problems selling the P65+ and indeed they have a wait-list of orders to fulfill.  (And I have no doubts the Hassy 60MP equivalent will be a great performer too).  Second, your assumption is that clients would automatically buy Sinar but for Phase's pre-announcement.  And that's simply a leap in logic.  There are other alternatives to a MFDB platform (in otherwords, if they don't buy Phase does not mean they have to buy Sinar....you still have options with Leaf, Hassy...), and a pre-release announcement can cut both ways.  At some point (regardless of announcements) a product sells based on its performance and ability to satisfy the needs of its target audience.  If you don't produce or you don't perform, then you lose.

And actually, I think Mamiya wins the vaporware award.  Remember the ZD announcement?  As I recall it was about three years before one rolled out to the US after its announcement....

 

[ThierryH]

Not exactly a "leap in logic", Ken: when Sinar announced the new Sinarback 22,2 MPx, the highest res back was 16 MPx with a SQUARE sensor. Crop this to a rectangular format, and you shall have an idea of the difference with the existing products from the competition at that time. It was a real breakthrough in this field, and I am not ashamed to say that even TODAY, the SB 54 produces the best files of all existing in the market (especially the multishot version).

In other words: there was NO alternative in the market, back then. And NONE of the competitors had any equivalent product to propose. And speaking about the "needs of the targeted audience", the need WAS there, for a 22 MPx.

Best regards,
Thierry

... And that's simply a leap in logic.  There are other alternatives to a MFDB platform (in otherwords, if they don't buy Phase does not mean they have to buy Sinar....you still have options with Leaf, Hassy...), and a pre-release announcement can cut both ways.  At some point (regardless of announcements) a product sells based on its performance and ability to satisfy the needs of its target audience.  If you don't produce or you don't perform, then you lose.

[Ken Doo]

Not exactly a "leap in logic", Ken: when Sinar announced the new Sinarback 22,2 MPx, the highest res back was 16 MPx with a SQUARE sensor. Crop this to a rectangular format, and you shall have an idea of the difference with the existing products from the competition at that time. It was a real breakthrough in this field, and I am not ashamed to say that even TODAY, the SB 54 produces the best files of all existing in the market (especially the multishot version).

In other words: there was NO alternative in the market, back then. And NONE of the competitors had any equivalent product to propose. And speaking about the "needs of the targeted audience", the need WAS there, for a 22 MPx.

Best regards,
Thierry

I don't think Sinar's "party" was necessarily ruined by a competitor's pre-release announcement (that's where the leap in logic remains).  At some point, consumers are smart enough to get past the verbage and hoopla, and this is where the rubber meets the road.  And this is also why I emphasized, supra, (in italics):   At some point (regardless of announcements) a product sells based on its performance and ability to satisfy the needs of its target audience. If you don't produce or you don't perform, then you lose.

[Steve Hendrix]

I think when it comes to "vaporware" no manufacturer can claim an exclusive. Since this is the medium format thread, I can tell you from my experience with all of them and with absolute certainty that all 4 of the players - Yes, Phase One, Leaf, Sinar, Hasselblad, have dabbled in the vaporware process.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

[ThierryH]

That was not my point at all, Ken. No, "the party was not ruined", although certainly not completely harmless. It was rather question about "Godfathers of Vapourware".
We simply "noticed" this behavior, and I must say that I was shocked to hear this everywhere with people apparently "buying" and believing it. Therefore I am not as sure as yourself about all being "smart enough to get past the verbage".

Best regards,
Thierry

I don't think Sinar's "party" was necessarily ruined by a competitor's pre-release announcement ...

[ThierryH]

Steve,

I guess we have to re-define the term vaporware: for me it is (pre)announcing a product which one exactly knows that one does not have it (no roadmap or other plans for it, no R&D done and moreover, NO hardware available) and with no chance to have it any time soon. In our case of the 22,2 MPx sensor it was a time frame of 1 year exclusivity + the additional time needed thereafter to design the product, after this sensor being available for all.

I put you on the test to tell one single product announced as vaporware by Sinar. I agree that there were/are many delays for many products, but in this particular case of the 22 MPx sensor, we are speaking about something completely different.

Actually I could not care less now, but truth has to be said.

Best regards,
Thierry

I think when it comes to "vaporware" no manufacturer can claim an exclusive. Since this is the medium format thread, I can tell you from my experience with all of them and with absolute certainty that all 4 of the players - Yes, Phase One, Leaf, Sinar, Hasselblad, have dabbled in the vaporware process.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One