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Author Topic: Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010  (Read 3897 times)

Kim Bentsen

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« on: September 21, 2009, 05:35:48 pm »

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Ben Rubinstein

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 06:38:06 pm »

I actually really like the look of the ergonomics of that camera.
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Steve Hendrix

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 06:59:02 pm »

Quote from: Kim Bentsen
For those wanting a more affordable medium format system.

http://www.translate.google.com/translate?...history_state0=

http://www.kamerabild.se/nyheter/kameror/J...r-1.242530.html


At the risk of extending yet another Pentax - This time we really mean it  mfd camera announcement thread, what are you basing the "more affordable medium format system" on? I didn't see any pricing listed anywhere.


Steve Hendrix
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Voltman

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 07:55:30 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
At the risk of extending yet another Pentax - This time we really mean it  mfd camera announcement thread, what are you basing the "more affordable medium format system" on? I didn't see any pricing listed anywhere.


Steve Hendrix

Their previous announcements had said less than $10K ....

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Kim Bentsen

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2009, 05:01:58 am »

The comment was related to the translated text "Pentax is aiming to take market at the lower end among medium format cameras".

The camera is likely to be in a more affordable market segment. It was not a jab at the competition  

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
At the risk of extending yet another Pentax - This time we really mean it  mfd camera announcement thread, what are you basing the "more affordable medium format system" on? I didn't see any pricing listed anywhere.

Steve Hendrix
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tbosley

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2009, 10:57:18 am »

Unable to pull up the translations, but are they planning to deliver in the U.S. market?  From what I've seen lately- its hard to find Pentax at any North America shops (US/Can.)

I have no problem with the look, but just feel they missed their window years ago...
They do have several lenses that I would love to use, but I am content with Mamiya for now.
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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2009, 11:18:15 am »

Quote from: Kim Bentsen
The comment was related to the translated text "Pentax is aiming to take market at the lower end among medium format cameras".

The camera is likely to be in a more affordable market segment. It was not a jab at the competition  

I'm not bashing Pentax and they would not necessarily be a competitor, indeed they could even be one of our product lines. But to announce again after years of unrealized announcements in September of 2009 - just before the major photo trade shows - that the product will ship sometime in 2010 strikes me as crying wolf yet again. It's a mirror of the Mamiya ZD likely with the same issue of component obsolescence due to ship dates extended by years and years.

I really do hope they produce another excellent option for the photographic community.


Steve Hendrix
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ThierryH

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2009, 11:30:00 am »

I just would like to remind here, that the very same (camera/product) had already been announced and showed as mockup (behind closed glass) at the different PIE exhibitions in the years 2007 and 2006 ...!, with the very same information, that it was soon to be released.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
... to announce again after years of unrealized announcements in September of 2009 - just before the major photo trade shows - that the product will ship sometime in 2010 strikes me as crying wolf yet again.
Steve Hendrix
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bcooter

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2009, 02:58:38 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
I'm not bashing Pentax and they would not necessarily be a competitor, indeed they could even be one of our product lines. But to announce again after years of unrealized announcements in September of 2009 - just before the major photo trade shows - that the product will ship sometime in 2010 strikes me as crying wolf yet again. It's a mirror of the Mamiya ZD likely with the same issue of component obsolescence due to ship dates extended by years and years.

I really do hope they produce another excellent option for the photographic community.


Steve Hendrix


You have to admit this is funny you would say this, especially with your experience in working with all the specialty camera makers.

All of medium format rarely meets deadlines, product date delivery, at least in full 100% promised working order.  It always seems to come in sections, i.e. sensor plus, or leaf shutter lenses, right angle grips etc. etc.

I think most of us have just come to understand that with specialty cameras there is a long wait from announce to delivery on the shelves.

As far as Pentax it would be nice to see them back, though I agree that by the time it probably hits, Canon or Nikon or Sony will already have 35mpx cameras that shoot video and probably be selling them on every corner.

It was kind of the same with the Mamiya ZD, but holds true for most specialty cameras, except the very, very top of the line like the p65+ you reference.

The AFI and Leaf's rotating sensor died before it ever really became available and if you went back over the history of this stuff, there would be a very long list of what did, did not make it into the mainstream.

Even Leica has a Camera, one lens, with the rest tbd.

I think that's just the way it works.  Most of us wish it didn't and most of us wish all the makers great success, but  . . .

BC
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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2009, 03:35:26 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
You have to admit this is funny you would say this, especially with your experience in working with all the specialty camera makers.

All of medium format rarely meets deadlines, product date delivery, at least in full 100% promised working order.  It always seems to come in sections, i.e. sensor plus, or leaf shutter lenses, right angle grips etc. etc.

I think most of us have just come to understand that with specialty cameras there is a long wait from announce to delivery on the shelves.

As far as Pentax it would be nice to see them back, though I agree that by the time it probably hits, Canon or Nikon or Sony will already have 35mpx cameras that shoot video and probably be selling them on every corner.

It was kind of the same with the Mamiya ZD, but holds true for most specialty cameras, except the very, very top of the line like the p65+ you reference.

The AFI and Leaf's rotating sensor died before it ever really became available and if you went back over the history of this stuff, there would be a very long list of what did, did not make it into the mainstream.

Even Leica has a Camera, one lens, with the rest tbd.

I think that's just the way it works.  Most of us wish it didn't and most of us wish all the makers great success, but  . . .

BC


I agree from the standpoint that no one wants to see new products not be successful.

But the examples of the ZD and the Pentax (as well as the Contax N1) differ in that these products weren't delayed by months, they were delayed by years and years - an average of 4 in most cases, hence my reaction. And in these cases, these products weren't even beginning from cutting edge technology anyway. The ZD began as 22MP of course, and is still at 22MP, some 5 or 6 years after announced. The Pentax began as an 18MP project and at some point morphed into a 30MP project. This was years and years ago. And they announce a release date in 2010. And who knows? I think Leica is slow out of the gate, but the gate is upon us at least. With Pentax, I will believe it when I see it. And if it's a great product, super - we'll take a look at it.

Like I said, I'm all for it succeeding. But so far they haven't done anything.

Steve Hendrix


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Voltman

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2009, 06:46:42 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
Like I said, I'm all for it succeeding. But so far they haven't done anything.

Steve, fair enough - without some retrospective on where Pentax has been as a business it's easy to dismiss yet another announcement.  However if you look at the timeline of their acquisition by Hoya and having to ramp up their DSLR business to make Hoya's board happy to stay in the camera business its easy to understand why an MF project would sit on the shelf so long.  Things are looking up for Hoya though on the back of Pentax camera division breaking even almost (finally):

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=arKvP8nRnpV0

Perhaps this camera is aimed towards the Japanese market - exactly where the Mamiya branded M18/22/31 seems to be, but at a much lower price point - albeit some compromises to be made which the average "pro-sumer" shooter may be willing to accept.  





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Steve Hendrix

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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2009, 07:25:41 pm »

Quote from: Voltman
Steve, fair enough - without some retrospective on where Pentax has been as a business it's easy to dismiss yet another announcement.  However if you look at the timeline of their acquisition by Hoya and having to ramp up their DSLR business to make Hoya's board happy to stay in the camera business its easy to understand why an MF project would sit on the shelf so long.  Things are looking up for Hoya though on the back of Pentax camera division breaking even almost (finally):

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=arKvP8nRnpV0

Perhaps this camera is aimed towards the Japanese market - exactly where the Mamiya branded M18/22/31 seems to be, but at a much lower price point - albeit some compromises to be made which the average "pro-sumer" shooter may be willing to accept.


Well, like I said, I'm all for it. And I probably shouldn't have even said anything.....sometimes I just can't help myself. As a dealer, we like to feel comfortable about new product prognosis before we embrace things. With no track record, we tend to wait and see before we buy in. Medium format as a segment always tends to have some sort of delays, but there is at least a track record of similar products already that have come to market (eventually) successfully. We are slowly warming to the Leica and will look at an S2 shortly to see if we feel comfortable enough to move forward on that product line.

I wish Pentax the best of luck and hope for the launch and success of this product (and future versions)!


Steve Hendrix
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bcooter

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2009, 11:55:33 am »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
But the examples of the ZD and the Pentax (as well as the Contax N1) differ in that these products weren't delayed by months, they were delayed by years and years - an average of 4 in most cases, hence my reaction.


Obviously there is no Pentax out there to judge or compare, but if they learned from the mistakes of the  ZD they might have something interesting.

Actually, had the Mamiya ZD just been built better and ready to go without issues it probably would have been successful if the price was competitive to the top of the line Canons or Nikons.

But it wasn't, it had a small limited lcd, smallish buffer, those Mamiya plastic lenses, low iso, a challenged workflow and the web lit up with quality issues the moment it came out.

But in reality the ZD was pretty much obsolete by the time they had it working, which doesn't mean it doesn't have value, it just means it's was a very limited camera.

Since we're talking about future cameras, I believe we're really at the start, not the middle or end of where these things are going and unless the Pentax, or any camera for that matter, comes out with features that are more than just megapixels or frame size, it's probably just another small niche camera that will appeal to a limited group.

What I would like to see is a camera that doesn't stop me from anything and that includes multi point autofocus (also in live view mode), obviously live view with a detailed zoom feature, a series of lenses that are more standard in their throw and diameters (like the Zeiss mini primes) and a solid workflow that is intuitive.

Since the start of digital capture, still and motion, it's been a process of make it up as we go along and though it's probably not in a manufacturer's best interest to standardize everything, from lens mounts to file format, it is in the users best interest.

As a working professional I can give you 20 reasons why I would shoot any camera and consequently 20 reasons why I wouldn't, even on the same project, but the one thing I need more than any feature is more time, or better put less time learning and adapting to new stuff, just for the sake of having new stuff.

If I look around my studio at the cameras I own, Leica, Nikon, Canon, Contax/Phase and today look at everything that is out there new there is not an actual compelling reason for me to change or add anything.  Sure a M9 is slightly better than an M8, a P40+ slightly better than a P30+ but not so far advanced that it's going to make that much difference in the work I do, or allow me to do something I can't do now.

The only camera I see that is even close to offering what I don't currently have is the Panasonic GH1 (I guess that's what it is called) because even though it's small, somewhat limited in still use, it will accept almost any lens, (including PL mounts), it will semi autofocus with live view and even though the camera may be out of date in a year, it almost warrants an investment in $30,000 worth of the new Cooke or Zeiss mini primes, because the PL mount is not going to become obsolete.

I'm not saying that the Panasonic is the all for everything camera, or the pinnacle because it's not, but if I was starting fresh with a new camera line or format, I would look at what this offers and try to take it up about 10 notches, because then it will be worth 10 times the price.

It's interesting that the cameras we like vs. the cameras we use.  I love the Contax, love the little Leica and use them less than any camera, just because they have certain limitations and I guess that's where I'm going with this, I don't understand any new camera at any price that has limitations.

IMO.

BC

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BJL

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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 12:36:08 pm »

The Pentax 645D, if it arrives soon enough, might not be as badly off as the Mamiya ZD. Its sensor is at least the same as in other current models like the Hasselblad H3DII-31, and the Pentax will likely cost less (and offer less expensive lenses.) Also, by offering a 55mm normal lens adapted specifically to its 44x33mm format, it might have some FOV choice advantages over cameras like the ZD, H3DII-31 and other DMF options in its price range.

The previous news was that the 645D would be released in Japan; the latest news expands that to the USA. It might still be aimed primarily at current Pentax 645 lens owners and enthusiasts, of which I believe Japan has a particularly high concentration. So much of the R&D was already done a few years ago (working prototypes were shown) that it probably costs very little more at this stage to get it  to market, even if only to recover some of the money already spent earlier.
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Voltman

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Pentax 645 confirmed for 2010
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 11:19:07 pm »

Quote from: Voltman
Their previous announcements had said less than $10K ....
Just found this:

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=868986

GBP 5000~6000 -

Wow....
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