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Author Topic: More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?  (Read 5248 times)

Rick Hearn

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« on: April 06, 2004, 07:37:55 pm »

Chrisso,

If you haven't read about it already the Epson R-D1 seems like it would be a closer fit to what you want. It accepts Leica lenses and has an optical viewfinder. The main shortcomings are that the image sensor is smaller than full frame (so there is a field of view multiplier), not all Leica lenses are compatible, and the rangefinder baseline is rather short which will hurt focusing accuracy.

Rick
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Rick Hearn

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2004, 02:05:20 pm »

Chrisso,

Your viewpoint is quite reasonable. Any compromise imposed by the R-D1 versus the M6 only makes sense if there is something gained to make up for it (particularly if the M6 is already paid for). For example, if you shoot many thousands of frames per year the cost of film and processing might be a big deal. Or you might live near Ayer's Rock and the nearest lab is three days trip by camel.

As always, the best choice of tool is entirely dependent on the task to be accomplished.

Rick
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chrisso

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2004, 06:03:18 am »

How does the Leica D1 compare?
They are presumably going cheaper these days.
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chrisso

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2004, 03:36:36 am »

Thanks Graham for the exhaustive and detailed report.
I guess now my only decision is between a D2 and the Epson.
 ???
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Telecaster

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2004, 08:03:13 pm »

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I found Ben Lifsons review somewhat narrow minded and a tad pretentious. The Leica M6 and this one are two completely different beasts, heck one is analogue and the other digital. If one already thinks that an M6 is the pinnacle of camera design, why bother reviewing other cameras?

--Chris.
I found Ben Lifson's evaluation rather dense, by which I mean it required a fair amount of concentration to read and absorb. But I think his point re. the responsiveness (or lack thereof) of the D2 is valid in context. Ben was hoping for a camera that behaves like a Leica M, and the D2 isn't that camera. This doesn't mean the D2 isn't a useful tool, and Ben says as much. It's just not, in his opinion, the appropriate tool for the particular style of photography he discusses in the article.

IMO we have to be careful not to generalize a person's comments when those comments are clearly not intended to be general in nature.

-Dave-
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Sean Reid

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2004, 06:24:14 pm »

Chrisso - thank you

Telecaster - dead on money with those comments

As for D2 vs. R-D1: many people will be debating that question.  I bought an LC1 but am very interested in the R-D1.

Cheers,

Sean Reid
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haika

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2004, 04:48:24 pm »

I have used the D2 for over two weeks and am thoroughly pleased with it. The reason may be that - and I assume this is unlike Ben Lifson - I did not expect it to be a digital M. I wanted to get a high quality, easy-to-carry digital camera with a conventional interface, and this is what I got.

However, Sean Reid's reviews were very helpful in my decision for this camera. Thanks, Sean! And thanks to Michael for offering these guides to make yet another choice ;-)

Cheers,
Günter
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chrisso

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2004, 03:47:45 pm »

On a recent holiday to Australia I briefly handled the new Leica D2.
OK, so I'm a digital virgin (more or less) and I certainly don't have the money for a 1DS. Here's my initial impression based on those provisos.
It's big....like twice the size of an M6. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.....probably bad.
The manual focussing ring is in the middle of the lens rings. Why?....because they think you wont use it that much?
The biggest minus for me was the EVF. I mean LAME. It was like looking through a cheap video camera. Not what I expect from Leica at all. Apart from the fact I heard other people found the electronic viewfinder hampered their work, I just found it deeply uninspiring. Again, not what I expect from Leica.....especially at that price point ($3,000 Aus Dollar).
I guess I'm still waiting for a decent range-finder style digi camera OR a digi camera that accepts M lenses (whichever comes first).
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chrisso

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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2004, 05:00:18 am »

Thanks Rick,
Yes I've read a bit.
Seems again like a compromise too far for those of us used to M6 excellence, especially at the price point.
But as I said, I'm a digi novice so I might be over stating the short comings.
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BruceK

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2004, 09:22:38 am »

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On a recent holiday to Australia I briefly handled the new Leica D2.
It's big....like twice the size of an M6. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.....probably bad.
The manual focussing ring is in the middle of the lens rings. Why?....because they think you wont use it that much?
The biggest minus for me was the EVF. I mean LAME. It was like looking through a cheap video camera.
I just received my used D2 and so far I love it! My thoughts on it:

It is certainly bigger than I'd like (nowhere near an M).

Regarding the focusing ring, there's three controls (aperture, focus and zoom). Any order is going to disappoint someone. To me their choice makes sense in that the user will always be using the zoom ring whether or not they use focus or aperture control.

And believe it or not, their EVF is one of the better ones I've seen.  Compared to the Sony F828 (which is usually considered pretty decent on its own) the D2 seems far superior.

And so far picture quality looks great, but I've not had much chance yet to use it. Hopefully this weekend will present some free time.

But those are my opinions, worth exactly what you paid for them.  :-)

     Bruce
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Graham Welland

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2004, 05:25:09 pm »

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How does the Leica D1 compare?
They are presumably going cheaper these days.

The Leica D1 is a big step down from the D2 in terms of raw image quality. Whilst the mega pixel counts are not much different (4 vs 5mp), the colour noise with the D1 is quite significant at all speeds. Also it lacks the fast high quality lens that comes with the D2 - it's good but not comparable. There's also no raw mode ... the raw speed of the D2 seems to bother people a lot or not at all. (I fall mostly in the latter camp).

I've enjoyed using my D1 for a couple of years now but it does have some frustrating traits such as the significant noise and colour artifacts in the captured images. When images are print, these are less visible than you expect but it does limit your ability to print significant sized images. You'll either like the grainy effects and accurate colour - or you'll hate it. The D1, like the D2, does a great job getting colour right in the jpg, particularly if you like a slightly more saturated image.

Ergonomics are pretty good, although the D1 is more of a box than the D2. You can get the Panasonic lens accessories for it if you want telephoto or wide angle adaptors but the camera loses all of it's street camera charm if you use these - they're huge & heavy.

I've had my D2 for over a month now and I've found it to be far, far superior to the D1 in image quality. The 28-90 manual zoom with manual focusing and typical camera control layout is much, much better than the D1. If you are shooting jpg, both the D1 and D2 are very fast with minimal lag, although with the D1 you had to be careful that AF locked before shooting. MF and zoom are electronic on the D1 and the focus dial lacks any feel plus you have to focus on the rear LCD.

If you can't afford or justify the D2 and are interested in cameras at the D1 price point I'd actually consider one of the other recent crop of 5mp cameras from Minolta/Olympus/Canon/Nikon etc as I think you'd get a better value/image quality vs. D1. The Panasonic LC5 is the same camera as the D1 but arguably with better ergonomics .... and a lot cheaper too.

If you want some biased opinion on the virtues of the D1/D2 etc, check out the Leica customer digital forum over at Leica.com. Most consumer sites slam the D1, the Leica site is the polar opposite in terms of love/experience of these cameras from Leica people.

Bottom line is that as much as I liked my D1, I wouldn't buy one if it were to be my only camera at it's price point again. There are better cameras at the same price available these days.

As regards the D2, it's expensive but I'm totally happy with mine, extremely happy in fact. It serves it's purpose as a travel/street camera with the image quality and ergonomics that work for me. It's not the smallest camera but when I want a 'real' camera on my travels my D2 is the choice (I have a Sony T-1 for carry everywhere). Price-wise, yes it's expensive. A DSLR outfit for the same money would be more flexible if this is going to be your only camera. I guess the point is that if you want a great digital rangefinder then the D2 is the pick of the crop. If you want a general camera with maximum flexibility then maybe it isn't the best choice. :cool:
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Graham

Chris

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2004, 04:54:38 pm »

I have the Panasonic LC1, which is functionally identical to the D2. Yes the EVF sucks! But i can live with it because I get a live histogram, and  at this point this camera has no competition. I found Ben Lifsons review somewhat narrow minded and a tad pretentious. The Leica M6 and this one are two completely different beasts, heck one is analogue and the other digital. If one already thinks that an M6 is the pinnacle of camera design, why bother reviewing other cameras ?

--Chris.
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chrisso

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2004, 06:51:56 am »

Good points, although I did agree with Ben's comment that when viewing subjects via the EVF one feels un-inspired.
The RAW image examples on this sites' pt 2 review DO look good however.
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chrisso

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2004, 11:35:41 am »

The more I look at the Epson RD1 info, the more I like it!
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Sean Reid

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More Thoughts on the Digilux 2?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2004, 06:25:47 pm »

That should have read "You're dead on the money with those comments"

Sean
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