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ddk

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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2009, 12:48:19 am »

You know what gets me most about Martin's pm to you besides being totally inappropriate & unprofessional, is that you can send them a hundred emails asking them about a product or an order that is months or even a year late and you won't get a single response from them but now, suddenly, they appeared out of nowhere to attack you. AS has great products but their customer service is the worst that I've seen from any specialist company, ever!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 07:15:51 am by ddk »
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David WM

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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2009, 01:55:20 am »

Quote from: rethmeier
Still for a $1000 USD I expect a lot.


Yes, it should be cheaper,  I presume they don't have the research and design costs built into their product, & probably inferior materials. If all we do is buy the cheap rip-off products, who is going to be bothered designing good new toys ?  
I suppose the same applies to photographers... why pay for an expensive one when there area lot of ones around with less R&D input ?? You may find a good one, but I'd test that first!
David
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rethmeier

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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2009, 10:00:23 pm »

Multiflex has arrived.
Bummer,no leather pouch!

I have to get one from AS.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 03:56:57 am by rethmeier »
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DesW

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« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2009, 10:24:37 pm »

Quote from: rethmeier
Thanks guys for standing up for me!
When the Multiflex arrives,I'll inform you all how good or bad it is.
Still for a $1000 USD I expect a lot.

The people a Photoclam,would have outlaid $ for the Multiflex.
It still has to be made and machined like the AS one.


Best,

Willem.

Hi there Willem,

No no do not feel bad you are quite within your rights to advise of products you feel fit the needs--

Just to say I have two Arca Ballheads--both faulty and no response from Arca  direct nor any dealer regards fixing/help /etc

They do indeed have the worst support /backup I have ever come across of any Mfg.

Keep us informed of  how the "Clone" performs

I agree $2400 USD is outrageous.

Good Shooting,

Des


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rethmeier

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« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2009, 10:56:55 pm »

Thanks Des!

From what I can see,the Multiflex build quality is excellent,however I can't compare it with the AS Cube.

If the Cube is as good,than I'm happy,even-tough I sort of feel bad having purchased a copy.

AS blames the current $2400 USD of the Cube on the exchange rate.


Best,

Willem.






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focusgroup

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« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2009, 11:08:22 pm »

As a patent holder and businessman, I strongly support IP rights. There is an enormous amount of money, talent and energy that goes into developing a new physical or virtual product.

I personally own the arca swiss cube that I bought used from columbus camera.  It is (like most swiss manufactured products) second to none in quality and durability.  It is an essential component that I will no longer have to worry about- this piece of kit will last far longer than me.  

I paid approx $ 1,200 used and must say I consider it a bargain for the quality of the design and manufactur.  I shoot using AS products for 4x5 and 8x10 and am very pleased with the high level of craftsmanship and design  skill. Like most things, you get what you pay for.

I don't support buying illegal knockoffs but this is a personal choice.
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Leonardo Barreto

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« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2009, 11:31:50 pm »

This seams like a simpler idea ...

http://thelevelhead.com/

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rethmeier

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« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2009, 11:33:16 pm »

@ Focusgroup,

the Cube at $1200 USD is excellent value.

The Multiflex at $985 even better.


I certainly would have purchased the Cube at $1200,not at $2400.

Even-tough the Multiflex is a copy,it's a bloody good one!

Best,
Willem.
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schaubild

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« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2009, 02:56:32 am »

Quote from: focusgroup
....

I personally own the arca swiss cube that I bought used from columbus camera.  It is (like most swiss manufactured products) second to none in quality and durability.  It is an essential component that I will no longer have to worry about- this piece of kit will last far longer than me.  

.....


Arca-Swiss is a French company, they moved there 10 years ago.
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rethmeier

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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2009, 03:55:43 am »

Because of Tax reasons?

Sorry I was being cheeky,

most be old age.

Best,

Willem.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 03:56:06 am by rethmeier »
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eronald

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« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2009, 05:35:33 am »

Quote from: focusgroup
As a patent holder and businessman, I strongly support IP rights. There is an enormous amount of money, talent and energy that goes into developing a new physical or virtual product.

I personally own the arca swiss cube that I bought used from columbus camera.  It is (like most swiss manufactured products) second to none in quality and durability.  It is an essential component that I will no longer have to worry about- this piece of kit will last far longer than me.  

I paid approx $ 1,200 used and must say I consider it a bargain for the quality of the design and manufactur.  I shoot using AS products for 4x5 and 8x10 and am very pleased with the high level of craftsmanship and design  skill. Like most things, you get what you pay for.

I don't support buying illegal knockoffs but this is a personal choice.

French company "Arca Swiss" make a nice product. I'd say this controversy is going to help them. Being known as the best maker of a type of product is better than not having that type of product known at all. And just think of all the money the lawyers will get if "illegal knockoff" is a correct description of the Korean product rather than just a derogatory and diffamatory statement.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 05:51:43 am by eronald »
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eronald

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« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2009, 05:47:29 am »

Quote from: rethmeier
Because of Tax reasons?

Sorry I was being cheeky,

most be old age.

Best,

Willem.

I see you have an interesting sense of humor. Must be old age, or personal experience speaking.

Edmund
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rethmeier

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« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2009, 07:44:00 am »

Edmund,
it's well known in the world that Switzerland has a much better tax climate compared to France.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you that.

Anyway,I'm happy with my Multiflex,I certainly can't fault it,apart from being copied extremely well.

Best,

Willem.

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jing q

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« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2009, 07:56:48 am »

Quote from: David WM
Yes, it should be cheaper,  I presume they don't have the research and design costs built into their product, & probably inferior materials. If all we do is buy the cheap rip-off products, who is going to be bothered designing good new toys ?  
I suppose the same applies to photographers... why pay for an expensive one when there area lot of ones around with less R&D input ?? You may find a good one, but I'd test that first!
David


I really wouldn't assume that the materials are "inferior". Considering that when I get stuff engineered I actually can choose what material I to make it out of, it is biased to assume that a knockoff company would use cheaper materials. In fact perhaps they would consider better quality materials due to the fact that their manufacturing costs are lower. That could be a possibility.

Actually to take it to the context of photography, the fact that people could easily copy my pictures forced me to find a unique point in my craft to sell.
This is the same for a multitude of fields. information is so freely available now. People can hire an inferior one who's good at copying, but you don't see Art & Commerce's photographers crying about that.

It's a good idea to figure out a way to continually have something that makes you better value than someone else to convince a consumer.
You can do this by overhyped marketing like many high-end audio brands, peer pressure word of mouth like MFDB manufacturers on online forums like these, by paying magazines to put up ads,

or more positively you could create a great user experience and quality at a reasonable price that leads people to recommend you to others.
I find Profoto expensive but invested in the system ultimately because I felt the premium was worthwhile considering their continual upgrades to the system, the positive user experiences, the relative ease of getting servicing, etc etc.

two trains of thoughts, I do wish everything was more open but from a business point of view, one has to fight hard to sustain their $$$
it's a small world, if someone in korea's making something cheaper and equally good, as a consumer I will buy the cheaper one

Ethics will differ from person to person however ethics are a whole other can of worms.
This brings to mind the Briese vs Broncolor Para debate.
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greygrad

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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2009, 10:22:05 am »

Avoid all the mayhem of 'is-it-a-copy, isn't-it-a-copy?' and just buy one of these: http://www.optosigma.com/miva/merchant.mv?...ode=Goniometers - and put a panning base on the bottom and/or a RRS panning-clamp on the top (looks like all the dual-axis models have a 0.25" threaded central socket on the top and bottom).
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shelby_lewis

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« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2009, 12:00:10 pm »

Quote from: greygrad
Avoid all the mayhem of 'is-it-a-copy, isn't-it-a-copy?' and just buy one of these: http://www.optosigma.com/miva/merchant.mv?...ode=Goniometers - and put a panning base on the bottom and/or a RRS panning-clamp on the top (looks like all the dual-axis models have a 0.25" threaded central socket on the top and bottom).

what a great idea... and after a bit of searching, I've found several more sources... obviously designed for high-accuracy:

one here
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focusgroup

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« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2009, 01:36:19 pm »

Quote from: schaubild
Arca-Swiss is a French company, they moved there 10 years ago.
Umm

I think everyone knows they moved.  The small company still employs the same 1/2 french 1/2 swiss workers.  Of course the french manufacture many fine products. Aatons are wonderful lits to work with.  I'd like to get a used A minima one of these days.
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vgogolak

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« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2009, 03:19:17 pm »

Photographers strenuously protect their intellectual property, their copy rights to an image. It would seem more consistent to respect the patents, the IP of our suppliers as well.
Yes the issue is between AS and infringers, but consumers have an obligation to respect IP. Whether Gucci, AS or the 20 dollar bill, a counterfeit is wrong.

Victor
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geesbert

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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2009, 04:48:11 pm »

I am amazed at the speed in which Willem got kicked by Arca about his post, the same company who is not able to communicate with us in a modern way by a website.  for years I am interested in their Products, namely their Monolith and the Cube, at both the 96 and the 98 Photokina i asked them to get in contact with me, but they never did.

I bought a Linhof 679 and a Manfrotto geared head. The Money I spent on this would have been enough to get a website done. I spend my money with companies i can talk to, especially if it is very spezialized stuff to fulfill my special needs.
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Kumar

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« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2009, 06:45:40 pm »

Quote from: geesbert
for years I am interested in their Products, namely their Monolith and the Cube, at both the 96 and the 98 Photokina i asked them to get in contact with me, but they never did.

Is the Cube that old? I was under the impression that it was introduced in 2004 or 2005.

Cheers,
Kumar
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