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Author Topic: Cost of medium format in general  (Read 11661 times)

BJL

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Cost of medium format in general
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2009, 02:10:04 pm »

Quote from: Enda Cavanagh
I actually mean a lower res H3d option for example which can use the H Lenses as opposed to a camera than can take all the older lenses. So you are not having to deal with the whole cropping issue.
To avoid "the whole cropping issue" with H lenses, the sensor needs to be fairly close to 645 format; maybe 49x37mm like the old 22MP will do, but certainly not 44x33mm as in the H3DII-31. And as I keep saying, MF sensor cost is mostly dictated by sensor size, so such a back will not have a significant production cost advantage over one using a newer, higher resolution sensor of the same size. However such a back will have a lower market value. Similar production cost but distinctly lower market value is not a viable business proposition.
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cjmonty

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Cost of medium format in general
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2009, 02:13:31 pm »

As a landscape guy, I stick by my previous post (er... rant) about who should use DBs and who shouldnt bother:

I recently spent a lot (although a lot less than I could have) after bargaining down a dealer on a refurb P45. Altogether with a Phase Camera Kit it was less than twice what a Nikon D3X or Canon 1DsMkIII costs (which I sold for 1/2 what I bought it for one year after purchase). In the three years since I moved from LF to digital, I have lost a lot of $ on depreciation and finding out I personally can't use the Canon system worth a damn. Here are a few thoughts I have from the experience:

Medium Formal is probably worth it if you:

1-Are rich or make money hand over fist- buy new and enjoy!
2-If not rich or super lucrative, buy used or refurb, and don't be shy about the haggle. These dealers would rather sell an old back then wait for the next whale to walk through the door.
4-Want flexibility of use: like say by using a viewcamera, or a "plate" camera, or a homemade thing you machined in your garage.
5-Want your CAMERA to have shelf life beyond your sensor, and not just your lenses. I am actually pretty happy with the Phamiya and Mamiya glass, and imagine upgrading the back before the camera.
6-Like to take your time (or can afford to take your time) on jobs or making pictures in general. You can take Canon with a wide autofocus on the most demanding Architecture job, shoot a bazillion frames from all angles, and make passable work after having your assistant spend the weekend stitching and HDRing countless files. Or you can take a MFDB and a shifting camera, take twice the time and a tenth of the exposures, and have everything almost finished in camera, and totally finished in Capture One by the end of the day. Also you are more likely to get that beautifully simple easy-to-overlook shot.
7- If you Print big. Period. Ive spent a lot of time trying to make a triple stitch from a 21MP 35mm camera look like a clean LF exposure, and it just aint the same thing. It is different and easier and maybe better. But not the same thing. My outdated (and very ISO limited) P45 39Mp sensor just draws an image with a clarity that I havent seen with a Canon or Nikon.
8- Can't Stand the 2:3 ratio and wonder who the hell ever came up with it. Very simply, I don't make prints in a 2:3 ratio, therefore with the Canon I either had to crop or stitch. This is a particular and nitpicky bugaboo, but hey, we've all got problems.

Do not go MFDB if:

1-You want lowlight capability, at least until the P65+ comes down to a reasonable price point. But by then Canons and Sonys and Nikons will be able to shoot in pitch black and see through walls, so you still dont want to mess with the finicky DBs.
2-Size Doesnt Matter. Of the print, I mean.
3-You want speed, and the ability to get that impossible-to-catch shot. I pity the sports photographer that ever brings a Phase kit to shoot a tennis match. Or to his kids soccer game.
4-You are cheap. I'm actually pretty cheap. But I needed what the DB could give me, and didnt need the good stuff from Canon. However, the Canons of this world will ALWAYS have some hi-end product that will give ya a little more for your buck then Hassy Leaf or Phase are willing to give, pound for pound. Its simple economics and the higher competition & volume in the larger 35mm DSLR world.

These are just my opinions after giving Mr. B and Mr. H way too much of my money. Hope it helps.
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Chris Sandstrom

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Cost of medium format in general
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2009, 04:34:06 am »

Hi,
I think that the medium format segment has become even smaller with the rise of digital imaging. DSLRs are good enough, lighter and cheaper. Moreover, when many photographers shifted to digital, firms like Hasselblad could not offer a complete system on their own having to rely on digital back manufacturers. Once people chose Canon or Nikon instead of Hasselblad, they often stay with those systems. I think this is one important reason why Hasselblad and Mamiya lost so much of the wedding and portrait segments in the early 2000s.

Having studied Hasselblad in detail over the last years, I have put together a slideshow which explains what happened to the firm in the shift to digital imaging:

http://www.slideshare.net/Christiansandstr...tive-innovation

Best,

Chris
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gavin_stok

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Cost of medium format in general
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2009, 05:59:52 am »

Quote from: Chris Sandstrom
Having studied Hasselblad in detail over the last years, I have put together a slideshow which explains what happened to the firm in the shift to digital imaging:

http://www.slideshare.net/Christiansandstr...tive-innovation

Thanks for the interesting background Chris. Another good example of how companies who have no interest in the business they buy (other than money) ultimately wreck it.
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