Topic: If you had £5000 (Read 11800 times)

Bonobo · « **on:** March 30, 2009, 08:08:44 pm »

I'm a regular reader of these forums and would really appreciate some advice from you guys on what is going to be a major financial investment.

I have been an assistant for well over 10 years and currently trying to break my way in to the professional world.

I currently shoot portraits for a number of editorial/design/publishing clients all of whom demand digital photography. And at the moment do not own a digital system of my own. At the moment i currently hire or borrow cameras for jobs.

But i have a dilemma.... I currently own a Hasselblad V system, 503CW with 40mm, 80mm, 150mm, and many accessories. And am looking to upgrade this with adding a digital back.

Or... selling the whole lot, and investing in a 5D Mark 2 or possibly a Nikon D3X. Plus as stated, i have £5000 GBP to invest.

I really feel having the medium format system would give me a real edge, and love working with the format, but with the current technology changes, the current Canon/Nikon systems offer many advantages.

Any thought are appreciated.

Graham Mitchell · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2009, 08:23:41 pm »

Canon and Nikon have many strengths over the MF world in some applications, but when it comes to portraits I'd say MF is the clear winner. You have fast flash sync for shooting people outdoors, fine detail for skin texture and hair, lenses with pleasing bokeh and still sharp wide open, easier manual focus, etc

For £5000 you could add a back like the Sinar eMotion54LV (which is what I have) but there are probably other choices in this price range too. I can post a sample portrait using this back and a 180mm f2.8 PQ Rollei lens at f4 on a Rollei 6008 if you're interested (I happen to be working on one right now).

Dustbak · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:52:50 am »

For the 503CW I would be looking for a refurbished or used CFV back. It is square (yes you do have quite a crop factor due to the 37x37sensor) and also integrates really well with your 500 series. It can also be found for that price and even less.

Downside, it is only 16/17MP but that is more than enough in most cases.

You also don't need things like a sync cord from your lens to the back. For many this is not a big thing but it does to the pleasantness of using the whole system.

Sure you could also get yourself a Nikon or Canon. I am pretty sure they will also do just fine. I am currently assuming you enjoy the 503 and wish to use that. Given that you can make any of these to work and all have great results, you should be looking at what makes you most comfortable using and what gives you most joy.

Other options might be a 36x48 rectangular 22MP back or even one of the 32x43 17/18MP backs. These are in a similar price range. Upside is the 3:4 format which is more useful for magazine work. Downside is you will be rotating the back and do have that little cord.

I would go for the comfortable shooting I think.

Carsten W · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:29:36 am »

Quote from: Dustbak

Other options might be a 36x48 rectangular 22MP back or even one of the 32x43 17/18MP backs. These are in a similar price range. Upside is the 3:4 format which is more useful for magazine work. Downside is you will be rotating the back and do have that little cord.

So, I have seen lots of experienced photographers make comments about the chord, but I don't yet get why it is such a problem to have a little chord running from the back to the sync plug. Does it get in the way, or is it unreliable, or what is the problem with it?

Dustbak · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:40:28 am »

Quote from: carstenw

So, I have seen lots of experienced photographers make comments about the chord, but I don't yet get why it is such a problem to have a little chord running from the back to the sync plug. Does it get in the way, or is it unreliable, or what is the problem with it?

It is not so much as a problem but it does run through your fingers and sometimes gets in the way. It distracts me and this way it annoys me. On the older CF lenses it can loosen sometimes resulting in a misfire (not the case with the newer lenses that lock the cable). Sure you can tape away the little cable so it is not in your way but to me in the end it was there and annoyed me. When I am photographing people I want my gear to be not attracting attention or distracting me.

It is like the pimple in your face. It is there, which in itselfs bothers you even though you could leave it there but you just feel forced to pop it and get rid of it.

Besides that I always forgot the damn freaking cable. Imagine getting somewhere with all your stuff to find you can't make a single frame because of a 5USD cable. In the end I had 3 of them in every bag I had.

Yeah, I can live with it but If I can I would prefer not to have it. Have you worked with it? It is one of those things that eventually will get on your nerves and affect the fun you have in using the system. At least to me it was (personal preferences do vary ofcourse) !

BTW. I now work with the H & X-Act2 (and on occasion I startup the good ole Digiflex II). I did get myself another 503 a while ago but sold it again. I am still not sure whether I want to use one and in which way.

Graham Mitchell · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:55:53 am »

Quote from: carstenw

So, I have seen lots of experienced photographers make comments about the chord, but I don't yet get why it is such a problem to have a little chord running from the back to the sync plug. Does it get in the way, or is it unreliable, or what is the problem with it?

It's a little in the way, and I have had one cable fail as well, plus the cable I have doesn't sit very firmly in the flash sync socket and can fall out at times. It's the most annoying part of my whole setup. Would love to be rid of it!

Bonobo · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2009, 09:56:45 am »

I've borrowed/hired digital backs in the past and can understand peoples gripes about the trigger cable getting in the way, but I never found it to be that frustrating. I've also used backs on RZ67's and you have the same problem. I have an old 80mm (silver type) for the 503cw and the cable often drops out, but on the newer lenses, its a pretty sung fit and take a bit to pull the cable out, been thinking of replacing the old lens anyway.

Flash sync cables have been the bane of photographers lives for eons, why they never redesigned it still baffles me to this day, but its just something that you get used to.

In terms of a back, I was thinking of a referb/demo 22mp Leaf/Phase, or as Graham pointed out, a Sinar eMotion.

The square 16mp backs never appealed to me, mainly because of the crop factor and the fact that most publications are not in a square format as Dustbak pointed out.

It does feel like it would be a real shame to sell a kit which i have spent many years building up, especially considering the quality of the image it can produce, and can be so easily converted to digital.

Guess the next step would be to speak to some dealers and see what i can get for my money.....

mjrichardson · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:01:43 am »

Graham, I'd be interested in seeing what you are working on now, the 180 on the 6008 is of real interest to me, any chance of popping one up? Sorry to the OP!

Mat.

Bonobo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:06:00 am »

No worries mat, i would like to see what it looks like too Graham. Post up a photo when you get a chance.

gwhitf · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:09:59 am »

Quote from: Bonobo

I really feel having the medium format system would give me a real edge, and love working with the format, but with the current technology changes, the current Canon/Nikon systems offer many advantages.

Any thought are appreciated.

It's not about "having an edge". No camera will do that for you. Clients cannot tell the difference. No one hires a guy because of the kind of camera he shoots. So don't buy into that hype and fear. You see guys buy these things, and then after six months, you see them for sale -- they wonder, "why did my pictures not get better?"

My advice is buy the camera that makes you take pictures. Screw the back; all the backs are the same. Buy the CAMERA that you're comfortable with. The one that's an extension of how you see the world, and the camera that makes it easy and effortless to get that vision onto film. "The edge" is how you see the world, and how much you can stop thinking about the camera, and start thinking about what you want to photograph.

One opinion.

Dustbak · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:21:22 am »

Euh... I think that was what most of us were implying as well I understood the 503 is the preferred camera ... if it isn't the advice would become different.

Bonobo · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:35:45 am »

Quote from: gwhitf

It's not about "having an edge". No camera will do that for you. Clients cannot tell the difference. No one hires a guy because of the kind of camera he shoots. So don't buy into that hype and fear. You see guys buy these things, and then after six months, you see them for sale -- they wonder, "why did my pictures not get better?"

My advice is buy the camera that makes you take pictures. Screw the back; all the backs are the same. Buy the CAMERA that you're comfortable with. The one that's an extension of how you see the world, and the camera that makes it easy and effortless to get that vision onto film. "The edge" is how you see the world, and how much you can stop thinking about the camera, and start thinking about what you want to photograph.

One opinion.

I couldn't agree with you more, but if that were the case i would be shooting all my job all on my G9. But that would be amateurish, and im pretty sure that my clients would be able to tell the difference.

Don't get me wrong, i know that at the end of the day it is just a tool, but it happens to be a very expensive tool! And for that reason im seeking advice.

I love using the Blad, and have done for many years, and it seem that the logical step is to buy a digital back. And for that reason, im pretty sure it will be permanently glued to my hand.

I have a feeling the G9 may feel neglected... :wink:

gwhitf · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2009, 11:04:45 am »

Quote from: Bonobo

I love using the Blad, and have done for many years,

There's your answer, right there. Don't overlook that statement. Be careful forcing a square peg into a round hole, out of fear or hype or whatever. It's about throwing that thing over your shoulder, and having it be an EASY NATURAL extension of how you see.

James R Russell · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2009, 11:35:53 am »

Quote from: gwhitf

There's your answer, right there. Don't overlook that statement. Be careful forcing a square peg into a round hole, out of fear or hype or whatever. It's about throwing that thing over your shoulder, and having it be an EASY NATURAL extension of how you see.

I agree.

You'll move your career a lot further by shooting more, experimenting, learning post production and investing in what is in front of the lens vs. what brand of camera is between the lens and you.

Be careful on public forums, especially this medium format section, because this is more about brand/format worship and camera sales than it is about actual photography.

If your hasselblad works, you like it, it suits your style then buy the least expensive used digital back you can find. 18mpx to 39mpx your clients won't see the difference and quite honestly if you learn post production well, you won't either, at least once the ink hits the paper, or you knock them down to 900px wide jpegs for web view (where 90% of our presentations come from).

The first downside to this is you'll have more moire (see the d3x-aptus comparison) and if you shoot in low light you'll spend more time either lighting and/or shooting from a tripod.

The second downside is once you start with digital you get hooked on the fear factor of bigger is better. It's not, at least to anyone viewing a photograph, but since a 30" monitor is how we now proof our images, it's hard not to get hooked.

Personally I think you'd be better off shooting film for yourself, some kind of used dslr for your clients which allows you more time behind the camera and less time fixating on the computer.

You only have so much time, so use it wisely.

Graham Mitchell · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2009, 11:43:02 am »

Quote from: mjrichardson

Graham, I'd be interested in seeing what you are working on now, the 180 on the 6008 is of real interest to me, any chance of popping one up? Sorry to the OP!

Mat.

Here's one: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?tdhiq2n3uu2

TimG · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2009, 11:45:28 am »

Forget gear. Put it all towards marketing. Get your name out there (if it's not already), attract the clients, get the jobs, and then worry about gear.

Bonobo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:52:20 pm »

Quote from: James R Russell

I agree.

You'll move your career a lot further by shooting more, experimenting, learning post production and investing in what is in front of the lens vs. what brand of camera is between the lens and you.

Be careful on public forums, especially this medium format section, because this is more about brand/format worship and camera sales than it is about actual photography.

If your hasselblad works, you like it, it suits your style then buy the least expensive used digital back you can find. 18mpx to 39mpx your clients won't see the difference and quite honestly if you learn post production well, you won't either, at least once the ink hits the paper, or you knock them down to 900px wide jpegs for web view (where 90% of our presentations come from).

The first downside to this is you'll have more moire (see the d3x-aptus comparison) and if you shoot in low light you'll spend more time either lighting and/or shooting from a tripod.

The second downside is once you start with digital you get hooked on the fear factor of bigger is better. It's not, at least to anyone viewing a photograph, but since a 30" monitor is how we now proof our images, it's hard not to get hooked.

Personally I think you'd be better off shooting film for yourself, some kind of used dslr for your clients which allows you more time behind the camera and less time fixating on the computer.

You only have so much time, so use it wisely.

Hi James, I always really appreciate the advice you give on these forums, and agree with many of your statements above. The main reason for this investment is to increase the amount that i shoot, its a simple fact that having digital equipment enables one to shoot freely. Film/processing costs have gone up considerably, and i would much prefer to be investing the money that i would use on that, into buying some form of digital equipment. At the end of the day a camera is just a tool, but i will have to admit, i always prefer using the best possible tool.

My current portfolio has images from many different systems, and i really have no preference in what i use as long as it gets the job done, i just happens that early on i chose the Hasselbald V as my preferred choice. I would really have no problem in selling the system, but seems rather foolish considering that its so easy to turn digital.

I agree that there tends to be certain amounts of bias on these forums in terms of brand loyalty, and for me that doesn't really matter, i was just looking for some informed opinions in term's of my dilemma.

Your definitely right about one thing, we do only have so much time, better go and make some calls!

Quote from: TimG

Forget gear. Put it all towards marketing. Get your name out there (if it's not already), attract the clients, get the jobs, and then worry about gear.

Getting the clients, getting the jobs..... thats why im asking about the gear...

mjrichardson · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:05:47 pm »

Cheers Graham, very nice quality to the shot.

Thanks for posting it.

Mat.

Plekto · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:43:47 pm »

http://www.dboyd.com/Photos_08/Hasselbladv...eercan/test.htm

This isn't the best 25MP camera you can buy, either. But it does show how a lot of past-gen DBs are pretty well thrashed by the new crop of DSLRs. The quality is close to each other, but the price difference isn't. I'd personally wait until next fall when the new 25-30MP DSLRs come out and get one then. A 1DS MkIV or whatever they call it, for instance, will be a much cheaper option than a 25-30MP DB and all the kludgy and klunky gear.

Shoot, even the hideously overpriced Nikon is a steal compared to MF gear.

Carsten W · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2009, 04:28:43 pm »

Quote from: Plekto

Shoot, even the hideously overpriced Nikon is a steal compared to MF gear.

The hideously overpriced Nikon (D3x) is about the same price as the equally hideously overpriced Canon (1Ds3), and in some places is even cheaper. I just felt compelled to point that out. The A900 may not be the best 25MP camera, but it is cheaper than both the above, by far, and doesn't have the reliability problems of the 5D2.

Author Topic: If you had £5000 (Read 11800 times)

mjrichardson

mjrichardson