Highest ISO on P25 Phase One Back ??

[juiceboy99]

I have been experimenting to get a Usable 200 or 400 ISO
on my P25 Phase One Back.....

Are there any tips to get a Usable 200 or 400 ISO on my P25 ??

btw,  i am using a 503 CW Hasselblad.

Thanks !

[buzzski]

I'd like to add on to this post as well if I may... I've recently started using longer lenses on my blad and need to up the asa. I'd ideally like to use 400 so I can glean a bit more depth and higher shutter speed. I'm using an Aptus 17 so a similar chip size to your Phase back. Any tips from anyone would be much appreciated. I'm processing in aperture but could be persuaded to use Leaf Capture or bcamera raw if there was a benefit. Thanks, and sorry for jumping on your post! Craig

[amsp]

The "secret" is really only to expose correctly and make sure you use CaptureOne for developing your RAWs. Play around with the noise reduction settings till you get the best results. Here's an informal test I did a while back: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=25473

[jmvdigital]

Like Amsp said, a good exposure is key, the more light the better as long as you don't blow anything. There is really no "trick" to shooting high ISO. It's no different than what you would do at a lower ISO. The only difference is that the noise is more or less conspicuous depending on the subject, overall scene brightness, and scene detail. Large areas of shadow (e.g., a low-key image with limited detail) will show the noise at its worst. Though it can be the easiest to clean up. A bright image full of detail (e.g., a daytime street scene) will make the noise less conspicuous.

The raw converter you use makes a huge difference as well. I was using Lightroom to process my P30+ images when I first got it. Then I stumbled upon the revelation that is Capture One Pro, and never looked back. The noise reduction, and color reproduction, for the Phase files is significantly better than LR. Buzzski, that may or may not be the case with your Leaf. I'm not sure what software works best with those files. Good luck.

[Doug Peterson]

1) make sure you have the latest firmware for the back
2) use capture one 4.x pro

I'm out of the office and don't remember the latest non plus firmware number off the top of my head. You can determine yours by Menu > configuration > about (main firmware).

[Doug Peterson]

1) make sure you have the latest firmware for the back
2) use capture one 4.x pro

I'm out of the office and don't remember the latest non plus firmware number off the top of my head. You can determine yours by Menu > configuration > about (main firmware).

3.3.4

[juiceboy99]

i"ve heard about some people under exposing, and then getting better shutter speeds,
and then bumping it up in C1 PRO......

I wonder if this is better ?

[Snook]

While we are on the subject. Is it any different for the P30 non +???
What would be a reasonable ISO for prints no bigger than 11x14?
I have always wonder this and cannot risk it during a job.. also cannot print to the catalogue print paper to try as it would be a pain to go and ask.
What is reasonable considering the exposure is to the right on a P40.. IS 400 usable in small print catalogue with some reduction to noise?
Thanks
Snook

[DavidP]

I had a P25 before, I was using the earlier version of Capture One, 200 was not too bad as long as it was well exposed, 400 not so great, although I liked to use it and convert to Black and White and it had this nice film Tri X kind of feel to it.
It also had this special 800 setting that used Pixel Binning and gave you a 6 megapixel image, it did not work well at all.

[amsp]

I had a P25 before, I was using the earlier version of Capture One, 200 was not too bad as long as it was well exposed, 400 not so great, although I liked to use it and convert to Black and White and it had this nice film Tri X kind of feel to it.
It also had this special 800 setting that used Pixel Binning and gave you a 6 megapixel image, it did not work well at all.

No offense but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, I have a P25 and iso 400 & 800 are more than usable if you take care at the moment of exposure and know how to handle the files in CaptureOne. Also, iso 800 opens as 16.2 megapixel in ACR, not 6.

[Carsten W]

No offense but you obviously have no idea what you're talking about

No offense??? I think you need to open a dictionary once in a while! Clearly we are using different meanings of the word 'offense'.

[michaelnotar]

i would say 200 is the max. 400 is ok but gives odd grain structure/detail after the high noise reduction needed in C1.

i did some tests a long time ago with my P25, if you over expose at an iso by a stop and pull it in C1, the noise is insanely less. under exposure will only bring out the noise. also it needs to be a flat subject with no highlights or little. i forgot what version of C1 i used, im not sure if that made a difference.

iso 50- perfect, you really have to look really hard to see any evidence of noise and its almost no existant.

100- perfect minus, light color noise thats easily removed with damaging the image.

200- good plus, medium color noise that is easily removed, that slightly degrades the image

400- the last ok iso, if you really need to use it, but only as emergency. strong color noise and medium light brightness noise. i leave the brightness noise and only remove the color noise which takes full power application of noise. after NR is applied, a weird cross hatch look takes over the pixel structure. still makes a really nice 8x10 inch print without seeing this effect.

800- not tested much, a joke. i forget its there (as well as 400 usually).

all comments are from my experience using my back. i try, but an not the end all of MF knowledge.

[tom_l]

i would say 200 is the max. 400 is ok but gives odd grain structure/detail after the high noise reduction needed in C1.

i did some tests a long time ago with my P25, if you over expose at an iso by a stop and pull it in C1, the noise is insanely less. under exposure will only bring out the noise. also it needs to be a flat subject with no highlights or little. i forgot what version of C1 i used, im not sure if that made a difference.

iso 50- perfect, you really have to look really hard to see any evidence of noise and its almost no existant.

100- perfect minus, light color noise thats easily removed with damaging the image.

200- good plus, medium color noise that is easily removed, that slightly degrades the image

400- the last ok iso, if you really need to use it, but only as emergency. strong color noise and medium light brightness noise. i leave the brightness noise and only remove the color noise which takes full power application of noise. after NR is applied, a weird cross hatch look takes over the pixel structure. still makes a really nice 8x10 inch print without seeing this effect.

800- not tested much, a joke. i forget its there (as well as 400 usually).

all comments are from my experience using my back. i try, but an not the end all of MF knowledge.

Exactly: 50 and 100 are great, 200 is ok, 400 Iso is for emergency but do not underexpose, and 800 Iso, well...it's like using >=1600 ISO on my old D2x, not really a good idea.

Tom-

[amsp]

I don't know if you guys have outdated experiences because of advances in firmware and software or if you just don't know how to handle the files, but I've shot high-fashion editorials at 800 iso and they looked perfect after some work in post, so saying that it's unusable is just ridiculous.

[jmvdigital]

i"ve heard about some people under exposing, and then getting better shutter speeds,
and then bumping it up in C1 PRO......

I wonder if this is better ?

This is a recipe for disaster. Only under the most dire circumstances should you ever attempt to underexpose to achieve a higher shutter speed. This can be done if there's no other way you'll "get the shot" but it's murder on the noise and detail end (and you might lose shadow detail), especially when you're already at a high ISO. Of course, technically speaking, shooting at 800 ISO produces very similar noise to shooting a stop under at ISO 400 and bumping it up in post. This can depend sometimes on how a camera/back handles ISO stepping. Some have discreet circuits or modes for upping ISO, others just do pixel value doubling.

As with all ISOs, it's generally best to expose dead on or use a little "expose to the right" (i.e., slight over exposure) when possible. Exposing to the right does the exact opposite of what you propose. You overexpose a bit (hopefully without clipping highlights) and bring the exposure down in post, which compresses some of the noise in the midtones and shadows down a bit.

It should also be noted that I believe higher ISOs progressively lower dynamic range. I don't know exact amounts, but you might lose 1-stop of dynamic range shooting at 800 versus 100. I don't know the technicalities of why, but it's probably because the noise floor rises so much so that what was discreet levels of data just becomes lost.

I don't know if you guys have outdated experiences because of advances in firmware and software or if you just don't know how to handle the files, but I've shot high-fashion editorials at 800 iso and they looked perfect after some work in post, so saying that it's unusable is just ridiculous.

I think this is very dependent on specific back/camera, the person's processing skill and techniques, and personal preference. I find my shots from my P30+ to be totally usable at 1600 ISO. I mostly shoot fine art type stuff, so for me, noise isn't all that objectionable on a lot of stuff. I kill the color noise, and the luminance becomes "grain" and adds to the mood and real feel of the shot. But, going from the P25 non-plus to the P30+ is probably a 2+ stop difference in high ISO handling.


Snook, if you'd like a sample image or two from my P30+ at high ISO, I can provide them and you can print and judge for yourself. Let me know.

[Snook]

This is a recipe for disaster. Only under the most dire circumstances should you ever attempt to underexpose to achieve a higher shutter speed. This can be done if there's no other way you'll "get the shot" but it's murder on the noise and detail end (and you might lose shadow detail), especially when you're already at a high ISO. Of course, technically speaking, shooting at 800 ISO produces very similar noise to shooting a stop under at ISO 400 and bumping it up in post. This can depend sometimes on how a camera/back handles ISO stepping. Some have discreet circuits or modes for upping ISO, others just do pixel value doubling.

As with all ISOs, it's generally best to expose dead on or use a little "expose to the right" (i.e., slight over exposure) when possible. Exposing to the right does the exact opposite of what you propose. You overexpose a bit (hopefully without clipping highlights) and bring the exposure down in post, which compresses some of the noise in the midtones and shadows down a bit.

It should also be noted that I believe higher ISOs progressively lower dynamic range. I don't know exact amounts, but you might lose 1-stop of dynamic range shooting at 800 versus 100. I don't know the technicalities of why, but it's probably because the noise floor rises so much so that what was discreet levels of data just becomes lost.



I think this is very dependent on specific back/camera, the person's processing skill and techniques, and personal preference. I find my shots from my P30+ to be totally usable at 1600 ISO. I mostly shoot fine art type stuff, so for me, noise isn't all that objectionable on a lot of stuff. I kill the color noise, and the luminance becomes "grain" and adds to the mood and real feel of the shot. But, going from the P25 non-plus to the P30+ is probably a 2+ stop difference in high ISO handling.

Thank you very much for the offer, But I have the P30 not Plus+...:+}
I was just wondering in emergency what I could realistic expect. I would only use it for catalogue rint where noise seems to be less noticable since it is printed pretty low and usually pretty small.
I used to be a parnoid freak about noise but been playing aroud lately with nice results on my Canon 1DsMII and was wondering how the P30 does.
Will have to try it when I get a chance.
Thanks again
Snook

Snook, if you'd like a sample image or two from my P30+ at high ISO, I can provide them and you can print and judge for yourself. Let me know.