New Mac - Graphics Card Question

[Sfleming]

So I'm getting a new Mac desktop. 8 core.  Anybody have an opinion about the graphics cards?  I was thinking of just going the one step up option.  That is two NVIDIA GeForce GT 120s as opposed to the single card as standard issue.  The computer will be mostly a Photoshop machine and I only handle one image at a time.  Usually around 250MB but I have some that need to be downrezed that are  at present as large as 650MB.  I will have two 1Ter HDs.  The extra drive for PS swap files.

So how much does a graphics card have to do in PS for a one image at a time workflow?  Am I on the right track?

Thanks.
 

[Jack Flesher]

So I'm getting a new Mac desktop. 8 core.  Anybody have an opinion about the graphics cards?  I was thinking of just going the one step up option.  That is two NVIDIA GeForce GT 120s as opposed to the single card as standard issue.  The computer will be mostly a Photoshop machine and I only handle one image at a time.  Usually around 250MB but I have some that need to be downrezed that are  at present as large as 650MB.  I will have two 1Ter HDs.  The extra drive for PS swap files.

So how much does a graphics card have to do in PS for a one image at a time workflow?  Am I on the right track?

Thanks.
 

Well...

I'm not sure that multiple cards is better than a single card with more VRAM and even if the system can lean on more than one GPU to share processing, and then I am not sure how much you really need the extra processing power provided by the GPU(s) and their half a gig of VRAM when you already have 8 real cores (and 16 virtual cores) and lots of really fast DDR3 RAM in the box.

Personally, for 2-D imaging work I would buy the basic card that comes with the machine and only if you find you need more/better graphics then add the "better" upgrade card.

Cheers,  

[Bob Peterson]

So I'm getting a new Mac desktop. 8 core.  Anybody have an opinion about the graphics cards?  I was thinking of just going the one step up option.  That is two NVIDIA GeForce GT 120s as opposed to the single card as standard issue.  The computer will be mostly a Photoshop machine and I only handle one image at a time.  Usually around 250MB but I have some that need to be downrezed that are  at present as large as 650MB.  I will have two 1Ter HDs.  The extra drive for PS swap files.

So how much does a graphics card have to do in PS for a one image at a time workflow?  Am I on the right track?

Thanks.
 

Lloyd L Chambers writes one of the best Mac performance guides. He suggests a single card with at least 512MB of video memory and support for dual monitors. He strongly believes available memory influences Photoshop performance more than anything else.

Bob

[Sfleming]

Thanks guys.  It's only a hundred bucks to add the second card.  Apple has changed their pricing structure this time around and are not trying to hammer you for a bit extra RAM.  Just prior to this iteration my retailer was talking about third party RAM for much much less money.  Now I can get the machine from Apple with 12 gig for not all that much.  I'm figuring thats enough with two hard drives for the swap file.  Problem with third party RAM is it can mess with your Apple Care if you have to send it in.

I seemed to see something somewhere about even a third drive for other PS functions being a plus.  Can anybody help me here?

Thanks aggain.

[frugal]

I'm pretty sure that the additional video card options are there solely for driving additional monitors (each card supports 2 monitors), not for combining video processing (using SLI or Crossfire).

[phila]

I'm pretty sure that the additional video card options are there solely for driving additional monitors (each card supports 2 monitors), not for combining video processing (using SLI or Crossfire).

Indeed. By all means get the 'next step up' graphics card, but there is no reason to have two unless you are driving more than two monitors.

The normal ordering situation is that when you specify an upgrade is that it replaces the standard card.

[Sfleming]

What do I know ... but it might be the case that some contributing here might want to look at the Apple site and go through the 'configure your Mac' process.  I could be  wrong.

[Jack Flesher]

What do I know ... but it might be the case that some contributing here might want to look at the Apple site and go through the 'configure your Mac' process.  I could be  wrong.

I'm confused -- your original question was,

>>"So how much does a graphics card have to do in PS for a one image at a time workflow? Am I on the right track?"<<


One image at a time in PS definitely presumes a SINGLE monitor and a 2D image; no multiple monitors and no video or 3D imaging.  Moreover, your question, while not really clear, implies you are possibly wanting maximize Open GL features in CS4.  Regardless, most of the answers I read are addressing your general question...

Answer me this:  What good is a second video card going to do for a single monitor set up, when the stock video card can drive a pair of 30" displays?

Cheers,

[Sfleming]

I'm confused -- your original question was,

>>"So how much does a graphics card have to do in PS for a one image at a time workflow? Am I on the right track?"<<


One image at a time in PS definitely presumes a SINGLE monitor and a 2D image; no multiple monitors and no video or 3D imaging.  Moreover, your question, while not really clear, implies you are possibly wanting maximize Open GL features in CS4.  Regardless, most of the answers I read are addressing your general question...

Answer me this:  What good is a second video card going to do for a single monitor set up, when the stock video card can drive a pair of 30" displays?

Cheers,

Well I might want to have a second monitor.  It's nice to separate the PS gui from the image.  All I know is what Apple tells me.  That's why I referenced their newest 'build your own mac' or 'configure' pages.  I'm not a computer person and really don't want to be.  I'm just a schlub who can figure out how to turn them on and get most of what I need out of them.  Apple's Graphics card options just keep adding more of the same card until you get up to 4.  Then as their fifth option they list a completely different card.  An "ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB [Add $200.00"

I'm asking what is the benefit of adding up to four of the exact same card?  Then I have no idea what the Radeon 4870 is all about.  Is it better than 4 of the GT 120s?  Is there no relationship between these choices?

I'm sure at this time I don't need an 8 core at all.  I just don't want to have to buy another desktop for at least three years and I'm sure tech will advance to the point quickly that if I don't 'over spec'  I'll get stuck. My present desktop is over 4 years old.

I did not mean to imply that folks weren't being helpful.  Only that I was not getting my question across and maybe some had not seen the new Apple offerings.

[phila]

Apple's Graphics card options just keep adding more of the same card until you get up to 4.  Then as their fifth option they list a completely different card.  An "ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB [Add $200.00"

I'm asking what is the benefit of adding up to four of the exact same card?  Then I have no idea what the Radeon 4870 is all about.  Is it better than 4 of the GT 120s?  Is there no relationship between these choices?

The multiple GT120 card options are there for those few people who want to run a "display wall" of up to 8 monitors. One standard GT120 will drive 2 monitors (one via the new Display Port) so that would be all you need to have an extra monitor for PS palettes etc. There is no performance advantage in having more than one card as PS will only 'access' one graphics card at a time. I haven't kept up with the latest graphics cards pros/cons but I'm sure a look at the manufacturer's site explain the differences. Given the modest increase in cost I'd be choosing the 4870. That's what I did when ordering the 8800 GT card for my Early 2008 MacPro. By the way, if you do choose that card you are replacing the standard card with it, NOT configuring the machine with two cards.

[Jack Flesher]

I'm asking what is the benefit of adding up to four of the exact same card?  Then I have no idea what the Radeon 4870 is all about.  Is it better than 4 of the GT 120s?  Is there no relationship between these choices?

1) THE STOCK NVIDIA CARD DRIVES UP TO *TWO* DUAL-LINK MONITORS!  (And yes, I am shouting that at you ) So,

2) As has been said about eight times above, adding more of the stock card will only allow you to drive MORE THAN TWO MONITORS and nothing else (except taking up PCI-x slots you could otherwise use for other add-ons).

3) The upgrade AMD card has the same amount of VRAM, possibly a better GPU, but you'll only see real benefit for *3-D* applications like gaming and possibly smoother video -- and even that difference is questionable.

4) You *MIGHT* see improved Open GL performance in CS4 with the upgrade card depending on how much better the GPU actually is, but many of us have found Open GL causes more problems in CS4 than it solves, so have turned it off completely.

5) Read these:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gt_120_us.html

http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/index.html

6) A FWIW -- Historically with Apple, adding the "upgrade" card on early releases has delayed shipment of the systems due to shorter supply.



Best,

[Sfleming]

Oh.
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Thanks.
 

[rsvaught]

1) THE STOCK NVIDIA CARD DRIVES UP TO *TWO* DUAL-LINK MONITORS!  (And yes, I am shouting that at you ) So,

2) As has been said about eight times above, adding more of the stock card will only allow you to drive MORE THAN TWO MONITORS and nothing else (except taking up PCI-x slots you could otherwise use for other add-ons).

......

Word of warning from someone who just got a new Mac Pro. Both cards from Apple have two ports, but one of them is a MiniDisplayport that really only works with their 24" LED monitor. There is no way to extend the cable length and no adapters to drive other displays. Some have already had serious issues with cable length, etc. See my thread on the Apple Forum.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?t...42&tstart=0

[Jack Flesher]

and no adapters to drive other displays

Uh, FTR, Apple sells both a mini display to regular DVI adapter, and this one for mini to dual-link DVI: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A



Cheers,

[Vautour]

The Radeon is much faster than the Nvidia 120 GPU. But this will only be felt in 3d applications (as has been mentioned several times) and will speed up the OpenGL based functions in PS CS4 compared to the Nvidia card. But then again you're going to have such fast processors that I wonder if any difference will be felt (compared to leaving OpenGL support disabled in PS CS4). And I've not read that Adobe supports SLI or Crossfire (thus using more than one GPU at a time). Oh, and the radeon will be faster in OpenCL based applications (for what that's worth. That support is going to come with MacOS 10.6. But of course applications have to use this feature and I guess that it will take some time to get widespread adoption).

So if you do not want to use more than 2 monitors go with with the AMD card (the 4870). It's the fastest (faster than the also mentioned 8800GT) card you can get configured with your Mac at the moment.

By the way I've yet to find a review where PS CS4's OpenGL features have been tested with different graphics cards and how much those affect performance and what would be the recommended class of GPUs.

[jerryrock]

By the way I've yet to find a review where PS CS4's OpenGL features have been tested with different graphics cards and how much those affect performance and what would be the recommended class of GPUs.

This is what Adobe has published on the subject:

http://www.adobe.com/go/kb404898

[jjj]

The Radeon is much faster than the Nvidia 120 GPU. But this will only be felt in 3d applications (as has been mentioned several times) and will speed up the OpenGL based functions in PS CS4 compared to the Nvidia card.

Of note. I opened 9 smallish jpegs at a 1000px max length yesterday and was told PS couldn't support open GL on that many images!

[rcdurston]

1) THE STOCK NVIDIA CARD DRIVES UP TO *TWO* DUAL-LINK MONITORS!  (And yes, I am shouting that at you ) So,

5) Read these:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gt_120_us.html

http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/index.html

6) A FWIW -- Historically with Apple, adding the "upgrade" card on early releases has delayed shipment of the systems due to shorter supply.



Best,

Hi Jack
I just got my MacPro after 3 weeks of being on B/O and without realizing only ordered it with the one basic GT120 card (even though I have 2x23"s and Apple's basic cards have always "properly" supported dual monitors). The link you give for the GT120 is for the aftermarket card. This is not the same as the one Nvidia markets to Apple. The aftermarket one allows you to "jumper" two 120's together for added response. The Apple version is totally enclosed and has no facility to "jumper" the two cards together.
I researched this with the business guy at my local Apple store and my repair/upgrade outlet who have done the jumping on other machines using the aftermarket card.
Its a shame the enclosed these, I would like to see if there really is that big of a performance gain by the whole jumpering between them.

As it sits now, I'm running my two 23's with no problems from the pair of GT120's.
Also, the only noise in this office is my RAID, this MacPro is crazy silent.

r