Holly cows..

[BernardLanguillier]

I don't believe in those specs.

Considering that the D3x sensor already equal MF quality in terms of DR, why on earth would Nikon release a MF body with much larger photosites than those of the D3x?

Extrapolating the resolution from the D3x (24x36mm) to this supposed M1 sensor size (54x54mm), you would get a 82 MP sensor.

If the resolution where to be only less than 40MP, they could probably squeeze yet an extra stop of DR out of those and have extremely clean ISO 6400 and totally noiseless ISO 1600...

Cheers,
Bernard

[BJNY]

Given that the vast majority of the buyers will be shooting for a format other than square just due to clients/outout requirements I'm not sure why Nikon would do this for a few hobbyists who like the square format, they ain't going to be the ones buying it and certainly not the ones financing it. I can't see many people wanting to pay for a large proportion of megapixels thrown away everytime the file is actually used for something.

33% is not a few.

I feel that if larger sensors are employed, they will not be square. All market data shows that rectangular sensors are preferred, typically by 2 to 1 margins. However, the 30% who argue for the square sensor are more passionate...

[ziocan]

Wasn't this a rumor that started a couple of years ago by a few internet Nikon maniac that were frustrated of Nikon not even having a FF camera?

On the other hand, it will probably have some pretty questionable boke. As much as I admire Nikon as a company, and Nikon cameras, their lenses mostly leave me cold. The exception would be if you want sharpness front-to-back.

exactly....
unless they reinvented themselves I'm afraid that is what is going to happens if this camera exists. then a list of 6 new lenses in one batch?

In any case it should not cost more than 15 grands body only.

[BernardLanguillier]

Wasn't this a rumor that started a couple of years ago by a few internet Nikon maniac that were frustrated of Nikon not even having a FF camera?

Yes, this rumour has indeed been around for some time now. Michael even commented on it a few months back in this very forum saying that this "was not much of a secret in the industry".

You've got to wonder why KenR is relaunching the rumor? Generating traffic on his site is probably the main reason.

But anyway, a Nikon sticker on a piece of equipment seems to be generate extremely strong allergic reactions in you, so I would advise that you stay away from Nikon MF even if it ends up being released.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BJNY]

Yes, this rumour has indeed been around for some time now. Michael even commented on it a few months back in this very forum saying that this "was not much of a secret in the industry".

Michael,
Would you be so kind to either confirm the MX system,
or put this rumor to rest, please?
Thank you,
Billy

[Ray]

Since so many of you have complained (and still continue to complain) about the high price of both Nikon's and Canon's flagship models, the D3X and 1Ds3, it seems to me a logical marketing move for both these companies to offer something of even better quality to distinguish their flagship models from the cheaper FF models such as the 5D MkII and the upgrade to the D700.

Such a move would not be merely an attempt to compete in the small MFDB market, but a move to expand the existing market for their current flagship DSLR models. If these two companies were to move in this direction, they would presumably still retain the 3 categories of DSLR, but instead of being (1) cropped format, (2) prosumer, budget full frame 35mm, (3) professional full frame 35mm of similar image quality to prosumer full frame but more sturdy; category (3) would be replaced by "professional MF DSLR, of better image quality than prosumer full frame 35mm, as well as being as sturdy and as waterproof as their current flagship models".

Makes sense to me   .

[paulmoorestudio]

Will Nikon introduce medium digital format in 2009?

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/mx.htm


Edited to add: will this seriously affect all current MFDB manufacturers and our current investments?
If Nikon will implement all their advanced electronic functions in M1, Nikon may seriously compete in the MFDB market.
Carl Zeiss already makes lenses for the Nikon 35mm, and so CZ may do for a large M1 sensor. What do you think?

it is hard to believe a guy who says stuff like this

 "Leica named its upcoming S2 medium format camera after Nikon's S2 rangefinder camera of 1954. The S2 was Nikon's last amateur camera made before Nikon's first professional camera, the SP rangefinder of 1956. This was Leica's way of saying "We've always owned the pro market; you people at Nikon are a bunch of amateurs; we will most assuredly defeat you this time" and "You think the S2 is cool? Just wait for us to show you what's next!"

how many of you think Leica named the S2 after the old nikon RF?  .. yeah that's what I thought.

[Carsten W]

it is hard to believe a guy who says stuff like this

 "Leica named its upcoming S2 medium format camera after Nikon's S2 rangefinder camera of 1954. The S2 was Nikon's last amateur camera made before Nikon's first professional camera, the SP rangefinder of 1956. This was Leica's way of saying "We've always owned the pro market; you people at Nikon are a bunch of amateurs; we will most assuredly defeat you this time" and "You think the S2 is cool? Just wait for us to show you what's next!"

how many of you think Leica named the S2 after the old nikon RF?  .. yeah that's what I thought.

Ken Rockhead is a flake. He invents rumours/"facts" every year.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Ken Rockhead is a flake. He invents rumours/"facts" every year.

I was thinking of trying to start a rumor that KR is a gifted photographer and an intelligent human being, but I'm afraid only a complete loony would believe it. 

[Ray]

I don't believe in those specs.

Considering that the D3x sensor already equal MF quality in terms of DR, why on earth would Nikon release a MF body with much larger photosites than those of the D3x?

Extrapolating the resolution from the D3x (24x36mm) to this supposed M1 sensor size (54x54mm), you would get a 82 MP sensor.

If the resolution where to be only less than 40MP, they could probably squeeze yet an extra stop of DR out of those and have extremely clean ISO 6400 and totally noiseless ISO 1600...

Cheers,
Bernard

It's interesting that the performance of the 8mp 20D is very similar to the performance of the 5D2, at the pixel level, according to the DXOmark charts for DR, SNR etc. In other words, from a purely image quality perspective, the 5D2 is a 20D sensor of 2.6x the area.

This suggests that it's becoming increasingly difficult to extract more quality from the individual pixel at this pixel pitch. The next logical increase in pixel count for Canon full frame will be a 15mp 50D sensor extrapolated to the full frame size, ie. 39mp. The increase in image quality would be comparable to the difference betweeen the 20D and 50D, ie. little improvement in noise and DR.

In order to provide a sufficiently attractive increase in image quality in order to justify the 2-3x increase in price, compared with a 5D Mk III of similar pixel count, there might be no alternative but for both Nikon and Canon to increase the sensor size in their flagship models.

[ziocan]

Ken Rockhead is a flake. He invents rumours/"facts" every year.

I do not know how many pennies per clicks he gets, but he may have got quite a few for those articles he writes. some are really funny though.
it is not about the rumors, it is just about the clicks.

[jimgolden]

well, now that alls the shows are over, guess that one is a myth...not that most doubted it...

[ndevlin]

Ken Rockwell is mostly full of shit, but I'd buy a Nikon MF system site-unseen.  Only Canon and Nikon have the sensor-tech and IS tech to make this kind of ideal 'tween' format camera a reality that's usable in a manner approximating the convenience of 35mm.  The S2 will be gorgeous, but madly expensive and of dubious lineage on the noise front.

Could be interesting times.

Of course, it could all just be smoke.....

- N.

[Leonardo Barreto]

We will probably see Nikkors like this one NIKKOR - H  50mm for a 6 x 6 BRONICA



There was an entire fleet of Nikkors for the 6 x 6 (and they are ironical "S2"). My father had a Bronica so I grew up with them .. nice to see them come back. Also it may not be such a crazy idea after all...

[BernardLanguillier]

well, now that alls the shows are over, guess that one is a myth...not that most doubted it...

I don't know if MX is real, but Nikon not having announced it at the PMA has not much meaning:

- The last 3 major releases by Nikon D700, D90 and D3x were announced away from photo equipment shows,
- Nikon has not made any significant annoucement in PMA for at least 4 years.

Really, what is the value for the big guys to make announcements during shows? The press will cover them in depth anyway, and they get a lot higher signal to noise ratio when there are no competing annoucements being made.

Shows are a pre internet age thing... that still have values for smaller players without the marketing power or the dealers network.

Cheers,
Bernard

[uaiomex]

And please don't forget Nikon also makes large format lenses.
Eduardo

We will probably see Nikkors like this one NIKKOR - H  50mm for a 6 x 6 BRONICA



There was an entire fleet of Nikkors for the 6 x 6 (and they are ironical "S2"). My father had a Bronica so I grew up with them .. nice to see them come back. Also it may not be such a crazy idea after all...

[ziocan]

Ken Rockwell is mostly full of shit, but I'd buy a Nikon MF system site-unseen.  Only Canon and Nikon have the sensor-tech and IS tech to make this kind of ideal 'tween' format camera a reality that's usable in a manner approximating the convenience of 35mm.  The S2 will be gorgeous, but madly expensive and of dubious lineage on the noise front.

- N.

I wonder who would make the sensor for nikon.

[Khun_K]

I don't know if MX is real, but Nikon not having announced it at the PMA has not much meaning:

- The last 3 major releases by Nikon D700, D90 and D3x were announced away from photo equipment shows,
- Nikon has not made any significant annoucement in PMA for at least 4 years.

Really, what is the value for the big guys to make announcements during shows? The press will cover them in depth anyway, and they get a lot higher signal to noise ratio when there are no competing annoucements being made.

Shows are a pre internet age thing... that still have values for smaller players without the marketing power or the dealers network.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rumor is a rumor. But if it is true, it is a good news, and if Canon also enter into this market, it is also a good news. Nikon and Canon both make beautiful optics, some of the best in the world, and selling at price not less than some Leica and Zeiss optics as the case for some cinematic lenses.  
As a photographer, my royalty is with the quality, what deliver qualify that is good to me and the client and it is a good system to own.  As a whole industry, competition is good, although we may see some good company, often very nice niche operator, been pushed out of business but this is all a part of life.
Pentax has been offering such wide range of format in those days, and proved a certain level of success with their 6X7, 6X4.5 and the beautiful LX, and the beautiful Contax line of G, RTS and later with N, ND and 645. I think eventually a good and selective of excellent optics that eventually can go into 2-3 different formats of camera body will be more than welcome to us the end users. Likewise, may be the day we see a 24X36 Hasselblad is also not far away?  Or eventually Zeiss really caught up our imagination and bring the beautiful Contax N and 645 back in digital package?
In any case, I still believe the move Leica move with their S2 is bold and smart. It is focus on the quality easily meet most of the demand, and focus on a compact, truly mobile package, and not to attack much larger sensor to have to build larger lens and larger body. With a camera size as is, lens as is, and cost smartly, I will be one of the buyers, and many among us I believe.  And I thought S2 was name after Leica's own S1, a high end digital system although a scanning system, rather than naming it after Nikon. And why a company such as Nikon has to find an ancient Leica to name after?  If it indeed happen and called M1, I think it is the right logic and a perfect name with it.
Regards, K

[ndevlin]

I wonder who would make the sensor for nikon.

I don't think they'd get any grief from their current supply chain, since there would be no direct competition.  What I meant by 'sensor tech' is the ability to take a sensor and actually get a high quality image out of the other end after inserting into a camera.  This is what Leica struggled with on the M8, likely because they just don't have the R&D muscle of the big-boys.  The S2 will be interesting, as I gather they've pretty much handed that responsibility to Phase, who definitely have the know-how (the Phase family resemblance is pretty apparent on the rear layout of the S2 as well).

- N.

[ThierryH]

Dear N., FYI:

The digital part and electronics in the M8 have been made by Jenoptik for Leica.

This is what Leica struggled with on the M8, likely because they just don't have the R&D muscle of the big-boys.

As far as my information goes, the S2 is a 100% Leica development.

Best regards,
Thierry

The S2 will be interesting, as I gather they've pretty much handed that responsibility to Phase, who definitely have the know-how (the Phase family resemblance is pretty apparent on the rear layout of the S2 as well).

- N.