Leica M3: How does it compare?

[ChrisS]

I'm thinking to get my father's Leica M3 repaired (not too expensive, apparently), but I'm not sure what to expect in terms of the qualities it will produce. It looks and feels great, but how will the results look compared to a modern mid-range digital SLR? Does it have any advantages?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

[ndevlin]

Chris,

The results will look nothing like a modern dslr. Which is why you should definitely try it

Not better. Just different. And the experience of interacting with such a minimalistic camera is a healthy exercise.

- N.

[250swb]

As well as the lens it is mainly the type of film used that will make the difference as film camera bodies do not have inherent traits of their own, unlike DSLR's.

The M3 is well worth having fettled if you want to get into using film. It isn't the best introduction into Leica because of its limited viewfinder frames (no real wide angle), and an M4-P or later camera may be better suited to modern expectations. It has all the Leica advantages of being small and quiet and tough and very reliable. Assuming you have no darkroom and don't have a scanner the downsides are you need to scan the negs/tranny's, or have them transfered to CD by the film processer (expensive). I'd recommend trying a roll of Ilford HP5 for B&W, or Fuji Velvia for colour transparency.

Steve

[ChrisS]

Thanks for the replies. I just ran a film through the camera and had it processed in a lab. It was terrible! But I've now learned how to lock the lens out (as opposed to allowing it to collapse a bit while adjusting aperture!), so the next roll should be a bit nearer to focus. Interestingly, there was no sign of the mis-timed curtains that I remember it having last time it was used, several years ago. Also, the rangefinder is a little bit misty - can I do anything about that?

Thanks for the film recommendations - I do a lot of B&W processing from my 40D, so it will be interesting to compare. If I scan the film and process digitally, will I lose the quality/ feel I might expect from the camera if I do the prints in a darkroom? (I do have access to one, but haven't done any work in a dark room for a couple of decades!).

Thanks

Chris

[Rob C]

Thanks for the film recommendations - I do a lot of B&W processing from my 40D, so it will be interesting to compare. If I scan the film and process digitally, will I lose the quality/ feel I might expect from the camera if I do the prints in a darkroom? (I do have access to one, but haven't done any work in a dark room for a couple of decades!).

Thanks

Chris

Chris

You have to make some assumptions first: your exposures are good; your film processing is good; you have a dedicated scanner.

I have scanned much stuff of my own from Kodachrome and several black/white film types and, in most cases, have been delighted with the results of printing these scans as black/whites on Hahnmuehle Photo Rag Bright White via an HP B9180 prnter.

The tweaking you can do is pretty useful and surpasses what seemed possible for mere mortals in the wet darkroom. The only times I feel the wet was better is when I am faced with doing some generalised, broad shading which would have been almost instinctive by hand but does not seem to fit the rather "deliberate" digital selections technique that brilliantly. Might just be me - probably is.

So yes, if you know what you´re doing, you might love what can be achieved from scanned film.

But playing with an M3 could be its own reward!

Rob C

[ChrisS]

... if you know what you´re doing ...

Thanks Rob - yes, that's the potential weak link in all this!

[bob mccarthy]

Chris, I still shoot a with a M2. Typically B&W only. M3 and M2 are similar other than lens range M2 is 35-50-90 and M3 is 50-90-135.

Images have a really special look. Fantastic camera.

What's wrong with the camera and what lenses do you have. Some of the early lenses suffered with fogging depending on storage.

If in nice shape, it still has  strong collectors following.

bob

[ChrisS]

Chris, I still shoot a with a M2. Typically B&W only. M3 and M2 are similar other than lens range M2 is 35-50-90 and M3 is 50-90-135.

Images have a really special look. Fantastic camera.

What's wrong with the camera and what lenses do you have. Some of the early lenses suffered with fogging depending on storage.

If in nice shape, it still has  strong collectors following.

bob

The serial number is 998k, it has an MC meter and Leitz Wetzlar 2.8 50mm Elmar collapsible lens. The fault is that a greying occurs sometimes to the left or right of the pictures - perhaps to do with the timing of the shutter/ curtains? Last time I used it (several years ago), it was fine apart from that - though there does seem to be some fogging in the rangefinder. (Is that a big job to fix? I can live with it if necessary.) I'm going to shoot another roll of film in the next day or so and have a repair shop look at the prints and do the repair if the curtains need it.

I love the feel of the camera, and I'm enjoying the challenge already!

Chris

[bob mccarthy]

The serial number is 998k, it has an MC meter and Leitz Wetzlar 2.8 50mm Elmar collapsible lens. The fault is that a greying occurs sometimes to the left or right of the pictures - perhaps to do with the timing of the shutter/ curtains? Last time I used it (several years ago), it was fine apart from that - though there does seem to be some fogging in the rangefinder. (Is that a big job to fix? I can live with it if necessary.) I'm going to shoot another roll of film in the next day or so and have a repair shop look at the prints and do the repair if the curtains need it.

I love the feel of the camera, and I'm enjoying the challenge already!

Chris

that makes it into the "later" category. Thats a good thing.

CLA is not too bad. Expensive is rangefinder repair/adjust as they're glued together with some natural balsum glue.

But it's worth $1k, maybe more if superclean.

if it like a gradient darker to lighter across frame it's likely a shutter/curtain. No big deal there.

shine flashlight through lens is best way to see if lens is fogged.

ton's of info on web about your camera.

Absolutely worth keeping.

bob

[bob mccarthy]

The serial number is 998k, it has an MC meter and Leitz Wetzlar 2.8 50mm Elmar collapsible lens. The fault is that a greying occurs sometimes to the left or right of the pictures - perhaps to do with the timing of the shutter/ curtains? Last time I used it (several years ago), it was fine apart from that - though there does seem to be some fogging in the rangefinder. (Is that a big job to fix? I can live with it if necessary.) I'm going to shoot another roll of film in the next day or so and have a repair shop look at the prints and do the repair if the curtains need it.

I love the feel of the camera, and I'm enjoying the challenge already!

Chris

not familiar with that meter, if its one of the old selenium meters its pretty much trash. Mine is a MR by metrawatt. Luna Pro in the pocket works great too.

found a thread on photo.net you might garner some insight.

http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/0054HA

bob

[situgrrl]

Comparing an M with an SLR is apples and oranges IMO.  I sold my DSLR for an M4-P because I prefer the way it makes pictures.  I wish it were digital though!

A couple of weeks ago, the strap slipped and the camera took a 2' tumble on to the paving slabs of Trafalgar Square damaging the vulcanite and throwing the RF alignment massively.  The realign was £95 and a replacement cover about $20.  I would suggest sending yours for a CLA somewhere reputable which will solve the misty VF as well as get your shutter speeds bang on (ish!) and provide you a reliable camera for years to come.

[250swb]

I think it sounds like the camera needs a clean and service, but as we now know you have a scanner the world is your oyster!

If you want to have some fun with lenses I'd recommend the Voigtlander range of Leica screw mount lenses (used with a bayonet adaptor), or Voigtlander 'M' mount lenses. They are a fraction of the price of Leica equivalents and offer superb quality.

All this is making me think of getting my Leica MP fired up again!

Steve

[pegelli]

All this is making me think of getting my Leica MP fired up again!
Steve

Me too, I've been following this thread and it has encouraged me to get my M2 out, put a B&W film in it and see what it gives. Haven't peeked through the lenses a long time, so need to check them out as well.

[JohnBrew]

I'm thinking to get my father's Leica M3 repaired (not too expensive, apparently), but I'm not sure what to expect in terms of the qualities it will produce. It looks and feels great, but how will the results look compared to a modern mid-range digital SLR? Does it have any advantages?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Chris, I shoot an M3 side-by-side with an M8. After all these years it is still a fantastic camera and mine still makes money for me. I think you'll be better served with a more modern lens, however. Advantages, IMO, over a DSLR, are size, weight, build quality, reliability and inconspicuosity (is that a word?). There is a lot to be said for an all manual camera. The bw films I shoot are Efke 25, Delta 100 and TMY-2. I like Astia for slide film.
Good luck.

[ChrisS]

Thanks for your comments, everyone. The more I read, the more committed I am to getting the most from this camera. In a world in which there's a constant drive toward bigger and better, I think there's probably a lot to be said for exploring and making the most of what we've already got.

I had another film processed today - this time, with the lens locked at the extended length (!) - and they were perfectly focused and clear, I'm relieved to say. Again, there is no sign of the greying that I thought was the shutter mis-timing, so maybe that's not an issue. I'm also pleased (but slightly embarrassed) to say that the fogging of the rangefinder is now gone, having cleaned the glass on the rangefinder...

Would it do any good to post examples of works done with the M3 and other old Leicas, or would the quality of the images be lost on the web? Once I've got everything in place, I might try some comparative shots - the same subject with the M3 and my 40D with comparable settings - to see what happens. If it makes any (visual) sense, I'll post them. Does anyone have any that would show what their old Leica can do?

Edit - ps It also seems as if the Meter MC is working fine too - I bracketed either side of the aperture it was recommending, and the best shot was what the reading stated. Maybe it has lasted well because it has spent most of its life in the ERC/ dark?

[250swb]

I have always found the MC meter to be very good Chris, but when they fail there is no alternative but to buy a decent modern meter.

For Leica photo's have a look on Flickr. Search the Flickr 'Groups' for Leica and a whole load turn up, including a Leica M3 group. Lots of inspirational photo's, and many typical of Leica qualities and the use the camera is put to. Also look up the famous Leica 'M' photographers like Cartier-Bresson,  almost any Vietnam war journalist,  etc for other typical M3 photo's. You soon learn that a massive amount of modern recorded social history is due to the Leica and its qualities.

Steve

[situgrrl]

Chris - that sounds like a chance for me to shamelessly plug my website which is in my sig.  If it's b&w, its leica with a voigtlander 35mm 2.5 on either Tri X or XP2.  I've cut down my system even further now; I'm not replacing the XP2!