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Author Topic: 1DsmkIII  (Read 13829 times)

KevinA

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« on: February 04, 2009, 01:47:02 pm »

I just had a conversation with a colleague  who is in the same line of photography as me, we shoot aerials. The talk came round to equipment it turned out we both have the 1DsmkIII, I asked him does he have a problem with out of focus pictures. I think I hit upon a soar point, he's been back and forth to Canon with the problem. I thought it was just me not picking the right setting, I think the problem is getting worse. In fact I'm getting quite paranoid about it. When I shoot on the ground it does not cause a problem, in the air it goes wrong. Sometimes they are so far out I can't believe I would not of seen it in the view finder. I've been at this game for over 30 years I know the difference between out of focus and camera shake. Now I know it's not just me it goes back to the shop tomorrow to see what they say.
I read about the focus issues earlier with the 1dmkIII I came to the conclusion that the circumstances it was supposed to happen were not an issue for my work. It isn't lens specific either tele or wide. Anyone else had problems like this and did Canon fix anything?
It looks like back to the smkII and Kodak SLR/n now that is sharp, until something gets fixed.

Kevin.


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lisa_r

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1DsmkIII
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 03:10:26 pm »

Hi Kevin, I get just about 100% in-focus shots with my 1Ds3 at all times. Even wide open. (the 5D2 is another story...)
Are you using different lenses for the aerials than you are on the ground? If so, perhaps they need to be micro-adjusted?
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Josh-H

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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 04:23:17 pm »

No problems here with my 1DSMK3 - my hit rate for in focus images is 100% when shooting landscapes  -but I dont shoot from the air.
My hit rate for shooting kids is less - maybee 75% as the little blighters rarely sit still and I am almost always shooting wide or close to wide open.
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arashm

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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 06:35:37 pm »

Hi Kevin
all I'm going to say is that it's not just you with "issues" with canon gear.
I'm positive that there are photographers out there that are happy with their canon gear... however of all the gear I own... the canon's go into the shop the most for front/back focus and calibration issues.
if you have any particular questions please pm me.
good luck.
am
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David Anderson

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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 07:03:01 pm »

Hi Kevin,

What lenses are you using, and what shutter speeds ?

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Khun_K

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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 08:23:32 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
I just had a conversation with a colleague  who is in the same line of photography as me, we shoot aerials. The talk came round to equipment it turned out we both have the 1DsmkIII, I asked him does he have a problem with out of focus pictures. I think I hit upon a soar point, he's been back and forth to Canon with the problem. I thought it was just me not picking the right setting, I think the problem is getting worse. In fact I'm getting quite paranoid about it. When I shoot on the ground it does not cause a problem, in the air it goes wrong. Sometimes they are so far out I can't believe I would not of seen it in the view finder. I've been at this game for over 30 years I know the difference between out of focus and camera shake. Now I know it's not just me it goes back to the shop tomorrow to see what they say.
I read about the focus issues earlier with the 1dmkIII I came to the conclusion that the circumstances it was supposed to happen were not an issue for my work. It isn't lens specific either tele or wide. Anyone else had problems like this and did Canon fix anything?
It looks like back to the smkII and Kodak SLR/n now that is sharp, until something gets fixed.

Kevin.
I have been using 1Ds original till now the Mark 3, they all focus quite well, perhaps I would say the latest one with best focus. My only issue was with just one lens, the 35/1.4 - on both 1Ds 2 and 1Ds 3, very strange, but with micro adjustment I have no problem at all now.
Regards, K
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dwdallam

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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 09:10:34 pm »

I thought it was just me but I see this problem infrequently. I was like you thinking, "I know I didn't shoot that image that out of focus." Can you post some images?

Maybe I should do the front and back focus tests and see if mine is performing like it should. Are there any tests other than the old 10D test from Atkins, or is that still the test of tests?
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KevinA

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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 03:02:44 am »

Quote from: KevinA
I just had a conversation with a colleague  who is in the same line of photography as me, we shoot aerials. The talk came round to equipment it turned out we both have the 1DsmkIII, I asked him does he have a problem with out of focus pictures. I think I hit upon a soar point, he's been back and forth to Canon with the problem. I thought it was just me not picking the right setting, I think the problem is getting worse. In fact I'm getting quite paranoid about it. When I shoot on the ground it does not cause a problem, in the air it goes wrong. Sometimes they are so far out I can't believe I would not of seen it in the view finder. I've been at this game for over 30 years I know the difference between out of focus and camera shake. Now I know it's not just me it goes back to the shop tomorrow to see what they say.
I read about the focus issues earlier with the 1dmkIII I came to the conclusion that the circumstances it was supposed to happen were not an issue for my work. It isn't lens specific either tele or wide. Anyone else had problems like this and did Canon fix anything?
It looks like back to the smkII and Kodak SLR/n now that is sharp, until something gets fixed.

Kevin.

It's infinity I have decided it has trouble with, sitting in my house in low light it's bang on every time. If I point it at trees some distance away it is a bit hit or miss.
Someone asked about shutter speed, usually a 1/1000th or less. When I shot film it was often 1/250th and 1/1000th being the quickest, no problem with vibration/shake then if that's what you are thinking.
Lenses most used 17-40mm, 50mm 1.4,   70 - 200mm f2.8. it happens with them all.
Those that don't have a problem, try it on infinity, I can see most people could go their whole lives and never focus on infinity unfortunately most of what I shoot is.

Kevin.
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KevinA

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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 03:20:35 am »

Quote from: lisa_r
Hi Kevin, I get just about 100% in-focus shots with my 1Ds3 at all times. Even wide open. (the 5D2 is another story...)
Are you using different lenses for the aerials than you are on the ground? If so, perhaps they need to be micro-adjusted?

Hi,
Same lenses, I have not micro adjusted as they are spot on at normal distances I thought I might end up with lenses that don't work at any distance, besides they are sharp often, the percentage of un-sharp is just to high for me to trust it.

Kevin.
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dwdallam

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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 06:40:42 am »

That makes sense. Whenever I use "infinity" I don't allow the camera to do it, since it really has no focal point. It's just saying, "Far, infinity." What I do is focus on something as close as I can that would need to be set to infinity, and do it manually. One thing is that the infinity mark is not spot on either, so manually adjusting it to the mark without looking through the viewfinder is a recipe for blurry images. My infinity mark usually needs to be backed off about 3/16" to make it crisp.
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KevinA

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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2009, 10:40:11 am »

Quote from: dwdallam
That makes sense. Whenever I use "infinity" I don't allow the camera to do it, since it really has no focal point. It's just saying, "Far, infinity." What I do is focus on something as close as I can that would need to be set to infinity, and do it manually. One thing is that the infinity mark is not spot on either, so manually adjusting it to the mark without looking through the viewfinder is a recipe for blurry images. My infinity mark usually needs to be backed off about 3/16" to make it crisp.

These lenses are hopeless for focusing manually in the air, especially the 70-200mm. On my old Pentax 67 I would just focus it once then tape it, never had a problem. I am pointing at buildings not fuzzy trees when flying, my old Kodak SLR/n can manage it without a problem, the Canon has gone away now, so I will see what they say.
I really hope I don't need to change camera systems to get this resolved to my satisfaction, I just know I would go the MF route.

Kevin.
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joedecker

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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2009, 11:16:16 am »

Quote from: KevinA
It's infinity I have decided it has trouble with, sitting in my house in low light it's bang on every time. If I point it at trees some distance away it is a bit hit or miss.
Someone asked about shutter speed, usually a 1/1000th or less. When I shot film it was often 1/250th and 1/1000th being the quickest, no problem with vibration/shake then if that's what you are thinking.
Lenses most used 17-40mm, 50mm 1.4,   70 - 200mm f2.8. it happens with them all.
Those that don't have a problem, try it on infinity, I can see most people could go their whole lives and never focus on infinity unfortunately most of what I shoot is.

Kevin.

Haven't had a problem with it, and I do shoot fairly often with my 1Ds3 at or near infinity, but if you're doing aerial at those speeds, I do less that are infinity-and-wide-open, which would mask a lot of the focus errors you're seeing.   I don't believe the problem you describe at all.

And if you're seeing the focus errors when you're shooting from the ground, then yeah, it's not the airplane (airplane?).  I was suspicious of this at first, the Ds3's resolution is going to require a faster shutter speed for a sharp result than color film or your previous digital cameras would, but ...  the trees-from-the-ground really nails this as a problem in your cameras AF.

In any case, if you have fairly consistent problems focusing on a fixed infinity target from the ground, you're using single-shot focus and you're getting feedback that AF thinks it's locked, that sure sounds like something to nail down and take up with Canon service.

Also, agree with Dwdallam that the physical focus mark isn't going to necessarily be right on your lens.  In particular, at least with some lenses there's a detectable change in the offset over large swings in temperature, this is something I've observed playing with astrophotography.

--Joe
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KevinA

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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 11:48:36 am »

Quote from: joedecker
Haven't had a problem with it, and I do shoot fairly often with my 1Ds3 at or near infinity, but if you're doing aerial at those speeds, I do less that are infinity-and-wide-open, which would mask a lot of the focus errors you're seeing.   I don't believe the problem you describe at all.

And if you're seeing the focus errors when you're shooting from the ground, then yeah, it's not the airplane (airplane?).  I was suspicious of this at first, the Ds3's resolution is going to require a faster shutter speed for a sharp result than color film or your previous digital cameras would, but ...  the trees-from-the-ground really nails this as a problem in your cameras AF.

In any case, if you have fairly consistent problems focusing on a fixed infinity target from the ground, you're using single-shot focus and you're getting feedback that AF thinks it's locked, that sure sounds like something to nail down and take up with Canon service.

Also, agree with Dwdallam that the physical focus mark isn't going to necessarily be right on your lens.  In particular, at least with some lenses there's a detectable change in the offset over large swings in temperature, this is something I've observed playing with astrophotography.

--Joe

Hi Joe,
 "Those speeds" I've been shooting at for a number of years, in the days befoer technology made it "easier", then 100iso non stabilised lenses (I used a gyro) big flapping Pentax mirror, 10 shots per job. Now faster lenses (on paper), 400iso stabilised lens, much faster shutter speeds, better damped smaller mirror. And less success rate per number taken.

Kevin.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 11:49:25 am by KevinA »
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joedecker

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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 05:12:16 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
Hi Joe,
 "Those speeds" I've been shooting at for a number of years, in the days befoer technology made it "easier", then 100iso non stabilised lenses (I used a gyro) big flapping Pentax mirror, 10 shots per job. Now faster lenses (on paper), 400iso stabilised lens, much faster shutter speeds, better damped smaller mirror. And less success rate per number taken.

Kevin.

Not arguing, Kevin, I'm sure you know your stuff, sorry if I wasn't clear.

I was attempting to point out what you already know for the ("viewers at home", heh) that you're going to be able to detect a smaller camera motion on the 1Ds3 sensor than you would on film.  Probably another stop.   With the experience you've got, and shutter speeds under a thousandth, that's totally *not* what's going on in your case, of course.

Cheers,

--j
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KevinA

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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 06:03:17 pm »

Quote from: joedecker
Not arguing, Kevin, I'm sure you know your stuff, sorry if I wasn't clear.

I was attempting to point out what you already know for the ("viewers at home", heh) that you're going to be able to detect a smaller camera motion on the 1Ds3 sensor than you would on film.  Probably another stop.   With the experience you've got, and shutter speeds under a thousandth, that's totally *not* what's going on in your case, of course.

Cheers,

--j

No Joe you were perfectly clear sorry if my reply read differently to how it sounded when I was typing it.

Kevin.
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 07:16:54 pm »

Quote from: KevinA
No Joe you were perfectly clear sorry if my reply read differently to how it sounded when I was typing it.

Kevin.

Kevin,

On your D3x question, having just read this other thread I can now see that this was a real question. Unfortunately, I can only answer that I don' know. I have no noticed any obviously oof images with the D3/D3x that were not user errors, but I very often focus manually using life view and might not have seen a problem with infinity focus even if there were one.

It is true that all the AF-S/USM lenses are a pain since it is all too easy to change the focus by mistake when touching the lens. They should all have a "no focus" mode.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 09:20:30 pm »

My D3x has a tendency to pick up high-contrast subjects close to the selected focus point and then back-focus slightly.

CONCERNING THE AERIALS, something in the Canon sensors in the 1DII required shooting at higher speeds to freeze action. This was told me by CPS, action shooters were having issues. Possibly this issue persists on later models.



Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Kevin,

On your D3x question, having just read this other thread I can now see that this was a real question. Unfortunately, I can only answer that I don' know. I have no noticed any obviously oof images with the D3/D3x that were not user errors, but I very often focus manually using life view and might not have seen a problem with infinity focus even if there were one.

It is true that all the AF-S/USM lenses are a pain since it is all too easy to change the focus by mistake when touching the lens. They should all have a "no focus" mode.

Cheers,
Bernard
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dwdallam

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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2009, 02:36:09 am »

Quote from: eronald
My D3x has a tendency to pick up high-contrast subjects close to the selected focus point and then back-focus slightly.

Damn! I new it wasn't me. I've noticed that when doing people photography and I want the eye to have equal font and back focus, but it's usually one or the other, and it pisses me off.
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David Anderson

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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2009, 02:57:58 am »

Quote from: eronald
CONCERNING THE AERIALS, something in the Canon sensors in the 1DII required shooting at higher speeds to freeze action. This was told me by CPS, action shooters were having issues. Possibly this issue persists on later models.

This is why I asked about lenses and shutter speeds - I would assume you know what you're doing up there, but I did want to add that in my experience with the DsIII's (and with a D3x I tried for a few days recently) you get away with nothing - any little problem is magnified by the resolution.


Anyway, I hope you and Canon get it sorted..


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joedecker

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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2009, 03:05:36 am »

Quote from: KevinA
No Joe you were perfectly clear sorry if my reply read differently to how it sounded when I was typing it.

No worries.    

--Joe
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