Having regrets I purchased Epson 7900 instead of 9900.

[dgberg]

Well I have  had Epsons 7900 for just over a month and just love it.  My problem in hindsight is I think I bought the wrong printer. I am opening a Canvas Gallery in part of my cabinetry showroom and thought 20 X 30 canvas wraps would be plenty large. Using 24" canvas by the time I stretch and wrap I am closer to 19" by 26. Thats not very big. Sure you can go out to 36" or so but you are stuck with that -20" number with  1 1/2" stretcher plus the amount you lose for the back. Another $6,000 for the 9900 would not kill me but to feed 3 printers with ink , paper and service issues for a part time business?
Space is really the issue the 7900 is big,the 9900 is huge! Of course all of this is in my home/business office and you can see from the attached pic their is no room left. The new gallery space is attached to my cabinetry shop and even though we do our best to keep it clean its a dust magnet. No place to put a printer. I could sell the 7900, but really like it and do not want to take a big time loss. 20" canvas wraps really look lost on all the wall space we have to cover. For the time being I can mat 22" X 32" regular prints and with the 4" mats they will be 30" X 40". Now that should cover the walls until I make up my mind.
Dan Berg
www.bergscustomfurniture.com

[bill t.]

I went through the same deal on my 7800!  Finally bought a 9880.  Now I'm thinking I should have gone for the 11880.  Is there no end?

Admittedly only about 25% of my prints are bigger than I could have made on the 7800, but at least it is more convenient to run big pano prints in stripped-up pairs and smaller ones with the long axis on the 44" dimension.

Consider mounting your 24" canvases on some kind of board.  I would have said Gatorfoam except the archivalists would jump all over me.  David Ward here turned me on to Miracle Muck which is a very good fabric glue.  Glue mounting is no more difficult than stretching, but it is a little messier.  I've also dry mounted 24 x really_long prints with Fusion 4000 dry mount tissue using an old Seal 500T-X press.

[dgberg]

I went through the same deal on my 7800!  Finally bought a 9880.  Now I'm thinking I should have gone for the 11880.  Is there no end?

Admittedly only about 25% of my prints are bigger than I could have made on the 7800, but at least it is more convenient to run big pano prints in stripped-up pairs and smaller ones with the long axis on the 44" dimension.

Consider mounting your 24" canvases on some kind of board.  I would have said Gatorfoam except the archivalists would jump all over me.  David Ward here turned me on to Miracle Muck which is a very good fabric glue.  Glue mounting is no more difficult than stretching, but it is a little messier.  I've also dry mounted 24 x really_long prints with Fusion 4000 dry mount tissue using an old Seal 500T-X press.

Thanks Bill
Since I have the equipment in our shop to cut just about anything,what would the ideal backboard be? I also have a spray booth with pressure pot for spraying adhesive(For laminate) and could spray mount canvas sizes up to 24" X 36". I do not want to get into framing. If I would spray and mount the larger canvases to a backboard of sorts I wonder if customers would mind buying these and taking them somewhere else to get framed? I know most people would much prefer a one stop shop. I see David Ward lives less then an hour from me. Maybe I should give him a call.
Dan berg

[Bartone]

Dan - easy fix: simply remove that unnecessary chair and your office will provide plenty of room. Learn to stand while working.  Get rid of the stupid desk, and hey - you could fit in TWO more printers!

bartone

BTW, check out White House canvases - they mount on some sort of board that they describe on the site - and it looks terrific. Maybe the texture of the canvas shows up even more when mounted this way.

[Paul2660]

Dan

I would also consider taking a larger print and printing it in 3 segments, you can still
get to a larger output that way with a 24 inch printer.  Creating a tryptic which are very
popular.

Paul C

         

Thanks Bill
Since I have the equipment in our shop to cut just about anything,what would the ideal backboard be? I also have a spray booth with pressure pot for spraying adhesive(For laminate) and could spray mount canvas sizes up to 24" X 36". I do not want to get into framing. If I would spray and mount the larger canvases to a backboard of sorts I wonder if customers would mind buying these and taking them somewhere else to get framed? I know most people would much prefer a one stop shop. I see David Ward lives less then an hour from me. Maybe I should give him a call.
Dan berg

[bill t.]

Well if you're going to spray mount you have departed from strict archival squeaky-cleanness, so you might as well use Gatorfoam which is much like foamcore but a great deal stiffer.

I pay $47 for individual sheets of 4x8, 3/16" Gatorfoam, versus $9 the same size of ordinary foamcore.  Or you can just use 3/16" or 1/2" foamcore for sizes like 24x36.  BTW you can also use Masonite ($10/sheet).  A lot of framers would use Scotch 77 spray for that kind of application...that's not an endorsement, just an observation.  I like to roll Muck on the board with a paint roller and lower the print onto that...use an assistant or tape down one end on the worktable first.  The print should be pre-coated with ClearShield or Glamour or some coating that has had enough drying time so that you can run a cotton gloved hand over the surface to press it down good.

A relatively determined person can cut Gatorfoam with a utility knife.  My supplier will cut it for me for free as long as I don't ask for a whole bunch of 8x10's or something.  Tables saws work well too, as do the wall-mounted media cutters used by framers.

The only problem with selling board mounted prints to customers is the elegance problem.  There's just something pretty Home Depot about a print glued to a board.  If your marketing department can figure out a way to put a good spin on it, then go for it.  Frankly, at that point about 70% of the framing work is done, it would not be a huge additional step to slap a frame around it.  If you're working in standard sizes there are several suppliers who can sell you really great looking pre-made frames for way under $100 in the 24x36 to 30x40 sizes, I just came back from talking to a bunch of them in Las Vegas.

[Bob Smith]

I have a 9600 and 9800.  I probably burn through more 10" rolls of Premium Luster than anything else but I'm still glad I have the larger printers for those times when I need them... and printing canvas is when I most often need the larger size.  As you've discovered, by the time you add the amount of canvas needed for stretching and wrapping around the frame, there's not much left of a 24" roll.  Even if you don't use the printer as a full time business, it just takes the sale of a very small number of larger prints to cover the cost difference of the larger printer.  As long as you have the space for the thing, the larger printer can handle small jobs every bit as well as a desktop printer.  It just prints (and allow you to sell) huge too.

I recently purchased one of these:

DryTac Roll Laminator

for a special project that required producing a number of 24x36 prints on Premium Luster mounted to DiBond.  It's cold mounting process is very easy to use.  The other day I tried doing a piece of canvas that way as I wanted a canvas panel that would easily fit into an existing frame that held a color photographic print flush dry mounted to art board.  The finished canvas panel looked wonderful.  That type of mount would allow you to use very near the full width of your 24" canvas so it might give sizes more to your liking.  I've heard of doing this type of canvas mounting by rolling on Miracle Muck adhesive onto the panel but I've not tried it.  For a small number of prints that would certainly be more cost effective if a bit more time consuming.  Might be worth looking into.

I use and like GatorFoam but the Dibond is even nicer.  I pay about $67 per 4x8 sheet (3mm white).  It requires a table saw or panel cutter to cut it down.  It's flatter, thinner and more durable than GatorFoam.

[dgberg]

I have a 9600 and 9800.  I probably burn through more 10" rolls of Premium Luster than anything else but I'm still glad I have the larger printers for those times when I need them... and printing canvas is when I most often need the larger size.  As you've discovered, by the time you add the amount of canvas needed for stretching and wrapping around the frame, there's not much left of a 24" roll.  Even if you don't use the printer as a full time business, it just takes the sale of a very small number of larger prints to cover the cost difference of the larger printer.  As long as you have the space for the thing, the larger printer can handle small jobs every bit as well as a desktop printer.  It just prints (and allow you to sell) huge too.

I recently purchased one of these:

DryTac Roll Laminator

for a special project that required producing a number of 24x36 prints on Premium Luster mounted to DiBond.  It's cold mounting process is very easy to use.  The other day I tried doing a piece of canvas that way as I wanted a canvas panel that would easily fit into an existing frame that held a color photographic print flush dry mounted to art board.  The finished canvas panel looked wonderful.  That type of mount would allow you to use very near the full width of your 24" canvas so it might give sizes more to your liking.  I've heard of doing this type of canvas mounting by rolling on Miracle Muck adhesive onto the panel but I've not tried it.  For a small number of prints that would certainly be more cost effective if a bit more time consuming.  Might be worth looking into.

I use and like GatorFoam but the Dibond is even nicer.  I pay about $67 per 4x8 sheet (3mm white).  It requires a table saw or panel cutter to cut it down.  It's flatter, thinner and more durable than GatorFoam.

Thaks Bill and Bob,good thoughts.
I have a large wall mounted Striebig panel saw for cutting our 10 foot plywood sheets and could cut that Dibond quite easily. Spraying with adhesive is easy for me as well. Now I have to get passed the no frame look unless I want to buy the premade metal frames from American Frame.
Dan Berg

[framah]

Just so you all know... as soon as you use adhesives to mount anything down flat to any substrate, it is not archival.

Archival applies when the procedure you use to mount can be reversed leaving nothing on or in the art.  That means that if you use any adhesive it will leave a chemical residue in the paper or canvas or whatever. It doesn't matter if it is ph neutral or "acid free".

Hinging with rice paste and mulberry paper hinges is archival because when reversed, it leaves no chemicals in the art.

So... in that vein.. go ahead and mount it flat onto anything you want.

The general consensus is to mount canvases as the canvas materials being printed on tend to sag after stretching and no amount of restretching will ever stop it.  Obviously, the smaller pieces don't show the sagging as much.


By the way, we framers almost never use Spray 77 as it spatters when sprayed and leaves varying thicknesses of glue which can (and usually does) bleed thru the art.  Any framer who uses Spray 77 is not one of the better framers out there and I would suggest finding another framer who uses proper techniques  and materials.