Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Panasonic G1...is it needed?  (Read 15480 times)

DarkPenguin

  • Guest
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2008, 12:37:21 pm »

Doesn't it have a histogram option, too?
Logged

lensfactory

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2008, 02:28:10 pm »

Quote from: 250swb
And here is a party trick an EVF can do that no conventional viewfinder DSLR can do, it can increase the gain so you can see better to compose and focus in dim light. I'm sure I could go on, but the gist is that the baby shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater.

Steve

Yes it can do a few things that an optical viewfinder can't, but the image is just so inferior.Oh I'm sure your right that it will one day be there....but not yet. Maybe in about ten years. I'm talking about an EVF of high enough quality to replace an optical viewfinder ie. the human eye.
Logged

BJL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6600
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2008, 10:41:12 am »

Quote from: MarkL
I wonder if in removing the mirror box they encountered the same issues as leica with the M8 or perhaps the sensor is small enough to avoid them.
m4/3 lens designs should be able to avoid the problem that some short focal length rangefinder lenses have with electronic sensors. The problems for those Leica wide-angle lenses is that they use near-symmetric lens designs, which are optically nice and more compact than SLR lens designs of equal focal length, but have a low exit pupil height, meaning that light reaches the corners of the 35mm frame at a substantially off-perpendicular angle: maybe even more than Kodak's off-set microlens approach can handle.


But most digital cameras are already mirrorless (all the small sensor compacts plus the Sony R1 and Sigma DP-1 and DP-2) and these often use lens designs that are more compact due to allowing the rear lens elements to sit close to the focal plane while still having a high enough exit pupil to work well with the sensors of those cameras. These lens need to be somewhat retro-focal at wide angles, so are not as compact as traditional rangefinder wide angle lenses, but there is still more design flexibility than with an SLR lens. The lenses for the Sigma DP-1 and DP-2, a 16.6mm f/4 wide angle and 24.2mm f/2.8 "wide normal" respectively for Sigma's 25mm diagonal sensor, might give a hint as to what is possible with small primes for mirror-less cameras using DSLR sized sensors. But I am far more interested in smallish zooms, like a 2x wide and a 3x standard.


Anyway, the bottom line is that eliminating the mirror only adds design options that SLR's do not have, it does not rule out any design choices, including simply using existing SLR lens designs in some cases (like telephotos): m4/3 lens designers simply have more options and trade-offs to choose between. I can imagine some entry-level m4/3 lenses being designed to be as small, light and inexpensive as possible, at the cost of relying on some software correction for light fall-off towards the edges of the frame --- after all, that is good enough for Hasselblad with its 28mm! Higher level m4/3 lenses could instead favor stricter optical performance standards at the cost of being less compact.
Logged

DarkPenguin

  • Guest
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2008, 08:10:48 pm »

Played with a G1 today.  With lens it is quite small.  The viewfinder is tremendous.  Just huge.  I'm sure it has some issues but in normal light it is great.
Logged

lensfactory

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2008, 08:16:56 pm »

MR didn't bother to mention that the Olympus e-420 is about the same size as the G1. I think the e-420 DOES deliver on the promise of a cheap ,fully featured and SMALL DSLR.

OMG!!!! THere is shutter sound on the G1?!?!? THe only reason I would ever consider spending more for a camera like this is because I thought it would be completely silent.

A lemon for sure....
Logged

Er1kksen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 154
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2008, 08:55:34 pm »

Quote from: lensfactory
MR didn't bother to mention that the Olympus e-420 is about the same size as the G1. I think the e-420 DOES deliver on the promise of a cheap ,fully featured and SMALL DSLR.

OMG!!!! THere is shutter sound on the G1?!?!? THe only reason I would ever consider spending more for a camera like this is because I thought it would be completely silent.

A lemon for sure....

The thing to note, Lensfactory, is how small the lenses are by comparison to the E-420's kit lenses. And consider that they're stabilized... so to match that you have to upgrade to the E-520, which is quite definitely larger than the G1.

A lemon for sure? Because it's only a little smaller than the current smallest product and it produces an audible, though quiet, shutter noise? Kind of quick to pass judgement there, one would think...
Logged

lensfactory

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2008, 10:24:14 pm »

Quote from: Er1kksen
The thing to note, Lensfactory, is how small the lenses are by comparison to the E-420's kit lenses. And consider that they're stabilized... so to match that you have to upgrade to the E-520, which is quite definitely larger than the G1.

A lemon for sure? Because it's only a little smaller than the current smallest product and it produces an audible, though quiet, shutter noise? Kind of quick to pass judgement there, one would think...

Well...not the pancake lens, but anyway...
The whole point of a camera like this is to offer something MORE than a DSLR..in my opinion. Not quick to judge....just making a judgement. Let's see in a year if my judgement holds up. Bet it will.

I just think it's sad that this doesn't have a silent shutter for doing film stills work. That would be one of the few places a camera like this would serve much of a use.

I do like the articulated LCD...frankly ALL cameras should have that. Buying more lenses, for a marginally smaller camera seems like a marginal improvement in technology....so whoopity-do.
Logged

dalethorn

  • Guest
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2008, 05:50:09 am »

Quote from: lensfactory
MR didn't bother to mention that the Olympus e-420 is about the same size as the G1. I think the e-420 DOES deliver on the promise of a cheap ,fully featured and SMALL DSLR.

OMG!!!! THere is shutter sound on the G1?!?!? THe only reason I would ever consider spending more for a camera like this is because I thought it would be completely silent.

A lemon for sure....
Blah blah blah. DSLR's are still dying. Not dead yet, but you can hear the death rattle. Very similar to the "instant return mirror" clatter. Yes, wheels are still used on buggies.
Logged

Er1kksen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 154
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2008, 11:01:43 am »

Quote from: lensfactory
Well...not the pancake lens, but anyway...

Well, seeing as there's a 20mm f1.7 coming out for m43 in 2009 that's not only smaller but faster than the current pancake...

Quote from: lensfactory
I just think it's sad that this doesn't have a silent shutter for doing film stills work. That would be one of the few places a camera like this would serve much of a use.

...one of the few places besides 90% of the other applications for which one might use a similarly-priced DSLR, that is...
Logged

stevejac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2008, 02:35:24 pm »

Quote from: lensfactory
Yes it can do a few things that an optical viewfinder can't, but the image is just so inferior.Oh I'm sure your right that it will one day be there....but not yet. Maybe in about ten years. I'm talking about an EVF of high enough quality to replace an optical viewfinder ie. the human eye.

I do wonder if you've actually looked through the G1's EVF. It is extraordinary. It's as big as my 5D's vf and you have to try to get any jerkyness in the flow. (That said I don't think it'd be ideal for sports). It's brighter than any optical vf I've ever used and for the first time I can read the control setting in the vf-- all of them. Not only can you see the various settings but the controls make it easy to modify them w/o taking the camera from your eye. Add to that a live histogram available in the view, and it's the EVF that has sold me on the G1.

It's true that in dim light it gets sort of grainy, but it doesn't get too dim like optical slr finders. I will say that it always looks like you're looking at video and if you can't accept that then any evf in the the foreseeable future won't work for you. However, if you can accept the slightly un-natural look of video it's a world beater.
Logged

DarkPenguin

  • Guest
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2008, 04:52:16 pm »

Quote from: stevejac
However, if you can accept the slightly un-natural look of video it's a world beater.

I agree.

I would have one now but I just can't get myself to pay list.
Logged

bg2b

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
Panasonic G1...is it needed?
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2008, 07:39:40 am »

Quote from: DarkPenguin
I would have one now but I just can't get myself to pay list.
Prodigital2000 on eBay out of Canada is auctioning them (typically going for about US$550).  Or there are various buy-it-now's, some in the US$650 range, and if you're not allergic to Microsoft's live search cashback, you can probably even get another 15-30% off of that.  So if you want one, you can get some pretty good deals if you look around.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up