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Author Topic: Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000  (Read 10595 times)

Tony Beach

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2008, 01:58:40 pm »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
Looks like Canon wins again, and all this from a Nikon guy.

Wins what again?

Thom Hogan primarily earns his living writing guides for Nikon DSLRs.  His reviews are fair and he does not have some sort of pro-Nikon bias that makes his praise of a non-Nikon camera particularly noteworthy.
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JohnKoerner

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2008, 03:05:51 pm »

Quote from: Tony Beach
Wins what again?

By far, the most favorable remarks of the reviewer overall.







Quote from: Tony Beach
Thom Hogan primarily earns his living writing guides for Nikon DSLRs.  His reviews are fair and he does not have some sort of pro-Nikon bias that makes his praise of a non-Nikon camera particularly noteworthy.

I agree, and that's what I in fact found so noteworthy of the review.






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Tony Beach

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2008, 03:41:01 pm »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
By far, the most favorable remarks of the reviewer overall.

Again?  Another review in favor of the G10?  If so, then the problem is you weren't specific and it looks more like a general "Canon wins again."

Quote
I agree, and that's what I in fact found so noteworthy of the review.

What is the relevance of his being "a Nikon guy?"  I think some of us would assume you are implying some kind of bias from Thom against Canon.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 03:44:02 pm by Tony Beach »
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JohnKoerner

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2008, 05:53:31 pm »

Quote from: Tony Beach
Again?  Another review in favor of the G10?  If so, then the problem is you weren't specific and it looks more like a general "Canon wins again."

Tony, I don't see how my comments affect you. The only "problem" is the one you are trying so hard to create, by policing my posts, as if you are in some sort of authority here. I can be as specific, or as general, as I so choose. I merely quoted the man's words and expressed what I have seen as a resounding enthusiasm for the G10, even over the G9. I remember when the G7 came out, most people thought it stunk and wasn't even as good as the G6 (because of RAW). The G9 came out and most people were happy, but a few still grumbled. The Canon G10 might appropriately be called the "G-Spot" (  ) as it appears to be the most lauded P&S by professional standards that I personally have read about.




Quote from: Tony Beach
What is the relevance of his being "a Nikon guy?" I think some of us would assume you are implying some kind of bias from Thom against Canon.

Geeze, your a sensitive fella, aren't you? I am implying exactly that. Thom expresses his very clear "bias" for Nikon by writing for them, about them, and by his having tens of thousands of dollars of his own money invested into their equipment. The fact that he is so clearly biased (meaning is so clearly sold on Nikon), and yet that he makes such statements about the new G10, just strikes me as much more credible testimony to the quality of the camera than if some 40-year Canon employee said so.

I don't see what is so hard to follow here. I don't see why you are making such a big deal over what I said.

Perhaps a glass of beer and some mellow music will help you relax  

Have a nice evening,

Jack




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Tony Beach

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2008, 06:13:38 pm »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
Tony, I don't see how my comments affect you. The only "problem" is the one you are trying so hard to create, by policing my posts, as if you are in some sort of authority here. I can be as specific, or as general, as I so choose.  I merely quoted the man's words and expressed what I have seen as a resounding enthusiasm for the G10, even over the G9

Initially I ignored your remarks, but since you seem to be dissembling them I decided to respond.

Quote
. I remember when the G7 came out, most people thought it stunk and wasn't even as good as the G6 (because of RAW). The G9 came out and most people were happy, but a few still grumbled. The Canon G10 might appropriately be called the "G-Spot" (  ) as it appears to be the most lauded P&S by professional standards that I personally have read about.

So much for "again" then.

Quote
I am implying exactly that [Thom Hogan is biased against Canon].

You have demonstrated how little you really know about Thom Hogan, and about what it means to be biased or not biased.

Enjoy your beer; I prefer to stay sober.
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DarkPenguin

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JohnKoerner

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2008, 06:31:48 pm »

Quote from: Tony Beach
Initially I ignored your remarks, but since you seem to be dissembling them I decided to respond.

You ignored my remarks? LOL, what did my remarks ever have to do with you?

You are insane. You labor under the self-invented idea that my remarks had anything whatsoever to do with you, or that "you" are in any way a governor of my remarks.




Quote from: Tony Beach
So much for "again" then.

 

I said the G10.




Quote from: Tony Beach
You have demonstrated how little you really know about Thom Hogan, and about what it means to be biased or not biased.

You clearly have demonstrated your own boundary disorder.

There are actually many levels of bias, from personal preference to having an unfair bias, and I was only implying the former. The simple fact is, any man who makes a purchase decision expresses some form of bias in so doing, does he not? Therefore it is you who fails to understand the meaning of the word.




Quote from: Tony Beach
Enjoy your beer; I prefer to stay sober.

I myself would prefer if you would stay silent  

Jack




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Tony Beach

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2008, 07:47:58 pm »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
You are insane.

I said the G10.

You clearly have demonstrated your own boundary disorder.

There are actually many levels of bias, from personal preference to having an unfair bias, and I was only implying the former. The simple fact is, any man who makes a purchase decision expresses some form of bias in so doing, does he not? Therefore it is you who fails to understand the meaning of the word.

Right.  Thom Hogan has a bias for Canon then since he buys lots of Canon gear and currently chooses to use the G10 along with the LX3.  Fact is that Thom finds these P&S cameras compromises and has argued for some time now for something better, and he (as well as many of us) do not care a whit what brand it is.  Now you did not write the G10 in your initial post, you wrote Canon, that's what makes many of us question why you would write that.  Anyway, usually the person who starts a debate should let those that reply to it have the last word as that is a fair approach (equal time as it were), but by now everyone should realizes that you can never let anyone have the last word -- prove me wrong if you are capable; if not, then I will demonstrate (once again) that I can live with your compulsion to post the last word.
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BernardLanguillier

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2008, 07:52:29 pm »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
???

I am not sure I follow. The brand of camera is relevant for identification. Same as the model #.

The point is that your "Canon wins again" sentence re-inforces your image as a person who is interested in engaging in an activity often referred to as "fanboyism".

Most folks around here are more interested in creating photographs and less about discussing what brand is better than the other. Notice that I am not saying that people are not interested in discussing what camera is best for a given task.

Put it in other words:

Using your terminology, I - "a Nikon guy" has bought a "Canon G10" from the "company that wins again".
My view on the situation is more, I - "a photographer looking for suitable tools who happens to own Nikon cameras and like some of their attributes" has bought a "Canon G10" from "another company making tools for photographers".

Last comment from me on this.

Cheers,
Bernard

JohnKoerner

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2008, 10:33:09 pm »

Quote from: Tony Beach
Right.  Thom Hogan has a bias for Canon then since he buys lots of Canon gear and currently chooses to use the G10 along with the LX3.  Fact is that Thom finds these P&S cameras compromises and has argued for some time now for something better, and he (as well as many of us) do not care a whit what brand it is.

What does this have to do with the subject of the thread? The reality is, I care not one whit for "your opinion," nor did I solicit one from you. Honestly Tony, I notice that in virtually every post you make, you act like you are some kind of "praise patrol" for Canon (especially), and that you are always attempting to throw a bucket of water on any growing fires




Quote from: Tony Beach
Now you did not write the G10 in your initial post, you wrote Canon, that's what makes many of us question why you would write that.

I do believe the real question is, "Why do you care so much?" Have you ever asked yourself this question? Have you sought psychiatric counsel for this problem of yours, this boundary disorder, whereby you feel the need to control what other people think, feel, and write?




Quote from: Tony Beach
Anyway, usually the person who starts a debate should let those that reply to it have the last word as that is a fair approach (equal time as it were), but by now everyone should realizes that you can never let anyone have the last word -- prove me wrong if you are capable; if not, then I will demonstrate (once again) that I can live with your compulsion to post the last word.

Well, let's see if you can live up to your own words. Because I never "started a debate" with you, Tony, I merely quoted passages from Thom's article and didn't address you (or anyone in particular) at all. It was in point of fact you who sought to debate with me, over something rather silly I might add. So not only do you suffer from a boundary disorder, and a control freak disorder, but you are a hypocrite as well. I guess you think you can launch into me, make several comments, and then tie my hands so I can't respond ... this is truly unbelievable

Are you sure you're a man Tony? If you are, you are a very sensitive one. I really think you need a drink, my friend, as you need to relax and let other people enjoy their own opinions  



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Quote from: BernardLanguillier
The point is that your "Canon wins again" sentence re-inforces your image as a person who is interested in engaging in an activity often referred to as "fanboyism".

Boy, I guess I am a Canon fan Bernard

Since you stepped forward to make a critique of what you "noticed about me," let me return the favor. First, let me say that I have truly enjoyed most of your posts actually, so thank you. You actually seem like a pretty good guy, whereas I think Tony is wayyy too uptight and he either needs to drink a cold one ... or he needs a good left hook to the liver  

Anyway, what I notice is that many of you photo buffs try to put up this facade as if you don't pay attention to (or, God forbid, become partial to) brand names and models. I notice that many of you act like you you are in some sort of elitist, impartial club of holier-than-thous for your impartialism, and yet here you are leading the deck in cutting-n-pasting a brand comparison article. In fact, it seems to me like the sum and substance of most (if not all) of these photographic websites are centered around some sort of brand/model comparativism. Yet, at the same time, each "true pro" tries to act as impartial and "non-fanboyist" as possible, as I take it this is considered to be "uncool" to do

(As a side note, I also notice many of you like to use the word "whilst"  )

Anyway, if we can arrive at a little honesty here, in truth everyone pays attention to brand names and model numbers, and everyone tends to become a little partial to certain examples of each. I just have the honesty to admit it  

We become partial to almost everything really: baseball teams, football teams, boxers, you name it, and yes that includes camera makes and models ...




Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Most folks around here are more interested in creating photographs and less about discussing what brand is better than the other. Notice that I am not saying that people are not interested in discussing what camera is best for a given task.

There is merit in this. I do believe that clearly stating "which" camera does "what" particular job(s) better than another is critical to help the consumer decide which camera is best for his own unique, personal needs.




Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Put it in other words:
Using your terminology, I - "a Nikon guy" has bought a "Canon G10" from the "company that wins again".
My view on the situation is more, I - "a photographer looking for suitable tools who happens to own Nikon cameras and like some of their attributes" has bought a "Canon G10" from "another company making tools for photographers".
Last comment from me on this.
Cheers,
Bernard

Like I said, I understand this is the facade. The professional must apear before his peers as if he is trying to emotionally distance himself from being excited about a new product. I understand that the general consensus is that such "lowly behavior" might be interpreted by one's peers as (heaven forbid) the dreaded "fanboyism," which is a label to be avoided at all costs  

But you see, I am not a professional, I am just a guy who is interested in cameras ... so I am not ashamed to get excited that a new camera looks to be something pretty neat. I know it's not cool and all, and I know all you pros have to hide your emotions in front of each other, LOL, but (to me) that is the funniest thing of all ... this facade yall wear ... when truly, everyone gets excited when new and improved models come out. That's the whole fun of the new year.

So relax, Bernard, and enjoy --- as no harm and no foul were meant --- just having fun is all  

Try it sometime, and have a nice night,

Jack




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« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 10:58:37 pm by JohnKoerner »
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NigelC

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2008, 04:52:47 am »

"Canon guy", "Nikon guy" ! Oh please, they are manufacturers, not football clubs!  Me, I'm a "whoever gives me the best deal guy".
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dalethorn

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2008, 08:28:22 pm »

For my two cents, I should feel elation at having another 500 - 1000 dollars to spend on a shiny new camera, expecting great new photos with incredible detail, vibrant colors, etc. etc.  Unfortunately, I generally feel real dread at that point, depending on the review(s) I'm depending on.

OTOH, if I had the patience to wait 5 or 6 months after the gizmo is generally available, I would have a better sense of its actual potential as a photographic device, given the user reviews that stack up during that time.  But today, if you wait that long, there's really nothing to discuss by the time you get the new camera.  Instead of What You See Is What You Get, it's What You Asked For Is What You Got.
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JohnKoerner

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2008, 03:35:44 am »

Quote from: NigelC
"Canon guy", "Nikon guy" ! Oh please, they are manufacturers, not football clubs!  Me, I'm a "whoever gives me the best deal guy".


And your point is?

Do you not think there is such a thing as "fans" or "enthusiasts" of manufacturers and their products too?

I guess you never heard a person say, "I'm a Chevy man and would never buy a Ford," or vise versa, then right? The simple fact is, there are devoted enthusiasts/antagonists of the auto manufacturers Chevy, Ford, and Dodge every bit as much as there are about Nikon, Canon, and Pentax

And it works the same way with the foreign auto manufacturers Nissan/Toyota as well as their upscale Infinity/Lexus dress-ups ... there are enthusiasts/antagonists of each of these too

And lest we delude ourselves into thinking the affluent and wealthy are not affected, take a moment to realize that you have equally-fervent enthusiasts/antagonists of BMW/Mercedes as well as Ferrari/Lamborghini/Maserati, etc., etc.  

This is why I get such a hearty chuckle out of the term "fanboy" that is tossed around here by the austere members of this forum ... where these members actually delude themselves to believe that what is perfectly natural (to be enthusiastically-partial to certain products) is something "incorrect" to think or believe. In fact, perhaps the biggest fanboy of this forum is a Nikon enthusiast, we all know and love (LOL), who even uses the word "fanboy" alot, all the while remaining blithely unaware that he himself is our forum's greatest fanboy of his brand of choice

It is a literal crock of $#!^ for anyone to act as if he is not partial to certain brands, and to me the biggest joke of all is the self-denial of this fact that some people try to pass-off. The idea that any person passionately-interested in taking photographs would somehow be "impartial" or dispassionate toward the very tools of his trade is simply laughable. As if one's "photgraphic tools" were merely hammers or saws. (Oops! But, here again, we even have diehard fans of DeWalt power tools, Makita powertools, etc.  ) Let us not act as if the man who just bought a brand new convertible Porsche just bought himself "a tool" ... to go from Point A to Point B ... when we all know that he is very much looking to enjoy the ride. Let us not delude ourselves into thinking "any" tool will do, when we're talking top of the line in their class. Top brand names will always matter, and the most revered model numbers will always matter.

In short, please, let's cut the BS okay? Let us not pretend like anyone here is "dispassionate" about the brand new cameras that are coming out by our industry's top manufacturers, because the simple fact is everyone is keenly interested in them and in seeing what they can do.

Now, with that said, maybe we can get back to the subject at hand ... the new P&S cameras and their performance comparisons ... without this everyone trying to wear this big facade like it's uncool to be geeked-up and interested in which brand is offering the best or most versatile model for their needs.

It's okay to be exited about who's making the best new toys children ... even if you're old, highly-educated children ... it's still okay to be excited about new toys and to have fun using them  

Jack




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« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 03:53:36 am by JohnKoerner »
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NigelC

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Thom looking at high end compacts: G10, LX3, P6000
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2008, 06:15:28 am »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
And your point is?

Do you not think there is such a thing as "fans" or "enthusiasts" of manufacturers and their products too?

I guess you never heard a person say, "I'm a Chevy man and would never buy a Ford," or vise versa, then right? The simple fact is, there are devoted enthusiasts/antagonists of the auto manufacturers Chevy, Ford, and Dodge every bit as much as there are about Nikon, Canon, and Pentax

And it works the same way with the foreign auto manufacturers Nissan/Toyota as well as their upscale Infinity/Lexus dress-ups ... there are enthusiasts/antagonists of each of these too

And lest we delude ourselves into thinking the affluent and wealthy are not affected, take a moment to realize that you have equally-fervent enthusiasts/antagonists of BMW/Mercedes as well as Ferrari/Lamborghini/Maserati, etc., etc.  

This is why I get such a hearty chuckle out of the term "fanboy" that is tossed around here by the austere members of this forum ... where these members actually delude themselves to believe that what is perfectly natural (to be enthusiastically-partial to certain products) is something "incorrect" to think or believe. In fact, perhaps the biggest fanboy of this forum is a Nikon enthusiast, we all know and love (LOL), who even uses the word "fanboy" alot, all the while remaining blithely unaware that he himself is our forum's greatest fanboy of his brand of choice

It is a literal crock of $#!^ for anyone to act as if he is not partial to certain brands, and to me the biggest joke of all is the self-denial of this fact that some people try to pass-off. The idea that any person passionately-interested in taking photographs would somehow be "impartial" or dispassionate toward the very tools of his trade is simply laughable. As if one's "photgraphic tools" were merely hammers or saws. (Oops! But, here again, we even have diehard fans of DeWalt power tools, Makita powertools, etc.  ) Let us not act as if the man who just bought a brand new convertible Porsche just bought himself "a tool" ... to go from Point A to Point B ... when we all know that he is very much looking to enjoy the ride. Let us not delude ourselves into thinking "any" tool will do, when we're talking top of the line in their class. Top brand names will always matter, and the most revered model numbers will always matter.

In short, please, let's cut the BS okay? Let us not pretend like anyone here is "dispassionate" about the brand new cameras that are coming out by our industry's top manufacturers, because the simple fact is everyone is keenly interested in them and in seeing what they can do.

Now, with that said, maybe we can get back to the subject at hand ... the new P&S cameras and their performance comparisons ... without this everyone trying to wear this big facade like it's uncool to be geeked-up and interested in which brand is offering the best or most versatile model for their needs.

It's okay to be exited about who's making the best new toys children ... even if you're old, highly-educated children ... it's still okay to be excited about new toys and to have fun using them  

Jack


Yawn

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