Lumix G1 is not a DSLR

[NikosR]

Quoting from Michael's comment on the Lumix G1 in his Photokina review:

'I'll look forward to seeing how this works in practice and also whether the consumer marketplace is ready for a hybrid of this sort – an interchangable lens DSLR with an electronic viewfinder. '

I might be pedantic but the Lumix G1 is not a DSLR as it is a digital single lens camera but it is not reflex (i.e. it does not contain a mirror) in the same way that the Leica M8 rangefinder isn't a DSLR either.

This might be nit picking for some but I think that since the lack of a mirror is one of the significant attributes of this camera calling it a DSLR sounds strange.

EVIL (electronic viewfinder interchangable lens) camera is an acronym that has been used widely and I believe correctly describes and differentiates this type of cameras, although, it must be said, there's nothing evil about the particular camera.

[michael]

I have no problem calling it a DSLR. Reflex usually means "through the lens viewing", and this it provides.

In any event, words mean what we all agree that they mean. If DSLR is what ends up being used by people then that's what it will be. If not, then they'll be EVIL.

Michael

[NikosR]

I have no problem calling it a DSLR. Reflex usually means "through the lens viewing", and this it provides.

In any event, words mean what we all agree that they mean. If DSLR is what ends up being used by people then that's what it will be. If not, then they'll be EVIL.

Michael
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I agree with you on both above counts (although reflex strictly assumes a mirror for the light to reflect from), but still you need something to differentiate the cameras and calling it an electronic viewfinder DSLR (EVDSLR) does not sound practical to me

[Anders_HK]

Hm...

It makes sense discussing what is a DSLR!

Propably marketing departmens will call their product whatever sells it best... but...

1. If the G1 is a DSLR, then is the DP1 also a DSLR?

2. Or this concept of micro four third camera also a DSLR?
http://www.photographion.com/micro-thirds-...ra-body-photos/

Or... what makes specifically this concept different from the G1??? Or that the DP1 cannot be called DSLR when the G1 can...?  

3. What about Mamiya AFD with digital back, it hardly look in shape of Nikon, Canon or Leica S2?... and if that is not a DSLR... is the ZD camera?

Much respect to both prior posters... but... what is honest appropriate to label as a DSLR?  

Regards  
Anders

[NikosR]

Hm...

It makes sense discussing what is a DSLR!

Propably marketing departmens will call their product whatever sells it best... but...

1. If the G1 is a DSLR, then is the DP1 also a DSLR?

2. Or this concept of micro four third camera also a DSLR?
http://www.photographion.com/micro-thirds-...ra-body-photos/

Or... what makes specifically this concept different from the G1??? Or that the DP1 cannot be called DSLR when the G1 can...?   

3. What about Mamiya AFD with digital back, it hardly look in shape of Nikon, Canon or Leica S2?... and if that is not a DSLR... is the ZD camera?

Much respect to both prior posters... but... what is honest appropriate to label as a DSLR?   

Regards   
Anders
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For me it is quite clear, although my view might be a little old fashioned. Any camera with a reflex mirror is an SLR and digital ones are DSLR's. That includes cameras of all formats i.e. APS-C, 24x36, 'MF' and any future smaller or larger format camera.

I think this distinction is enough and allows for DSLRs to be obsoleted by EVILs if and when the reflex mirror is completely substituted by an electronic viewfinder.

I think that this definition is not foolproof but is much more robust than Michael's which allows for any P&S camera to be called DSLR since they use through the lens viewing (either with an EVF or an LCD) as well as many view cameras.

[Anders_HK]

For me it is quite clear, although my view might be a little old fashioned. Any camera with a reflex mirror is an SLR and digital ones are DSLR's. That includes cameras of all formats i.e. APS-C, 24x36, 'MF' and any future smaller or larger format camera.

I think this distinction is enough and allows for DSLRs to be obsoleted by EVILs if and when the reflex mirror is completely substituted by an electronic viewfinder.

I think that this definition is not foolproof but is much more robust than Michael's which allows for any P&S camera to be called DSLR since they use through the lens viewing (either with an EVF or an LCD) as well as many view cameras.
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Perhaps analogy could be made to...

(Single) Reflex camera (SLR & DSLR) - also waist finders?

Rangefinder camera

Viewcamera


thus... perhaps ...

Electronic viewfinder camera

Electronic TTL camera


Regards
Anders

[barryfitzgerald]

Single lens Reflex

"a camera having a single lens that forms an image which is reflected to the viewfinder or recorded on film/sensor"

Thus the key point is "reflex" or "reflection". This is not done with a camera that has no mirror. So you cannot honestly call the new types of camera, SLR's, or DSLR's.

[mahleu]

Single lens Reflex

"a camera having a single lens that forms an image which is reflected to the viewfinder or recorded on film/sensor"

Thus the key point is "reflex" or "reflection". This is not done with a camera that has no mirror. So you cannot honestly call the new types of camera, SLR's, or DSLR's.
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With a TLR the mirror has nothing to do with the lens that's taking the photo.

[Rusty]

EVIL will just not make the cut with the marketing folks. Turn that around and call it a LIVE view viewfinder or just plain EVF as it is often referred to and that will stick.
They will likely spell out the Interchangeable Lens feature, call it IC Lens or whatever, but EVIL will be relegated to the fan forum ghettos.

In any event I am pleased to see that the potential of the digital paradigm is beginning to be implemented with real product that plows new ground.

[NikosR]

With a TLR the mirror has nothing to do with the lens that's taking the photo.
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And your point is?

[barryfitzgerald]

And your point is?
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I think he has failed to grasp what the meaning of SLR is. No mirror, it is NOT a reflex.

[dalethorn]

I think he has failed to grasp what the meaning of SLR is. No mirror, it is NOT a reflex.
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I'm surprised that a giant like Panasonic has failed to allocate a few Yen in a contest to name this development in a new acronym.  Or did we just miss that?

[Gordon Buck]

The Contax G is not a rangefinder.

(Just wanting to keep the pot stirred.)

[DarkPenguin]

Well if DSLR stands for Delightfully Small Little Rascal then the G1 certainly qualifies.

[BJL]

EVIL will just not make the cut with the marketing folks. Turn that around and call it a LIVE view viewfinder or just plain EVF as it is often referred to and that will stick.
They will likely spell out the Interchangeable Lens feature, call it IC Lens or whatever, but EVIL will be relegated to the fan forum ghettos.
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Though I am a longtime fan of the name EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lenses, coined by "cetaphalus" in the DPReview forums), and I long ago proposed LIVE (a more contorted acronym using the same words), I agree that it will never be the official name. Panasonic seems to be pushing "full time Live View camera", but pedantically, that fits any compact too.

How about ILC: Interchangeable Lens Compact,
as it emphasises the virtues: inerchangeable lenses, but smaller and lighter (hopefully) than an SLR.

And you can say "ILC" as a word, as in "Micro Four Thirds and other cameras of that ILC".


P. S. I am surprised that in Michael's note on Micro 4/3 and the G1, that he fails to mention the prototype of an HD body and HD 14-140 lens: "HD" referring to HD video capability and a lens specifically designed to work well in video mode (power zoom? adapted to video style continuous AF operation?). And Panasonic does promise AF in its HD video mode.

So one more vote for "convergence".  I also like Michael's phrase of film-think, and am always happy to see companies gambling on new product ideas that break out of it.

[Anders_HK]

Panasonic seems to be pushing "full time Live View camera", but pedantically, that fits any compact too.
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Ehh... [a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera[/url]

 

[runee]

Ehh... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera

 
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Isn't that just a matter of how you couple the words?
"full time Live View camera" vs. "full time Live View camera" I guess the former is what is meant above..

[kaelaria]

NOT a SLR.  It's simply an interchangeable lens point and shoot.

[Moynihan]

The use of the word "reflex" with a camera, appears in essentially two types.
Single Lens Reflex and Twin Lens Reflex
(Since DSLR is simply a SLR with an analog sensor/digital coverter assembly, I will only herein refer to SLR).

Note, that in both of the above, the differentiation is as to the number of lenses.

SLR a single lense w/ a "Reflex", with a moving mirror and a housing of more mirrors, or a prism, for viewing through the single lense.

TLR twin lenses, w/ a "Reflex" , comprised of one mirror, for viewing through one of the lenses.

An EVF has neither a mirror (moving nor stationary), nor a secondary prism or mirror housing.

Viewing through a lense does not a "reflex" camera make, otherwise a view camera would be a "reflex" camera.

It appears a Reflex camera refers to the image being reflected to the eye, not viewed "directly".

I would suggest, that a camera that does not use a mirror or prism to reflect the image to the viewer, is not a "reflex" camera.

[Moynihan]

I should add though that using a phrase or word in a technically wrong way, often lives on, as things change. So that might happen with the concept of a "reflex" camera.
I would assume, that when digital someday replaces film in cinema, many will still say "movie" or "film".