Are we going into another depression?

[Craig Lamson]

It's a very dangerous game to believe what you read in the papers. Especially in the 'Daily Torygraph'.

Ol' GW has left a fine legacy for us all to sort out.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes it is a very dangerous game, and that was the poin tof my poist. I've been following this quite cloesly for the last two years, and I'm not going to be fooled by folks doing some quick web research in a vain attempt to score some points.  

If you or anyone want to believe this is the handiwork of GWB, fine, but if you do it is at your peril, because that is really a short sighted and biased position and not supported by the facts.

We can argue this until the cows come home but I don't think any positions will be changed.

[Streetshooter]

Yes it is a very dangerous game, and that was the poin tof my poist. I've been following this quite cloesly for the last two years, and I'm not going to be fooled by folks doing some quick web research in a vain attempt to score some points.   

If you or anyone want to believe this is the handiwork of GWB, fine, but if you do it is at your peril, because that is really a short sighted and biased position and not supported by the facts.

We can argue this until the cows come home but I don't think any positions will be changed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223312\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not arguing with anybody. It's just I don't believe what I read in most newspapers.

When the ship goes down it's always the Captain who gets the blame. After all he's the one in charge, or should be anyway.

[Lust4Life]

If you take 11.3 trillion and divide by the current total pop. of the USA the debt per man, woman, child is just over $36,000 dollars.

Now that is not a realistic number as it should be divided by the number of TAXPAYERS!!
For tax year 2005, 134,372,678 individual tax returns were filed. Of those filed, 99,880,223 actually had a tax liability and actually paid taxes.

Thus, the debt load per taxpayer who is actually paying taxes is:
$113,135,510.00 per tax payer!

Now, and we must plug in somewheret the cost of the "credit card crisis" that has not been dealt with yet.

[fuzzyfoto]

all i could say is that all my equipment "dreams" will be put on hold. i will only purchase what i absolutely need. i don't care if another higher resolution digital back comes to market. i will make the best with the equipment i have. we are headed for difficult times. if you think otherwise, you're in denial.

[dalethorn]

I was telling a congresswoman yesterday "If this turns out to be a disaster, at least we can be satisfied that it's our people running it."  And Americans love their homeboy GWB.  But seriously, the big picture isn't that complicated.  We just had an overdue adjustment of $700 bn that's been carried on the books too long.  The first jolt in the quake is usually the biggest - now just make sure you're not sitting in a liquefaction zone, so to speak.

[Jonathan Wienke]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=new...id=aSKSoiNbnQY0

[Jonathan H]

The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!

There's only one thing to do.... diversify and keep on working.  Just keep on working.  Hustle harder, fight for those clients, scale back "entertainment" like nights out at the bar (totally pointless really - it makes me sick to think how often I used to go out and run up a $150 tab - I'm no rockstar!), cook meals at home, and keep on working.

I'm as concerned as anybody, so I'm learning to make do with what I have, and learning to be as frugal as possible.

I'm one of the lucky ones.... cheap rent, no overhead, and no debt (other than my student loans at $200/month).  I can honestly get by on $1200/month.

[Craig Lamson]

"(Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He is an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election. The opinions expressed are his own.)"
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

self deleted

[Moynihan]

"Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out."

 A line of the character Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus, in "I Claudius", a 1976 BBC Television adaptation of Robert Graves's "I, Claudius" and "Claudius the God."

Context:
“I have decided Nero should follow me so that one day the empire will revert back to the Republic, that is to some form of representative government. I have been too good an emperor, too fair and too honest. I will give Rome Nero and when he is done with Rome, Rome will be done with emperors altogether. It will be bad,
exceedingly bad…worse even than Caligula but they have to have the whole
terrible truth about just how bad it can be before they come to their senses. Let
all of the poisons that lurk in the mud, hatch out.”

[dalethorn]

The lawmakers are about to grant generous new powers to the executive branch.  Do we see a pattern here?

[BFoto]

Yes it is a very dangerous game, and that was the poin tof my poist. I've been following this quite cloesly for the last two years, and I'm not going to be fooled by folks doing some quick web research in a vain attempt to score some points.   


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223312\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This has nothing to score points fool.

Your link to "America coming to save the day" is actually still not in fact ...in place.

So, do your own research mate.

Currently your govt is debating the crisis measures as outlined by Hank Paulson. What seems to have everyone spooked is that the bill does not allow any oversight as too where he is going to spend the money. And, yes, he will be the one spending it....on the worst financial assets one could ever buy.

Here is a quant summary of what your govt is trying to do...

"Their policies manifested as a radical extension of government control over the economy without wholesale expropriation of the means of production"

now to more broadly define it....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

[Ray]

There's a lot of blame for this financial crisis being directed at government policies and the lax financial regulations which allowed billions of dollars to be loaned to people who, in retrospect, were clearly not in a position to repay such loans.

The question has to be asked, 'Why does there appear to be so many Americans who seem to be so incapable of managing their own financial affairs?'.

I certainly don't need a financial institution to tell me whether or not I'm likely to be capable of repaying a loan. I can work it out for myself.

If you are going to criticise the rich executives and financial institutions for being greedy, you should also criticise those individuals who took out 100% loans on property without sufficient collateral and perhaps with little hope by all reasonable standards of ever repaying such loans for whatever reason.

If we do go into a deep depression on the scale of the 1929 crash, photographers should be in a better position than most. You don't need money to buy film.   It doesn't cost you anything to press the shutter and take the shot, except for the small cost of electricity to run the computer during processing of the image.

[Craig Lamson]

This has nothing to score points fool.

Your link to "America coming to save the day" is actually still not in fact ...in place.

So, do your own research mate.

Currently your govt is debating the crisis measures as outlined by Hank Paulson. What seems to have everyone spooked is that the bill does not allow any oversight as too where he is going to spend the money. And, yes, he will be the one spending it....on the worst financial assets one could ever buy.

Here is a quant summary of what your govt is trying to do...

"Their policies manifested as a radical extension of government control over the economy without wholesale expropriation of the means of production"

now to more broadly define it....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It was ALL about scoring points on your part "mate".  That and being a US basher.  I've no problem with that, I'm a big boy.  

My research in the matter is just fine, in fact I'm living it.  You on the other hand...well lets just leave it here....fool

[michael]

This thread is interesting, so I'll let it run. But please. no more personal insults!

I have also moved it to the Coffee Corner, where it belongs.

Michael

[BernardLanguillier]

Isn'it ironic that while the crisis is in fact mostly the result of people being unable to control their purchasing desires, the outcome most of us hope for is a renewed confidence in the economy that will... enable people to purchase things they still cannot afford...

Cheers,
Bernard

[Dansk]

The point of concern is being overshadowed here by squabbling on he said she said nonsense. There are no guarantees any which way how anything will play out so as matter of factly as some of us are trying to be it is mere opinion at this point and clearly we can see there are valid positions for both sides of the case based on some outside references who are doing what? Trying to be heard and sell their info and grow their careers etc etc etc. I hope that makes some sense. Everyone is trying to be the next Michael Moore these days and make a massive amount of money by exploiting fear.

 The government bailout is not ideal clearly they would have rather avoided it and in fact did pretty much exactly that allowing cries of "disaster" and "we need funds" to fall on deaf ears until Lehman filed for chapter 11 and the cat and mouse game became a bit too real. So what are they supposed to do? Watch the rest of their country fail apart or try something to cushion the blow?

  Bad debt aside from bailing out mortgages in your own nation I'd take that debt load in an INSTANT over trying to cover the TRILLIONS of dollars lost in a pointless outside conflict that will never be returned. This 600 billion bailout is a drop in the bucket for the feds in comparison to other expenses that dont have such a pretty ending. At least the debt bailout is a one time thing and the policy writers are drafting new rules as we speak to prevent getting bitten from the same snake next time around.

  Another major point to consider here is allllllll that monely and allllllll that profit made from all those bad mortgages is where? Its right in the pockets of the filthy rich right inside of America itself so it hasnt gone anywhere they just need to spend it now. As I mentioned above for the "savers" of the economy its buy time. At this very moment there are people and companies making moves that will turn them profit of immense proportions over the next ten years.

Another point to consider for the mortgage bailout is the multiplier effect a top down currency injection creates. So long as the inflation stays manageable its in the US govt's best interest to inject as much currency as the market can handle right now.

They are not so dumb as some would like to think but at the end of the day it is up to the consumers to keep spending. If no one buys the entire thing falls to pieces.


Ahhh the invisible hand


 

[hankg]

We are in the early stages of unwinding the biggest credit bubble in history. The Investment houses that ruled Wall Street and seemed like the masters of the universe a year ago are all gone and Wall Streets old business model is gone with them, next up commercial banks, credit card debt etc., etc.,  The unregulated shadow banking system that grew to a size that dwarfed the world economy is collapsing and choking those looses down while keeping the financial system functioning is gonna hurt.

What impact all this will have no one can predict with precision but in the range of best case to worst case scenarios all of them involve more pain and tougher economic times. There is a reason Paulson and Bernanke are asking for an unprecedented government intervention into the markets. They are crapping in their pants at what might happen if this crisis get's away from them.

You should do the same as every corporation is now doing: prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Cut costs, get rid of debt and accumulate as much cash as possible.

[BFoto]

. Everyone is trying to be the next Michael Moore these days and make a massive amount of money by exploiting fear.

 [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Umm, Michael Moore exploiting fear.....now i have heard it all.

You are kidding.

Look no further than your current administration.

Bills passed by a republican lead Congress without debate or concern for the consequences
1. Iraq war - world securty worse
2. Patriot Act - freedom...mmmmm

And if he has his way.
3. $700billion for an ex-GS CEO to spend at his discretion with no possible oversight or repercusion should he fuck it up

[Dansk]

Umm, Michael Moore exploiting fear.....now i have heard it all.

You are kidding.

Look no further than your current administration.

Bills passed by a republican lead Congress without debate or concern for the consequences
1. Iraq war - world securty worse
2. Patriot Act - freedom...mmmmm

And if he has his way.
3. $700billion for an ex-GS CEO to spend at his discretion with no possible oversight or repercusion should he fuck it up
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224048\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No I'm not kidding. I never said Michael Moore was exploiting fear I said everyone else is trying to be the next Michael Moore by exploiting fear.

Also its not "my current administration" either just my current opinion

As for points 1+2? Yeah true I agree It sucks. As for the $700 billion "no strings attached bailout"? Read todays news there has been no funds transferred yet and for good reason.

[bcooter]

Lets do some reading together...

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm with you.  America needs to cut costs.  the first cut should be military spending, with our involvement in NATO being the first, lets say to zero.  

[a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2007_top_10_countries_by_military_expenditure_MER.svg]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2007_to...nditure_MER.svg[/url]

if you think european taxes are heavy now, wait until europe has to defend itself.

http://www.forbes.com/2000/11/02/1102atg.html

and you can bash all the american ceo's and corporations you want  but america and japan pays the world's highest corporate tax rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CIT_in_..._Barry_Kent.png

i'm sure wallstreet would love to see a 25% slash in taxes.  it would go a long way to funding the financial mess everyone is in.  if coporate america had that 25% savings for the last three decades maybe lehman bros. would still be around.

just don't call the white house when you see a russian tank in your neighborhood.