Canon 50D @ 15MP, will there be another 5D?

[peegeenyc]

3. Imagine how Phase P45+ owners feel? They dropped probably close to 30k-40k [depending on the country they bought it in] on their 39 MP back only to see phase announce a 60 MP back within 24 months! Thats progress I am afraid.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220492\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

well I respectfully would disagree with that-

The P45+ is carrying on in the Phase range at the same price as its a mighty good back, and has abilities, like long exposures, that the P65+ doesn't have.

more importantly Phase were selling P45+ at the high 20k's street price in the US, and then raised the P65+ to match euro prices (devalued dollar etc) so that it's now high $30k's final price.  so... someone who bought a P45+ at old price has not lost a huge amount as its still an active product, (indeed the product of choice for anyone using long exposures) and is now $12,000 or so cheaper than the P65+, and thats a decent sum to pay off your mortgage!

[timescapes]

Perhaps this is why Canon is delaying the 5DM2.  They know it will kill off the 1DsM3.

[Christopher]

Perhaps this is why Canon is delaying the 5DM2.  They know it will kill off the 1DsM3.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221067\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

why are people always saying it will kill of the 1DsMk3. Will it take some sales from it  Yes, but the 1DsMk3 will still sale. I mean the D3 sells quite well and there still is a D700.

[BJL]

why are people always saying it will kill of the 1DsMk3. Will it take some sales from it  Yes, but the 1DsMk3 will still sale. I mean the D3 sells quite well and there still is a D700.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I totally agree.
Cameras that use exactly the same "sensors", in the form of 35mm film in 24x36mm format, vary in cost from under $100 to about $2000 or even more. So clearly sensors are far from the whole story of a good SLR's market value. The prices above suggest that there could be room for a roughly $2000 premium for an EOS-1 class body over a more humble model with identical sensor. Nikon has chosen the same number for D700 ($3,000) vs D3 ($5,000).

But maybe the current $5000 gap from 5D/D700/A900 class to 1Ds class will not be sustainable; we can hope for some downward price pressure on the 24x36mm format high end.

[BobDavid]

It all boils down to what you shoot, how you shoot, and where you shoot.

[dwdallam]

why are people always saying it will kill of the 1DsMk3. Will it take some sales from it  Yes, but the 1DsMk3 will still sale. I mean the D3 sells quite well and there still is a D700.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

People say it because it is true. Consider that the only option right now is the 5D, the 1D, or the 1DS3. Remembering the quality and technical acumen of each model, and their concomitant prices, toss in a 5DII at 18MP with the same image quality as was the 5D compared to the 1DS2 and you will have tons of people opting for the 5D2, just like they did when the 5D came out. Remember that it's 3300 not 8000. That's why. Or course you are right that people will still buy the 1DS3, but much less so.

[Ken Bennett]

The 1Ds3 market is inherently limited to people who want or need the professional-level camera. Recall what happened when Canon introduced the 5D: many people suggested that it would kill sales of the 1Ds Mark II, while at the exact same time, others were complaining that the 5D didn't have weather sealing and a robust professional build, etc. To state that they are different cameras is to belabor the obvious, yet it seems that many people don't see that difference.

Recall that Canon sold a ton of 5D bodies, while sales of the 1Ds Mark II remained good. They are two different cameras -- just like the D3 and the D700 -- and those who need the D3 will buy it, regardless of the existence of the D700.

Once a 5D replacement comes out (Now with a Gazillion Megapixels!), Canon will again sell a bunch of them. Will some people choose the 5D Mark Whatever over the 1Ds Mark III? Sure -- but those people by definition don't *need* the features of the Mark III, or they would be buying it instead.

I can't tell anyone what camera to buy. Heck, they all make good pictures these days, so maybe it doesn't really matter.

[Ray]

Once a 5D replacement comes out (Now with a Gazillion Megapixels!), Canon will again sell a bunch of them. Will some people choose the 5D Mark Whatever over the 1Ds Mark III? Sure -- but those people by definition don't *need* the features of the Mark III, or they would be buying it instead.

I can't tell anyone what camera to buy. Heck, they all make good pictures these days, so maybe it doesn't really matter.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221251\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree. Apart from the additional features like better weather sealing and sometimes better autofocussing (the 1 series can autofocus when the maximum aperture is F8, can't it), the 1 series is a generally more robust and durable piece of equipment.

The 5D shutter is good for 100,000 shots. Good enough for the casual shooter or amateur but not necessarily the professional. I think I'm getting close to the 100,000 mark with my 5D. A few months ago, whilst out shooting one day without any back-up camera, the mirror fell off my 5D. Well, that was the end of the day's shooting and it was still early afternoon. The best light was yet to come and I had no camera. For the next few weeks whilst the 5D was being repaired I used my 20D.

A similar principle applies to tools in general. The elctric drill at an amazingly cheap price in Wal-Mart is fine for the handyman who is likely to use the drill just occasionally. But the professional tradesman who uses a drill almost every day of his life would likely not wish to rely upon that cheap Wal-Mart drill.

[dwdallam]

What you have to remember is that my criteria has the 5D weather sealed and at 18MPs. And remember also that the AI Servo autofocus is not the best with the 1D or the 1DS3. They had lots of problems with that and after having a couple of firmware updates gave up on it. It's ok is many situations, but still lacking in others.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_pag...-8740-9068-9357

So let's speculate that the new 5D will  autofocus as well as the 1DS3 and comes in at 18MPs, ISO noise comparable or better than the 1DS3, and weather sealed to beat out hell. I think the 1DS3 at that point would take a big hit. Remember also that the research I've done says the 1DS4 is coming out in February-ish. If that is also true, then the reason is that the 1DS3 would lose it's marketability--otherwise they'd keep selling it. Remember too that the Digic4 is now out. That would put the 5D2 with the new processor. The 5D and the IDS2 had the same processor.

My conclusion is that comparing the sales of the 1DS2 vs the 5D is not at all like comparing the 1DS3 vs the new 5D (given my parameters for that particular camera's update). I also conclude that when the new 5D comes out, if it has my parameters above or very similar parameters, the 1DS4 will come out within six months of the new 5D to offset the slumping 1DS3 sales.

Notes:
Yes, my parameters could be way off and then the 1DS3 has a nice long life after the 5D2 comes out.

[Josh-H]

Remember also that the research I've done says the 1DS4 is coming out in February-ish.

Says who??

[dwdallam]

Says who??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221346\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't save that sort of research. Do a search with 1DS4 and IDS MKIV and see what ya get.

[Josh-H]

I don't save that sort of research. Do a search with 1DS4 and IDS MKIV and see what ya get.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I did - all I got was a bunch of unsubstantiated irresponsible rumor mongering.

Why cant people just enjoy their cameras instead of constantly worrying and fretting about a new model *scratches head*

[dwdallam]

I did - all I got was a bunch of unsubstantiated irresponsible rumor mongering.

Why cant people just enjoy their cameras instead of constantly worrying and fretting about a new model *scratches head*
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well you are right about that, but I was only surmising using assumptions from people like Bob Atkins and other people at that level. But yes, only rumors.

Not only that but why should Canon release anything above the 1DS3 at this point, except a better lower pixel camera to compete with Nikon's latest offering? They could do the 5DII in 15 MP with the same or nearly the ISO noise level as the D3 and Nikon would be sucking hind tit because they would then not have anything to compete with Canon.

[Christopher]

Well you are right about that, but I was only surmising using assumptions from people like Bob Atkins and other people at that level. But yes, only rumors.

Not only that but why should Canon release anything above the 1DS3 at this point, except a better lower pixel camera to compete with Nikon's latest offering? They could do the 5DII in 15 MP with the same or nearly the ISO noise level as the D3 and Nikon would be sucking hind tit because they would then not have anything to compete with Canon.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221689\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, because people are loosing faith in Canon. I'm pretty certain Canon wants to show Nikon and Sony that they are still at the top off the game and this can be done by showing a 5D that kills a A900 in all aspects.

[lovell]

Lets look at history.  When the 5D came out, it bettered the 1DS Mark I.  It bettered the 1DS Mark II except for resolution which is just a tad better with the 1DS Mark II.  I had the 1DS Mark II for nearly a year, then replaced it with 3 5D's for the lower noise of the 5D's and just a small step down in resolution.

So if history repeats it's self, then the replacement to the 5D will provide BETTER IQ then the 1DS Mark III.  This has happened before and I think it will happen again.  And based on that, I guess the 5D replacement will be 16-20 MP, and provide lower noise then the 1DS Mark III, higher ISO's too.

Will the replacement 5D kill 1DS Mark III sales?  YES, justs like the 5D killed 1DS Mark II sales, yes, of course!

Canon is not stupid; they know this, and they are going in resolved to this.  And they prepared for it by introducing the 1DS Mark III BEFORE the 5D replacement in order to get as many Mark III sales as possible before the the 5D is replaced.

The primary things one gets with the 1D series over the non-1D series is features, build, sealing, FPS, dual flash cards, better ergos, and much less often to do with offering better IQ.  This is something that is very hard to accept by owners of 1D series bodies.  I had two 1D Mark II's and one 1DS Mark II and I can easily write this.  The 5D is that freaking good.  Still, I'm looking forward to the 5D replacement and will probably get two of those over a 1DS Mark III.

[lovell]

Well, because people are loosing faith in Canon. I'm pretty certain Canon wants to show Nikon and Sony that they are still at the top off the game and this can be done by showing a 5D that kills a A900 in all aspects.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221706\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The only people "losing faith" in Canon are the gear heads, and the technorati.

The serious photographers know right up front that Canon will meet or beat the competition in time.  

The DSLR market is not sport.  Go watch an NBA game or something ;-)

[Josh-H]

The only people "losing faith" in Canon are the gear heads, and the technorati.

The serious photographers know right up front that Canon will meet or beat the competition in time. 

The DSLR market is not sport.  Go watch an NBA game or something ;-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221807\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well said.

[dwdallam]

Well, because people are loosing faith in Canon. I'm pretty certain Canon wants to show Nikon and Sony that they are still at the top off the game and this can be done by showing a 5D that kills a A900 in all aspects.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221706\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How are they losing faith in Canon? I've never heard such a thing. Canon has the best FF camera in the world.

[Josh-H]

Canon has the best FF camera in the world.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221981\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

AMEN brother.

[dwdallam]

Lets look at history.  When the 5D came out, it bettered the 1DS Mark I.  It bettered the 1DS Mark II except for resolution which is just a tad better with the 1DS Mark II.  I had the 1DS Mark II for nearly a year, then replaced it with 3 5D's for the lower noise of the 5D's and just a small step down in resolution.

So if history repeats it's self, then the replacement to the 5D will provide BETTER IQ then the 1DS Mark III.  This has happened before and I think it will happen again.  And based on that, I guess the 5D replacement will be 16-20 MP, and provide lower noise then the 1DS Mark III, higher ISO's too.

Will the replacement 5D kill 1DS Mark III sales?  YES, justs like the 5D killed 1DS Mark II sales, yes, of course!

Canon is not stupid; they know this, and they are going in resolved to this.  And they prepared for it by introducing the 1DS Mark III BEFORE the 5D replacement in order to get as many Mark III sales as possible before the the 5D is replaced.

The primary things one gets with the 1D series over the non-1D series is features, build, sealing, FPS, dual flash cards, better ergos, and much less often to do with offering better IQ.  This is something that is very hard to accept by owners of 1D series bodies.  I had two 1D Mark II's and one 1DS Mark II and I can easily write this.  The 5D is that freaking good.  Still, I'm looking forward to the 5D replacement and will probably get two of those over a 1DS Mark III.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

21MPs.

From DPR site:

[a href=\"http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091705canon_5dmarkII.asp]http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091705canon_5dmarkII.asp[/url]

Pre-Photokina 2008: After a week or so of teaser ads Canon has finally unveiled the successor to the venerable EOS 5D, the world's first 'compact' full frame digital SLR. The EOS 5D Mark II boasts a new 21MP CMOS sensor, an expanded ISO range of 50-25,600 and a wealth of improvements and new features including full 1080p HD movie recording, live view, 3.0" 920k dot LCD, DIGIC IV processor, increased battery capacity and sensor dust reduction. UPDATE: Body-only prices: US: $ 2,699, EU: € 2,499, UK: £ 2,299.

Since the camera has been announced, this thread should close and another open for discussions around teh new 5D MKII and how it's bad or good or both.

Unsubscribing . . .