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Author Topic: Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images  (Read 21329 times)

tho_mas

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2008, 01:38:45 pm »

Quote
I have always had an issue from day one with the focus on the Canon... I hated it.
Maybe you want to try manual Zeiss lenses on your Canon. Longer adjustment track, better lenses.
(Myself I have not a Canon but know that some people are very happy with this combination with regard to manual focus and IQ... maybe it's worth a try?).
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E_Edwards

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2008, 01:41:25 pm »

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I agree but do not understand how the hell you guys are manually focusing the 1DsMII..
Either you have Eagle eyes or you freakin lucky!.
I can see shit in my Canon Viewfinder and I have a Brightscreen in it...
I guess you guys are talking about in VERY well lit areas and maybe waist up portraits...
Other wise I have a hard time beleiveing either one of you..:+]
SNook
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No problems manual focusing the 1DSMKII. In fact, I used to use it on autofocus mode and the percentage of bad ones was pretty large.  Since I went back to manual focussing, practically every single shot is in focus and I have normal eyesight. But then, like many people here, I was 'brought up" on manual everything.
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Snook

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2008, 01:47:14 pm »

Quote
Maybe you want to try manual Zeiss lenses on your Canon. Longer adjustment track, better lenses.
(Myself I have not a Canon but know that some people are very happy with this combination with regard to manual focus and IQ... maybe it's worth a try?).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I use the CAnon Mainly for Catalogues now and actually prefer using the AF as it is MUCH easier.
I am not shooting Rocket science or something that is going to be in the photography books...:+]
Now I use the RZ and AFDII for my personal stuff.. Actually have got some great stuff with the 80 1.9 manual focus on the AFDII... Sweet lens.
The bummer is they are all stop down lens and that is not easy when working with people like I do.

I am fine with what the Canon is for.. It serves it's purpose.

Why would I want to put a Zeiss lens on a Canon sensor. especially if I have an RZ and AFDII.
I would understand that if I was Canon Only.
Anything that is need with Zeiss manual focus should be shot with my MFDB anyways.
Everything else goes MFDB.
I could see zeiss on the Phase One.. But Canon?

My Bag will be for the next couple of years. P30 P30+ and My 1DsMII and Maybe a DsMIII here son just to round of the Weapons.
I also agree with james on the format of 35mm is just strange? The only pictures I like from it are Horizontal but you cannot crop that much if need on the 1DsMII if you ask me.
If I know they will be using the image Vertical. I will shoot vertical.
Snook


PS.. Although the Focus on the mamiya is restricted to a smal area and slower than Canon. I find it WAY more accurate.
I shot it yesterday for Triumph (lingerie not car) campaign and had a hard time finding a picture Out of Focus
:+}
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 01:51:21 pm by Snook »
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2008, 01:55:36 pm »

Quote
Sorry but I don't see what that has to do with it... That is the back/Camera not me...:+]
Also had problems with the RZIIPROD until I got another Screen...:+}
Snook
Also I was wondering why you always say cart O' Racks when you shoot with your phase..?

Just my Opinion
*Snook

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Hey man, don't shoot the messanger, I'm just listing the facts.

We all can have equipment issues, it's just the name o' the game.

As far as the cart o' rocks vs. and lcd, don't think you and about 3,000 others wouldn't jump at the fact of having and Iphone type lcd.

Same with iso.  You may be studio bound, but working continuous light has a lot of advantages.

Anyway, I'm just having fun and don't take any of this as seriously as it comes off in print.

JR
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gwhitf

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2008, 02:11:02 pm »

The only autofocus thing that ever got my attention was that one weird Canon body, where there was some tiny little man inside the camera, and he would watch wherever you were watching, inside the viewfinder, and wherever your eye went, the little man would move the autofocus sensor to that exact spot.

When I saw that ad, I thought, "No way in hell. This can't be true. That is just too amazing". I never talked to anyone that ever bought that camera, so I don't know if it worked or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye-controlle...rolled_focusing

The thing with autofocus to me is: It sets up this really weird internal dialogue inside my brain. I see what the shot is going to be, basically, and then I try to move that little red thing around until it sorta comes close to where I think I'm going to want to focus. (Already, by this time, I've used so much brain power that I'm already tired, just thinking about how to move the little red thing).

So then, the shot starts, and my brain starts freaking out, hoping (praying) that where the subject is, the little red thing is in that exact spot, just at the exact moment that the talent is looking great and perfect. At least for me, the whole thing is very stressful, liking I'm shooting a gun or something, and the laser beam has to be right over John Gotti's head.

Or, even worse, you get into that thing where you compose, but the red thing is not over the subject's face, so you move the camera, to get the red thing right, and then you pat your head and rub your stomach, and hold down a certain button to lock the focus, and then you recompose, and then hopefully shoot one frame! By that time, I'm exhausted again, and the talent is pissed, because two hours have gone by since they walked out onto the set, and I've only shot two frames, and I'm sweating like a pig, from the stress of using autofocus.

I just say, set your Diopter right, get a damn good screen, and manual/follow focus, and reduce the stress.

Maybe I'm missing something. I can't imagine that anyone uses autofocus, except maybe Rob Galbraith or LaForet. Autofocus is only for Beijing.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 03:11:26 pm by gwhitf »
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Snook

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2008, 02:22:03 pm »

Quote
Hey man, don't shoot the messanger, I'm just listing the facts.

We all can have equipment issues, it's just the name o' the game.

As far as the cart o' rocks vs. and lcd, don't think you and about 3,000 others wouldn't jump at the fact of having and Iphone type lcd.

Same with iso.  You may be studio bound, but working continuous light has a lot of advantages.

Anyway, I'm just having fun and don't take any of this as seriously as it comes off in print.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Of course I would I am a tech Junkie like most in here.
I just don't see how they could do it (The companies) and Please everyone and try to keep up with Canons... It is impossible. UNLESS, like you mentioned, also that they lower their prices and build a bigger market.
A good example is how many medium format sites are there? and of those which are any good?
Even PhaseOnes Forum is the WORST forum I have ever seen.
This is the only one I am in and even have time for.
Now look how many 35mm sites there are any how much advertising is posted all over them.

Just trying to put myself in their shoes. the shoes of the Back makers that is.
Let me tell you.. I HATE my P30 screen and think it is an absolute joke for this type of Back.
But I bought it anyways knowing that and you did to.
And I like the quality.
Either way the major Back dealers must being planning something b/c it might just be that next Canon that will destroy what they have left.
They need to get their shit together and produce lens worth all those megapixels and reach a price point.
My clients do not a 50,000$ difference in the images.
Only retocuhers and I (And other photographers) see the difference in my images... But unfortunately they do not pay the bill...
Snook

By the way 150 Does look very sharp indeed... Which was the point of this post...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 02:39:10 pm by Snook »
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John_Black

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2008, 02:39:16 pm »

Snook - after factoring in the crop lines for a P30 in the 645AFD II viewfinder vs the 1Ds3, the 1Ds3 viewfinder feels larger to me.  I spent many hours comparing the 645AFD II with a P25 to the 1Ds2 and 1Ds3 viewfinder.  After accounting for the crop factors/lines I "felt" the 1Ds2 was about the same as the 645AFD II view.  The 1Ds3 felt bigger.  This is difficult to compare, so I stress the word "felt".  I did the comparison with Mamiya 80mm AF 2.8 and a Canon 50L F1.0 (on the Canons of course).  In terms of brightness, the Mamiya 645AFD II viewfinder with a F2.8 viewfinder felt about as bright as a 1Ds2 viewfinder with a F4 lens.  Overall I think the 1Ds3's two strongest features are its viewfinder and its higher ISO performance.
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Snook

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2008, 03:37:20 pm »

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Snook - after factoring in the crop lines for a P30 in the 645AFD II viewfinder vs the 1Ds3, the 1Ds3 viewfinder feels larger to me.  I spent many hours comparing the 645AFD II with a P25 to the 1Ds2 and 1Ds3 viewfinder.  After accounting for the crop factors/lines I "felt" the 1Ds2 was about the same as the 645AFD II view.  The 1Ds3 felt bigger.  This is difficult to compare, so I stress the word "felt".  I did the comparison with Mamiya 80mm AF 2.8 and a Canon 50L F1.0 (on the Canons of course).  In terms of brightness, the Mamiya 645AFD II viewfinder with a F2.8 viewfinder felt about as bright as a 1Ds2 viewfinder with a F4 lens.  Overall I think the 1Ds3's two strongest features are its viewfinder and its higher ISO performance.
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Thanks for the information
Hoping to check out a 1DsMIII on my trip to the state right now.
Anybody know any good stores in Houston Texas..
Will be there for a week or so.
Thanks
Snook
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eronald

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2008, 04:23:24 pm »

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I agree but do not understand how the hell you guys are manually focusing the 1DsMII..
Either you have Eagle eyes or you freakin lucky!.
I can see shit in my Canon Viewfinder and I have a Brightscreen in it...
I guess you guys are talking about in VERY well lit areas and maybe waist up portraits...
Other wise I have a hard time beleiveing either one of you..:+]
SNook
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Snook, the 1DsIII, whatever its faults has a usable finder.

Edmund
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jing q

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2008, 04:44:25 pm »

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The only autofocus thing that ever got my attention was that one weird Canon body, where there was some tiny little man inside the camera, and he would watch wherever you were watching, inside the viewfinder, and wherever your eye went, the little man would move the autofocus sensor to that exact spot.

When I saw that ad, I thought, "No way in hell. This can't be true. That is just too amazing". I never talked to anyone that ever bought that camera, so I don't know if it worked or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye-controlle...rolled_focusing

The thing with autofocus to me is: It sets up this really weird internal dialogue inside my brain. I see what the shot is going to be, basically, and then I try to move that little red thing around until it sorta comes close to where I think I'm going to want to focus. (Already, by this time, I've used so much brain power that I'm already tired, just thinking about how to move the little red thing).

So then, the shot starts, and my brain starts freaking out, hoping (praying) that where the subject is, the little red thing is in that exact spot, just at the exact moment that the talent is looking great and perfect. At least for me, the whole thing is very stressful, liking I'm shooting a gun or something, and the laser beam has to be right over John Gotti's head.

Or, even worse, you get into that thing where you compose, but the red thing is not over the subject's face, so you move the camera, to get the red thing right, and then you pat your head and rub your stomach, and hold down a certain button to lock the focus, and then you recompose, and then hopefully shoot one frame! By that time, I'm exhausted again, and the talent is pissed, because two hours have gone by since they walked out onto the set, and I've only shot two frames, and I'm sweating like a pig, from the stress of using autofocus.

I just say, set your Diopter right, get a damn good screen, and manual/follow focus, and reduce the stress.

Maybe I'm missing something. I can't imagine that anyone uses autofocus, except maybe Rob Galbraith or LaForet. Autofocus is only for Beijing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212596\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I love that camera.it's in my cupboard right now. I used to shoot people with a wide lens and the other hand adjusting their faces so my eye would do the focusing.
too bad they never worked further on that autofocus concept...
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cyberean

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2008, 05:09:43 pm »

Quote
Why would I want to put a Zeiss lens on a Canon sensor. especially if I have an RZ and AFDII.
agreed ...  only you can determine what lenses you personally prefer to
use/mount, for a given application, and with/on which system.

though, other photogs choose to mount Zeiss glass on their digital Canon
(or Nikon) as they may be seeking a particular look and/or other lens-
specific characteristics (and or logistics) that a Canon (or a Nikon) sensor
and Zeiss lens (or other lens brand, for that matter) combo offers that's
not available otherwise.

Quote
Anything that is need with Zeiss manual focus should be shot with my MFDB anyways.
it seems that Zeiss has a different opinion on this topic.  
(Zeiss ZM   Zeiss ZF,ZK,ZS)
as well as, of course, other photogs who've adopted various older and/or
discontinued Zeiss glass to their 35mm dSLRs (and aSLRs).

hey ... but what do they know.
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2008, 05:31:15 pm »

Quote
Just trying to put myself in their shoes. the shoes of the Back makers that is.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212598\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know what medium format shoes are like because they just don't get their message out, or even worse they just don't want to tell their message, the good and the bad.

Hopefully more good than bad, but at least give us some wink or nod that your listening.

They all need a video where the CEO of each company answers straight talk.

__________________________________________________________________________

MR:  So CEO, why is 800 iso smeared or yucky?

CEO:  Because Dalsa and Kodak are cheap and won't make new sensors that's not already sitting on the shelf.  They will cut some different sizes, I think the last one they suggested was a oval, because there is more yield to cutting ovals.

MR:  So CEO, what is the answer?

CEO:  After my kids soccer practice  I took the Jersey Turnpike over to Sony and they are making a new sensor now, for 1/2 price and it will be out in 12 days.  Goes iso 2 to 2,000.  

MR:  How bout that lcd?

CEO:  Yea, no problem man, I went down last night and bought 600 ipod touches on my mastercard and my guys are ripping those screens out now.  We should have them glued on the back of the camera in a week, just about the time the UPS guy shows up with the sensors.

MR:  Good job.

CEO:  Thank You.
_________________________________________________________________________


I know the people at Leaf and Phase and through this Forum Sinar Theirry and they're all nice people busting tail to give us specialty equipment.  I appreciate that more than I can write, but then again, I got work to do, so instead of me tossing another 8 grand over to Cophenhagan, Tokyo got it this time.

Today I bought the 1ds3.  It took 6 minutes.  Honestly, 6 minutes from when I drove up to the store and drove off.  Let me repeat that . . . 6 minutes.  

I came back, unwrapped it all like new, in case I freaked out and wanted to take it back and all I can say is it's great and makes me somewhat unhappy.

The great part is Canon has addressed about every complaint from the 1ds2.  I mean everything is well thought out and everything just works.

The learning curve is about 15 minutes and about another 4 miutes to set all your custom stuff.

Every Canon lens I own fits, the little 4x5 black focuing screen fits, it's all just rock solid and almost frightening how well built.

You can manual focus and it may not pop like a RZ, but you can focus and be very accurate.

The sad part is all I want from my digital backs is 800 clean iso.  I keep saying, have said it for years, but obviously medium format can't do it, or doesn't seem to think it's that important.

And remember 800 iso on even a 645 camera with the slight bellows factor (and the fact that the term iso seems to be a moveable item,) is equal to about 600 iso on a Canon, if even that.  In other words F3.5 at 1/125 on a Canon is a lot brighter than 3.5 at 1/125 on the backs.

Damn.

I love those Contax cameras, I love shooting them, I know them so well I could shoot them during an acid flashback and not miss a beat.

Forget the lcd, cause at this point I don't see that changing that much either, but I can't in all of my justification for not blowing any more money on digital stuff, look at an 800 iso file from the backs and compare it to the Canon and not see a big difference.

Maybe it's just the two sensor makers.  Maybe they just have the back companies by the nads, but for some reason nobody is producing a sensor that is that clean at high iso.

Now maybe the new backs will pixel bin or something like that and give us 800 iso clean.  That's great, but for an extra 20 grand more?

Damn.

JR


P.S.  Most of us are called to photograhy.  It isn't just a job, or something to appease a work release program.  Likewise we are drawn to cameras, real cameras, that look, feel, smell and work like professional instruments so if anybody reads the above and thinks I want an all 35mm dslr world, then I somehow miscommunicated.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 06:09:36 pm by James R Russell »
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tho_mas

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2008, 06:12:25 pm »

Quote
The sad part is all I want from my digital backs is 800 clean iso.  I keep saying, have said it for years, but obviously medium format can't do it, or doesn't seem to think it's that important.
I don't know much about chip technology. But I think this is CCD vs. CMOS. The Canons and the new Nikons, yes, are great in higher ISO. But when you compare CCD and CMOS in low and lowest ISO the CCD will have more details. And the look is more crisp. So better high ISO will go hand in hand with a loss of resolution in lowest ISO (today).
But let's see what's behind the scaleable pixel resolution of the upcoming P65+. If they do it with binning... possibly it's a step forward towhat you are asking for.
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Snook

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2008, 07:28:56 pm »

Quote
I don't know what medium format shoes are like because they just don't get their message out, or even worse they just don't want to tell their message, the good and the bad.

Hopefully more good than bad, but at least give us some wink or nod that your listening.

They all need a video where the CEO of each company answers straight talk.

__________________________________________________________________________

MR:  So CEO, why is 800 iso smeared or yucky?

CEO:  Because Dalsa and Kodak are cheap and won't make new sensors that's not already sitting on the shelf.  They will cut some different sizes, I think the last one they suggested was a oval, because there is more yield to cutting ovals.

MR:  So CEO, what is the answer?

CEO:  After my kids soccer practice  I took the Jersey Turnpike over to Sony and they are making a new sensor now, for 1/2 price and it will be out in 12 days.  Goes iso 2 to 2,000. 

MR:  How bout that lcd?

CEO:  Yea, no problem man, I went down last night and bought 600 ipod touches on my mastercard and my guys are ripping those screens out now.  We should have them glued on the back of the camera in a week, just about the time the UPS guy shows up with the sensors.

MR:  Good job.

CEO:  Thank You.
_________________________________________________________________________
I know the people at Leaf and Phase and through this Forum Sinar Theirry and they're all nice people busting tail to give us specialty equipment.  I appreciate that more than I can write, but then again, I got work to do, so instead of me tossing another 8 grand over to Cophenhagan, Tokyo got it this time.

Today I bought the 1ds3.  It took 6 minutes.  Honestly, 6 minutes from when I drove up to the store and drove off.  Let me repeat that . . . 6 minutes. 

I came back, unwrapped it all like new, in case I freaked out and wanted to take it back and all I can say is it's great and makes me somewhat unhappy.

The great part is Canon has addressed about every complaint from the 1ds2.  I mean everything is well thought out and everything just works.

The learning curve is about 15 minutes and about another 4 miutes to set all your custom stuff.

Every Canon lens I own fits, the little 4x5 black focuing screen fits, it's all just rock solid and almost frightening how well built.

You can manual focus and it may not pop like a RZ, but you can focus and be very accurate.

The sad part is all I want from my digital backs is 800 clean iso.  I keep saying, have said it for years, but obviously medium format can't do it, or doesn't seem to think it's that important.

And remember 800 iso on even a 645 camera with the slight bellows factor (and the fact that the term iso seems to be a moveable item,) is equal to about 600 iso on a Canon, if even that.  In other words F3.5 at 1/125 on a Canon is a lot brighter than 3.5 at 1/125 on the backs.

Damn.

I love those Contax cameras, I love shooting them, I know them so well I could shoot them during an acid flashback and not miss a beat.

Forget the lcd, cause at this point I don't see that changing that much either, but I can't in all of my justification for not blowing any more money on digital stuff, look at an 800 iso file from the backs and compare it to the Canon and not see a big difference.

Maybe it's just the two sensor makers.  Maybe they just have the back companies by the nads, but for some reason nobody is producing a sensor that is that clean at high iso.

Now maybe the new backs will pixel bin or something like that and give us 800 iso clean.  That's great, but for an extra 20 grand more?

Damn.

JR
P.S.  Most of us are called to photograhy.  It isn't just a job, or something to appease a work release program.  Likewise we are drawn to cameras, real cameras, that look, feel, smell and work like professional instruments so if anybody reads the above and thinks I want an all 35mm dslr world, then I somehow miscommunicated.
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Funny James I always thought you were on the Nikon side? Why did you go canon instead of Nikon...?
I remember we e-mailed each other way back and you suggested I not buy the P30 and get 1 Nikon instead.?
Now you bought a Canon...
What happened...;+}
Did you buy the 1DsMIII for any particular reason.. did you buy it try and say something to the MF companies that you are so disappointed with ?
Almost sounds like you bought it just to prove a point?
Is that the case?
After you get to play with it I would love to hear what you think about it and he quality compared to your P30?
Thanks
Snook
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James R Russell

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Mamiya 150mm 2.8 D lens . Some test images
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2008, 02:29:28 am »

Quote
F
Did you buy the 1DsMIII for any particular reason.. did you buy it try and say something to the MF companies
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Of course not.  I just have two large projects in production that require 640 to 800 clean iso and though they are different genres, on different coasts, the discipline is close to the same.

Nothing more, nothing less and I will continue to use my phase backs when I can.

I doubt seriously if I will ever compare them side by side, except for my recent quick test.

They are just different cameras and for this time and for my work, different purposes.

Same with the Nikon, for fast moving, high iso that gives me the best result, but it won't replace the Canons, or the Phase, at least until they come out with the 24mpx version and then who knows?

JR
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 02:38:55 am by James R Russell »
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