Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Parallax in panoramas  (Read 13155 times)

Ray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10365
Parallax in panoramas
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2008, 07:47:42 am »

Quote
I can not comment on that pano-candidate, but even using Autopano is upside down. Autopano is not for solving difficult panos. In other words, if Autopano can not stitch a pano properly, then a decent stitcher needs to be used (though that does not guarantee, that it can be stitched).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210199\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I should experiment a bit more with Autopano to see where its limitations are. I vow that on my next trip I shall take a lot more hand-held shots for stitching   .

The following 4 images taken with a 24mm lens on a lightweight ball-head tripod look a bit of a mess. I was doubtful that Autopano could stitch them successfully. I expected that the paving in the foreground would not come out right. I was surprised.

In fact, the paving seemed at first glance to be stitched perfectly. Then I noticed a slight irregularity, but it's not a problem. I wonder if you can spot it   .

These shots were 5 sec exposures at ISO 1600 using the 5D.

[attachment=7631:attachment]  [attachment=7632:attachment]  [attachment=7633:attachment]
Logged

Panopeeper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1805
Parallax in panoramas
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2008, 04:08:18 pm »

Ray,

it is a mistake to believe, that the capability of a stitcher is explained with successfuly stitched panos. It is just like when people are posting images demonstrating, how good their camera is at ISO 5,000,000, shot in excellent illumination.

The question is not what it *can* stitch but what it *can not*.

I tried the non-pro version for years ago, it sucked, and I have no reason to do anything now, for I am working with one of the decent stitchers. However, if I were to select a stitcher, I would check out following issues:

- can you specify horizontal and vertical lines?

- can you specify straight lines?

- can you specify, that the shots are with different focal lengths (or field of views)  due to refocusing between frames?

- which projections are supported?

- can you intervene between stitching and blending (i.e. modify the

- and some more.
Logged
Gabor

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Parallax in panoramas
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2008, 07:04:21 pm »

Quote
Ray,

it is a mistake to believe, that the capability of a stitcher is explained with successfuly stitched panos. It is just like when people are posting images demonstrating, how good their camera is at ISO 5,000,000, shot in excellent illumination.

The question is not what it *can* stitch but what it *can not*.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Agreed, but that is not something that you can assess only by looking at a set of features.

What you list here is indeed important for architcture, and PTgui is indeed probably still king of the hill thanks to its ability to specify vertical and horizontal lines.

There are however many images where it *can not* detect the connection between images because there are few discernable features or a low contrast. Autopano pro is significantly ahead here. The following image is an example where PTgui couldn't stitch 80% of the images in the pano, Autopano Pro did it without any problem.



There are also cases where PTgui just *can not* merge seemlessly images with moving subjects or parallax errors. Here also, Autopano Pro appears to be superior in many cases. The following image is a good example where Autopano Pro did a better job off the shelf (it wasn't perfect though):



If you are perfectly happy with PTgui, indeed no need to look elsewhere. If you see some cases where it doesn't do a perfect job, I have a hard time understanding why you would want to deprive yourself from using a tool as brilliant as Autopano Pro.

Cheers,
Bernard

Panopeeper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1805
Parallax in panoramas
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2008, 08:18:46 pm »

Quote
What you list here is indeed important for architcture
Not for architecture but for everything, where there are clear vertical lines, like city scapes. It is a common error of amateur panomakers, that buildings look like build by drunkards.

Quote
PTgui is indeed probably still king of the hill thanks to its ability to specify vertical and horizontal lines
Not PTGui but Panorama Tools. I am using PTAssembler, which too is based on Panorama Tools.

Althout there are neu "editions" (copycats) of Panorama Tools, they are mostly recodings. Some new projection methods too have been implemented (PTMender).

Quote
There are however many images where it *can not* detect the connection between images because there are few discernable features or a low contrast. Autopano pro is significantly ahead here. The following image is an example where PTgui couldn't stitch 80% of the images in the pano, Autopano Pro did it without any problem
Had the clouds been moving, Autopano would have created a horrendeous result (like all other automatised processes). PTA too can create a pano automatically, though it does not pay, in my experience.

Quote
There are also cases where PTgui just *can not* merge seemlessly images with moving subjects or parallax errors
Does PTGui not allow for interwention between stitching and blending? PTA does, and that is the best way to handle this.

There is NO blender, which can solve the blending of for example lightly wavy water surfaces; only manual intervention helps.

Furthermore, panos in the usually posted sizes don't show the problems. I work on my panos in 100% (and more), and when I see an error, I reduce the size to the probable print size to see if the error remains visible or if I can ignore it.
Logged
Gabor

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Parallax in panoramas
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2008, 10:33:17 pm »

Quote
Not for architecture but for everything, where there are clear vertical lines, like city scapes. It is a common error of amateur panomakers, that buildings look like build by drunkards.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Cityscapes is architecture in my book. There are plenty of other subjets where vertical lines don't need to stay vertical. Besides, the question is mostly how easy it is to make verticals vertical. It can be done with most packages manually.

Quote
Had the clouds been moving, Autopano would have created a horrendeous result (like all other automatised processes). PTA too can create a pano automatically, though it does not pay, in my experience.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't remember seeing you next to me when I was shooting on that ridge at 3900 m, what makes you think that the clouds were not moving? They were most definitely moving. Again, I am talking about Autopano Pro, a very different beast compared to Autopano. Autopano pro uses proprietary Mac implementation of Smartblend.

Quote
Does PTGui not allow for interwention between stitching and blending? PTA does, and that is the best way to handle this.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well it does through the multi-layer PS export capability. The various layers are exported after having been deformed for stitching purpose. You can edit the masks any way you want, which I had to do for the second image posted above since the leaves on the water were moving, just like the clouds were.

This was complicated by the fact that this 2 row panorama has infinite DoF thanks to a preliminary DoF stacking job done by hand using Photoshop. I am saying that it complicates the task because of the longer time lag resulting from the numerous exposures (32 for this image). This is one example of an image where a sheet of 4x5 film on my Ebony would have done a similar job in a fraction of the time.

This is one weakness of Autopano pro where the multi-layer export does include non deformed layers from what I could see.

Quote
There is NO blender, which can solve the blending of for example lightly wavy water surfaces; only manual intervention helps.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Autopano Pro does again do a very good job here, perhaps not always perfect, but better than any other stitcher I have seen.

Quote
Furthermore, panos in the usually posted sizes don't show the problems. I work on my panos in 100% (and more), and when I see an error, I reduce the size to the probable print size to see if the error remains visible or if I can ignore it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It goes without saying that all the panos I post in small sizes here are perfect stitches when viewed at 100% on screen. I do not release any pano that isn't pefect at 100% on screen, even on smaller print sizes where defects might not show. There is always a possibility that I overlook a small defect of course.

Anyway, I am done with this topic. Fine if you prefer to keep using the tools you are used with. As far as I am concerned I prefer to use the best available combination of tool at any given moment in time, be it a new tool from a new company.

I use PTgui as my mainstream stitcher, and Autopano Pro for difficult stitching jobs. Similarly I use different raw converters based on their respective strenghts and weaknesses depending on the constraints.

Cheers,
Bernard
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up