Ideal MF system for Location/Portable Advertising

[James R Russell]

If I wanted a better/bigger screen for my phase back I'd just buy an OQO Model 1. Plug it via firewire with the phase one portable solution that can be purchased from your dealer and there you go. Much better and much cheaper than new back.
And if you buy a 30m firewire cable you won't have your clients around your back.   

Have a nice weekend!


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Will this really run C-1 in windows?  And if so with 300 mb I wonder how much is used by the operating system?

It looks like a pretty good idea.

JR

[richardhagen]

If I wanted a better/bigger screen for my phase back I'd just buy an OQO Model 1. Plug it via firewire with the phase one portable solution that can be purchased from your dealer and there you go. Much better and much cheaper than new back.
And if you buy a 30m firewire cable you won't have your clients around your back.   

Have a nice weekend!


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have you or anyone tried using an oqo model 1 on a phase back? it only has a 1GHz processor, a 30GB hard drive, 512MB of RAM. you would have to load the c1 software on it and it doesn't look like there's enough ram or clock speed.

rh

[ericisaac]

Mr Hiss,

What do you shoot? What do you do for a living?

Now, with no polaroid, you either hire a Tech, with all his mess and cables and drudgery, or you have a USABLE LCD on the medium format back. So you're either showing the AD the back of the camera (LCD) or you're walking him/her up to the Tech's monitor for approval.

Image quality is, of course, very important, but of equal importance is the communication with the client, during the shoot, and making sure that they are feeling good about the setups. Again, there is no more Polaroid.

Personally, I resist using Techs because of the Ball and Chain effect that it has on the project. On location, any and every time you move or explore a new shot, or a better angle, it's a whole affair of moving the cart, and the firewire cable access, and that dreaded effect of the whole damn crew slowing to begin to hover around the monitor, like they're being paid to watch TV or something, instead of looking/watching the live talent.

What is hard to understand about that?

And as you know, HCB or AA didn't really shoot for clients, and if AA did, from time to time, I'm sure he shot a polaroid and handed it to the AD that was in the factory with him.
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gwhitf,

Why is there a cart and cables and a big mess? You shouldn't really be burdened by digital, it should work for you, not against. While I've watched digital shoots get bigger and more elaborate, i've had much harder task of keeping it simple, compact and light while still keeping the AD and photographer happy with the images.

I use a laptop/tripod setup with long life batteries underneath the computer and a battery powered portable printer if onset printing is a necessity. I usually carry everything I need by myself. If you need to move, the laptop can move with you as you move rather than waiting for someone to wheel a cart. If you need to move faster than that, perhaps you should consider being untethered if that workflow could work for you, but I think most people in your situation cannot be.

Simply covering the screen with a hood prevents anyone from hovering near the computer since there is nothing to see. It's actually an issue that I get asked a lot about. If someone wants to see and they are curious, I simply say something like "its processing right now" and just leave it at that.

Another alternative is reintroducing the idea of the polaroid with onset printing. The portable printer I use, the Canon Selphy ES2 is compact and doesn't require power. It takes about 30 seconds to process an image and 30 seconds to make a print. So you'd have a print in about a minute which is around the same time it would take for a polaroid to cook.

hope this helps.

[ericisaac]

If I wanted a better/bigger screen for my phase back I'd just buy an OQO Model 1. Plug it via firewire with the phase one portable solution that can be purchased from your dealer and there you go. Much better and much cheaper than new back.
And if you buy a 30m firewire cable you won't have your clients around your back.   

Have a nice weekend!


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

windows, ick!

[Kumar]

Sinar used to make the CyberKit - basically an LCD screen with a dedicated computer. They discontinued it when they came up with LCDs on the back. Perhaps they should revive it.

Cheers,
Kumar

[gwhitf]

windows, ick!
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Eric,

Please tell me that that Windows thing won't work. I don't want to be tempted. And tell me that this screen representation is stripped in, and in the real world, (just like those fake Leaf ads in PDN), that the screen wouldn't be nearly this vibrant and clean. Have you ever seen one of these things working?

As far as your other question, I saw your post in that other thread, and I went to your blog, and wow you seem level headed, unlike me. I also saw the snapshot of the Italian marble digi cart at Milk; wow, that is some fancy wheelbarrow, literally with (glossy) rocks strapped to it.

I don't know how else to explain what I've written -- I think you're either a cart/firewire guy, or you're not. I just think it does something to the energy in the room when you're tethered -- everything just gets kinda heavier and more serious.

I've done the screen-flag thing, but the bellows ones I've bought are too effective -- hell, I have to lunge my head almost inside them to see the whole screen, and then it feels kinda porn. I know that the makeup artists want to "see what it looks like on film", and that's just human nature, but after a while, they kinda zone out, and they're just watching TV, and going, "Oh, wow, that's a good one. She looks pretty in that one".

And more than anything, it's about a hesitation to get into bed too much with a Tech. What if that Tech is booked, when a client moves a shoot two days, say, a week before the job? What if you send me some Trainee Guy, instead of the Head Guy, because the Head Guy is booked? What if my small job won't afford you, once I've gotten used to working with a Tech? What if my five day out of town job won't allow for a Tech, with his flight and hotels? There's just this thing that I don't even want to go near a Tech. I admit, it's just me. I'm Old School, and I just want to shoot a frame, look down at my Killer LCD, and go "Damn that looks good, let's shoot it", just like I used to do with a 665 Polaroid in my hand. And then I want to hand the card off to an assistant and have him download it. Clean and simple and easy.

The techs that I've hired always want to "process in the background" while I'm shooting. That scares the hell out of me. I let them run JPGs, just so they feel like they're doing something, but in the end, I always want to live with a job for a day or so, and then, even with the Canon, I always rebatch the RAWs into JPGs later. I never use the embedded JPG. There's just so much going on inside your head, when you're shooting, you have no effing idea how you really want the color to be dialed in, right there on the spot, in the heat of the moment. I find that I always want to cool it off, or warm it up, or push it out another third stop, but only after living with it a day.

You sound like a great guy, and I wish you the best. Good luck with your business.

[James R Russell]

But if the extra cost of full 645 sensors puts off a sufficient number of potential customers and to many of them are changing to 35mm, maybe action will be taken on a "compromise" format.
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I have no inside information, but I get this feeling that the days of 18, 20, 30 megapixel sensors are behind us, at least in medium format.

Personally, I don't understand it.  

Is Phase now only a Dalsa sensored company with their own proprietary design?   Will Hasselblad now be the only back using Kodak sensors and if so will that be limited to 50mpx?

And where does this leave Leaf and Sinar?  



JR

[Jack Flesher]

Please tell me that that Windows thing won't work.
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You prolly don't want to hear this, but I know the QQQ has the stuff to run the Betterlight scanning back normally.

,

[narikin]

windows, ick!
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Grow up Eric.

[narikin]

they have brought out the model 02 a while back and thats much better in all respects, bigger HDD, powerful enough processor, great screen, BUT sadly they did away with the Firewire port, so....

[James R Russell]

BUT sadly they did away with the Firewire port, so....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=209358\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wonder if it tethers to usb on something like the Canons.

Has anybody here ever used one of these?


JR

[Mort54]

I have no inside information, but I get this feeling that the days of 18, 20, 30 megapixel sensors are behind us, at least in medium format.

Personally, I don't understand it. 

Is Phase now only a Dalsa sensored company with their own proprietary design?   Will Hasselblad now be the only back using Kodak sensors and if so will that be limited to 50mpx?

And where does this leave Leaf and Sinar? 

Too much pessimism. Time for you to get out of the office and see the sun :-)

Seriously, why would you draw those conclusions from what we've heard in the last few weeks. A Phase One product line based only on the Dalsa 645 sensor would put them out of business, since so few pros need, or can afford, backs based on it. Phase needs a whole "product line", not just a single product. As long as there's a market for smaller sensors, I imagine Phase is going to deliver products with those sensors. It would be stupid not to, given that these backs exist and are well proven.

[James R Russell]

Too much pessimism. Time for you to get out of the office and see the sun :-)

Seriously, why would you draw those conclusions from what we've heard in the last few weeks. A Phase One product line based only on the Dalsa 645 sensor would put them out of business, since so few pros need, or can afford, backs based on it. Phase needs a whole "product line", not just a single product. As long as there's a market for smaller sensors, I imagine Phase is going to deliver products with those sensors. It would be stupid not to, given that these backs exist and are well proven.
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I'm not negative,  I just think historically medium format has differentiated it'self from the dslrs by pixel count.  

When the 1ds had 11mpx, mfdb had 22, when the 1ds had 17 mfdb has 31 to 39, now that the 1ds is 22 and nikon will be 24, the mfdb's annouce 50 and 60.

In other words the business model of mfdb's is consistent.

I'm not going to go over all the things like lcds again because it really is just beating a dead horse, but we all know what has been asked for and the response is always more pixels.

Look I assume the makers know what they are doing and giving the customer what they want and like most of the dealers say here, even though the first response to the high end product can seem negative, in the end the big one sells the most.  

Maybe it's just market saturation, but what I have seen now more than ever before is more used digital backs in the market.

Look at the 4 sale section of this site.  Usually it had one or two old digital backs for sale and a lot of old film cameras, but today there is 7 or 8 fairly new backs 4 sale.

Maybe the low end is now covered by the used market.

JR

Edit:  I don't get the negative part.  Maybe it's just the way forum writing comes across, but it's a free world and Phase, Leaf, Sinar, Hasselblad can make any equipment they want.

Once again, they're the experts so I assume they know what they are doing.

This thread is just a wish list of what we want on location and I think it's funny that it's now moved into taliing about portable tablet style computers just so we can see a readable image from a medium format back.

That should tell you something and where there is a hole in the medium format market.

[GregShapps]

why not just a Modbook by Axiotron from OWC - at least it has FW and 10.5

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook

[gwhitf]

why not just a Modbook by Axiotron from OWC - at least it has FW and 10.5


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You go first. Go ahead and pay full retail, work out the kinks, get it tweaked out, and then report back here.

[Rob C]

I don't know how else to explain what I've written -- I think you're either a cart/firewire guy, or you're not. I just think it does something to the energy in the room when you're tethered -- everything just gets kinda heavier and more serious.



And there you have a basic truth about photographers being individuals.

Never mind the digital baggage, I know how it used to be with film, and that was just the same damn thing: with the hand-held Nikon I felt free and without anything between myself and the model and the pictures we were both trying to make. With the ´blad it was a tripod for everything and, as you say, it does something to the energy of the room or even the field, old house or anywhere else you find yourself. That also applied to the 35mm format with a lens longer than 50mm; I didn´t like my 85mm after I bought it so it was hardly ever used, thus in effect, anything longer, 105mm included, was, for me, a no-no off a tripod.

With a tripod making such an emotional difference, God alone knows how it must be with today´s crews - perhaps it WAS time that I got out after all!

Rob C

[James R Russell]

You go first. Go ahead and pay full retail, work out the kinks, get it tweaked out, and then report back here.
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There is always this

[Mort54]

I'm not negative,  I just think historically medium format has differentiated it'self from the dslrs by pixel count. 

All good points, as usual. Personally, I'd love for my P45+ to be obsoleted by a new Nikon or Canon DSLR, since DSLRs are so much more pleasant to use. The 24 MP D3X won't do it (tho I'll get one anyway :-), but maybe the D4 or D5. Until then, I'll just continue to enjoy the P45+.

If MFDBs do continue to move to higher MP while dropping the lower MP, then I have to believe that existing backs will come down in price (great news) and that the higher MP backs will drop down to the price point currently occupied by the 39 MP backs. If so, then nothing much has changed. If not, then I don't see how MFDBs can survive, because the market at the current 60 MP price point will be too small. Either way, I think I'm set for the foreseeable future with the P45+, since it lets me print at 24 x 32, and I don't need anything bigger than that.

[samuel_js]

windows, ick!
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I'm an avid mac user but this thing just works. I actually ordered one for my H20 after talking to PhaseOne about it but I got a good deal on the P20 so I went for it because I don't have problems with the screen.

The OQO is gorgeous and I know photographers using it. Actually I know a well known photographer that keeps using the H20/OQO instead of the P20 just because of the screen.

[snickgrr]

Read this regarding the current market:  http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2014

And this is the market that is greeted by $40k plus digital backs?
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Not to belabor the point but is this a reflection of the new professional "photo" studio?  A UK shop that specializes in photorenders.  Prices are cheap.

[a href=\"http://www.protograph.co.uk/]http://www.protograph.co.uk/[/url]