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Author Topic: Nikon D700 announced  (Read 13210 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Nikon D700 announced
« on: July 01, 2008, 12:56:05 am »

Rumours were brewing on the forums and once more they proved to be right:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0807/08070103...00previewed.asp

Due to become available in 3 weeks, which is great news since at least Nikon appears to be backing off from the previous industry habit of doing paper launches.

My personnal view is that the D700 is a bit under-speced compared to the rumoured 5dII, but future will tell. I feel that this body mostly targets Nikon film users that had not migrated to digital yet, meaning all the guys still with F80, F90, F100, F5 and F6.

I wouldn't be very surpised though if Nikon released a 25 MP D3x in September, followed by a 25 MP D900 in April 09... future will tell but we are starting to see a clear pattern here. First make the newest tech available at a high price premium in very high end bodies, then make them available for the "masses" at a more affordable price (still high obviously) in a more compact body. Everybody wins, including Nikon since they can really reduce developement cost immensely.

At the same time, Nikon also announced a new flash called SB-900 that is overall better, and most interestingly is able to pass to the body information on the color filters used (fluorescent or incandescent). This should allow more natural WB in artificial light environments.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0807/08070101nikonsb900.asp

We are not yet at the full RGB led based flash able to adopt to the WB of the ambiance, but we are getting there.

Finally, they also announced the release of their 2 other T/S lenses (45 and 85 mm) as announced in January.

Cheers,
Bernard

Quentin

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 06:17:50 am »

Great camera with super high ISO performance, but somehow I just can't get excited about another 12-ish megapixel camera.  Put a 18mp+ sensor in the same body and I'd buy it in a flash.  

I realise there is more to image quality than mp, but 12mp is not quite enough for my uses.  These days you can have your cake and eat it.

Quentin
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Mike Louw

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 07:42:33 am »

As a Canon 5D user, I'm VERY pleased to see the launch of this new Nikon. Surely the 5DII can't be far behind....

I agree re the 12 MP; I hope the 5DII is 16MP or thereabouts.
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Giedo

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 05:23:11 pm »

Quote
Great camera with super high ISO performance, but somehow I just can't get excited about another 12-ish megapixel camera.  Put a 18mp+ sensor in the same body and I'd buy it in a flash. 

I realise there is more to image quality than mp, but 12mp is not quite enough for my uses.  These days you can have your cake and eat it.

Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204731\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As a Canon 5D owner, I do not agree. 18 mp will not make a huge difference (you have to double pixels to experience a real improvement according to several sources).
More important to me is the power of the image processing that the Nikon D3 and now a D700 can provide. IQ at high ISO is simply the best one can think of. The 5D lags behind enormously!

I can't  help thinking that Canon has lost the edge they had over Nikon. Nikon seems in a flow, while Canon keeps us eagerly waiting... I'm not switching yet. But only because of my investment in Canon  lenses.

regards, Giedo
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Giedo

macgyver

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 06:47:33 pm »

Quote
Great camera with super high ISO performance, but somehow I just can't get excited about another 12-ish megapixel camera.  Put a 18mp+ sensor in the same body and I'd buy it in a flash. 

I realise there is more to image quality than mp, but 12mp is not quite enough for my uses.  These days you can have your cake and eat it.

Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204731\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'd happily take 12 over 16 if it meant better high ISO quality. Not just cleaner, but more detailed as well. The detail is key. If they can do 16 or 18 or whatnot and still keep equal or better quality to what we've seen from the D3...then that's a different story.
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NigelC

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 05:07:23 am »

I think the key is in pricing. In the UK the 5D is now around £1200-1300 with cashback and the D300 is £970. WhenI bought my 5D in April 06 it was about £1500 after cashback. What the D700 does is to put a spoiler on Canon putting a 40D style makeover in the market and expect to get away with a premium price, If they do a 40D style upgrade to the 5D and sell for about £1200 UK it will be OK because I would guess the D700 will settle at about £1800 in UK (in spite of $3000 dollar pricetag in US)

I just wonder if Canon will come up with 2 cameras, a 5D Mk 2 at a very competitive price to attack the D300 and a higher spec model to compete with the D700 (whcih Canon must have known was coming)
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Quentin

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 05:58:58 am »

I'm still quite tempted to buy one, however, despite the ordinary pixel count.

Quentin
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BJL

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 03:17:26 pm »

Quote
I think the key is in pricing. In the UK the 5D is now around £1200-1300 with cashback
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
which is clearly end-of-life clearance pricing on what is I believe easily the oldest DSLR model still on the market; not what can be expected of a new and improved model.
Quote
If they do a 40D style upgrade to the 5D and sell for about £1200 UK
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The 5D body is basically 30D level or a bit below apart from the sensor (and way below on frame rate), so "40D style" would indeed by an upgrade on the non-digital side along with the expected sensor upgrade. Such a camera would clearly be priced well above current 5D pricing, not slightly below.

My guess is that the 5D replacement will be priced close to the D700 but a bit less, with somewhat lower specs on the non-digital side (40D-like?), but with a far higher pixel count. If so, it will serve a somewhat different market, such as the landscape lovers that we are all meant to be here!
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Steve Kerman

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 03:53:50 pm »

As time go-oh-s o-on!...  (as sung by Chicago )

It's been almost a year since the 40D was introduced.  Given pace of this market, I would expect the 5D replacement to be a significant advance over "40D-like."
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BernardLanguillier

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2008, 05:53:31 pm »

Quote
My guess is that the 5D replacement will be priced close to the D700 but a bit less, with somewhat lower specs on the non-digital side (40D-like?), but with a far higher pixel count. If so, it will serve a somewhat different market, such as the landscape lovers that we are all meant to be here!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205054\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

All bets are open, but I would personnally be surprised if the 5dII were above 16MP. That would translate in about 15% more linear enlarging capability compared to 12MP. In other words, you'll be able to print a 22 inch print at the same native resolution you are current able to print a 19 inch print.

For most practical applications the difference will be next to impossible to tell.

The reason why I believe that Canon will not go higher than 16MP is 3 fold:

1. They will not want to compromise the high ISO image quality since they still believe that it is a key differentiator of theirs,
2. They will not want to risk canibalize their flagship 1ds3,
3. They don't appear to be willing to invest the kind of money it would take to come up with a new paradigm shift in still photography sensor design.

My guess is that Canon has already started to invest in the convergence of still and movies to stay competitve against Sony in what is assumed to be the next big thing. This will be great for those interested in video, too bad for those focussing only on still photography.

Just guessing obviously.

Cheers,
Bernard

Steve Kerman

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2008, 07:30:43 pm »

(Deleted--I didn't see that Bernard was "just guessing, obviously.")
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 07:32:24 pm by Steve Kerman »
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cn15

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2008, 05:26:48 am »

I have been a long time Nikon fan, starting with the FM2, F70 and D70.  Recently, I was looking at an upgrade for the D70 and was considering the D300 ($1800 usd), 5D ($1900) and 40D ($939).  I had a chance to play with the 30D and prefer the IQ of the 30D over the D70.  After agonizing over the options for several weeks, I decided to go with the 40D and spend the difference on quality glass and start a new lens collection.  The old D70 and 4 lenses will go to my nephew.  I would have stayed with Nikon if the D300 is priced closer to the 40D instead of being twice the price.  Various reviews rate both cameras very favorably and quite similarly.

The D700 is listed at $3000, which is at least $1000 more than the 3-year old 5D.  I imagine the next 5DmkII is just around the corner and will be substantially improved and probably listed below $3000.

Sometimes I wonder about Nikon's pricing strategy.  Am I the rare one feeling this way?  

Chuong
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BernardLanguillier

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2008, 05:54:28 am »

Quote
The D700 is listed at $3000, which is at least $1000 more than the 3-year old 5D.  I imagine the next 5DmkII is just around the corner and will be substantially improved and probably listed below $3000.

Sometimes I wonder about Nikon's pricing strategy.  Am I the rare one feeling this way? 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205199\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The D700 and 5D are in a totally different league as far as the physical features of the bodies is concerned: build, AF,... that explains the price difference.

Regards,
Bernard

BJL

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2008, 04:07:42 pm »

Quote
The reason why I believe that Canon will not go higher than 16MP is 3 fold:

1. They will not want to compromise the high ISO image quality since they still believe that it is a key differentiator of theirs,
2. They will not want to risk canibalize their flagship 1ds3,
3. They don't appear to be willing to invest the kind of money it would take to come up with a new paradigm shift in still photography sensor design.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205102\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
None of these dismisses the option of using the 1DsMkIII sensor in a lower priced (and lower frame-rate?) model to replace the 5D.
1. If the high ISO image quality of that 21MP sensor is good enough for the 1DsMkIII, it surely is good enough for a model at less than half the price.
2. Once your competitors are willing and able to cannibalize your expensive products with strong, less expensive alternatives, you have no choice but to join them in the feast. A half-baked 5DII would risk driving sales to similarly priced Nikon and Sony more than to the far more expensive 1DsMkIII.
3. Reusing the same sensor requires no new investment in sensor design, so is cheaper than designing another sensor whose main "virtue" is not being good enough to take too many sales from the 1DsMkIII.
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BernardLanguillier

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 05:44:09 pm »

Quote
None of these dismisses the option of using the 1DsMkIII sensor in a lower priced (and lower frame-rate?) model to replace the 5D.
1. If the high ISO image quality of that 21MP sensor is good enough for the 1DsMkIII, it surely is good enough for a model at less than half the price.
2. Once your competitors are willing and able to cannibalize your expensive products with strong, less expensive alternatives, you have no choice but to join them in the feast. A half-baked 5DII would risk driving sales to similarly priced Nikon and Sony more than to the far more expensive 1DsMkIII.
3. Reusing the same sensor requires no new investment in sensor design, so is cheaper than designing another sensor whose main "virtue" is not being good enough to take too many sales from the 1DsMkIII.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yep, this is indeed one possible solution for Canon. It would obviously be the best solution for the Canon shooters and Canon themselves.

Let's see if the marketing folks at Canon Japan are smart enough to admit that Nikon's strategy has been better than their own.

Regards,
Bernard

DiaAzul

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2008, 06:57:48 pm »

Quote
Let's see if the marketing folks at Canon Japan are smart enough to admit that Nikon's strategy has been better than their own.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205352\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think Canon can sit quite smug until Nikon can demonstrate a significant profit from their strategy. You can give away anything, trying to make a profit as you win back market share is harder - especially when your competition has economies of scale in R&D and production.
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BernardLanguillier

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2008, 07:36:40 pm »

Quote
I think Canon can sit quite smug until Nikon can demonstrate a significant profit from their strategy. You can give away anything, trying to make a profit as you win back market share is harder - especially when your competition has economies of scale in R&D and production.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205368\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's going to be very hard to figure out from the outside though.

But if anything it would seem that the economies of scale are on Nikon side, right? The figures I have read show that they are producing a lot more D3 than Canon produced 1ds2 + 1ds3 combined.

D700 can only expand that further, right?

If you are hinting at economies of scale in R&D between Canon camera division and other divisions, well that is also very hard to assess from the outside. They do probably indeed manage to commonalize some basic process and sensor design technology research between their still and video camera divisions, but my guess is that there is still a very significant part of the work that only pertains to the still sensors.

Besides, R&D is only a part of the work, the validation is also very heavy and that has to be mostly camera parts/camera assembly specific.

My contention is that Canon doesn't probably even know themselves exactly how much they save compared to how much they would have spent with totally separate divisions. So I don't know to what extend their integration will help them figuring out whether they should follow Nikon or not...

But in the end this is mostly non relevant for end users as long as Nikon stays in business and makes enough money to keep investing in R&D, which appears to be vert much the case today.

My view is that Nikon's approach is the right one because it gives access to many photographers to the cutting edge technology available at a given point of time. This is why I wrote above that Canon using the 1ds3 sensor in the successor of the 5D would be great for Canon users (unless I am over-estimating the quality of that sensor of course).

Cheers,
Bernard

Ronny Nilsen

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2008, 06:06:23 am »

Quote
That's going to be very hard to figure out from the outside though.

But if anything it would seem that the economies of scale are on Nikon side, right? The figures I have read show that they are producing a lot more D3 than Canon produced 1ds2 + 1ds3 combined.

D700 can only expand that further, right?

[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think Nikon doing fine now. They show record profits: [a href=\"http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1381475/nikon_posts_record_sales_profit_on_brisk_digital_camera_sales/]Nikon record profit[/url] , and with a D3x they will finally be able to match Canons offering in all segments.

For Canon to offer a half-baked 5DII now would be stupid as Nikon has shown
that their strategy is sound bout from the cameras they make as well the economics of
it.
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James Godman

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2008, 02:42:52 pm »

Hope the D700 has mirror lock up.  But still waiting for a D3x.  Can't wait to switch back to Nikon!
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Lisa Nikodym

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Nikon D700 announced
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2008, 05:33:16 pm »

I'd think about switching from my D200 to a D700, but haven't been able to find any very-good-quality lenses for it of the sort I use.  I use Nikon's 18-200mm DX VR lens with the D200 (equiv. of full-frame 27-300mm), but I don't know of any really good zoom lenses covering a range of at least 30-150mm for full frame, which is the minimum I would find acceptable.  (Yes, there are some Sigma & Tamron lenses, but from the limited data I've been able to find they aren't nearly as good IQ as my Nikon.)

The current lens lineup on Nikon's web site has an awful lot of DX lenses.  Has anyone heard whether Nikon expects to be releasing significantly more FX-format lenses in the near future for D3 & D700 users???

Lisa
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