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Author Topic: ALPA 12 MAX - Now Shipping!  (Read 12320 times)

j.miller

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ALPA 12 MAX - Now Shipping!
« on: June 17, 2008, 10:52:44 am »

As of yesterday morning 16/06/2008, ALPA has started delivering the new, highly anticipated ALPA 12 MAX. According to www.alpa.ch, these first deliveries will include cameras to "pre-ordering customers".

In addition, several weeks back, ALPA announced a "short-list" of accessories specific to the ALPA 12 MAX. These accessories include several hand grips, both in rosewood and synthetic black, a new accessory viewfinder adapters for the Linhof multi-focus optical viewfinder, and a stitching adapter / tripod mount.

You can visit www.alpa.ch for more details.

Feel free to contact me with questions.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 09:06:42 am by JEM_DTG »
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2008, 03:07:16 pm »

Quote
As of yesterday morning 16/06/2008, ALPA has started delivering the new, highly anticipated ALPA 12 MAX. According to www.alpa.ch, these first deliveries will include cameras to "pre-ordering customers".

In addition, several weeks back, ALPA announced a "short-list" of accessories specific to the ALPA 12 MAX. These accessories include several hand grips, both in rosewood and synthetic black, a new accessory viewfinder adapters for the Linhof multi-focus optical viewfinder, and a stitching adapter / tripod mount.

You can visit www.alpa.ch for more details.

Feel free to contact me with questions.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
DTG
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202078\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Too bad it's so darn BIG... Makes the Horseman or the new Cambo seem like a better alternative...
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j.miller

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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2008, 03:30:07 pm »

Given that the vertical and horizontal shift movements of the ALPA 12 MAX are comprised of two separate, moving "sleds", and with a greater program of compatible accessories designed into the camera, I would expect a bit more size from ALPA.

It appears all of the movement of the Cambo (and the Horseman) take place on the rear "sled", where the back is mounted. The lens is designed to always be stationary.

The ALPA 12 MAX appears to weigh 200g less than the Cambo, yet more than the Horseman... Different tools for different people.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote
Too bad it's so darn BIG... Makes the Horseman or the new Cambo seem like a better alternative...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 09:06:50 am by JEM_DTG »
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narikin

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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 06:19:43 pm »

so what I'm finding it near impossible to find easily is what the maximum frame size is you can get with stitching from the camera (mm x mm) I don't need to know the rise/fall/shift, just what effective frame size you get if you do a 4-way shot vertical and/or horizontal with a 39Mp sensor size digital back.
thanks.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 06:23:10 pm by narikin »
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bryanyc

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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2008, 08:46:11 pm »

Quote
so what I'm finding it near impossible to find easily is what the maximum frame size is you can get with stitching from the camera (mm x mm) I don't need to know the rise/fall/shift, just what effective frame size you get if you do a 4-way shot vertical and/or horizontal with a 39Mp sensor size digital back.
thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202148\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Of course some wide angle digital lenses would not be able to cover the entire possible shift.
I believe I was told that the ground glass for the Alpa, which is square, was perfect for viewing the entire final stitched image area.....
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Mort54

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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2008, 11:24:37 pm »

Quote
so what I'm finding it near impossible to find easily is what the maximum frame size is you can get with stitching from the camera (mm x mm) I don't need to know the rise/fall/shift, just what effective frame size you get if you do a 4-way shot vertical and/or horizontal with a 39Mp sensor size digital back.
thanks.
Somewhere on Alpa's web site is an Excel spreadsheet that does what you're looking for. You enter the sensor size, lens focal length and image circle, etc, and among other things, it will calculate the effective sensor size with stiching. I recall it's rather hard to find, but I'm sure if you poke around enough on their site, you'll find it. It's not specific to Alpa - it's pretty generic.
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j.miller

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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 12:24:08 am »

I have been trying to dig this up all day! Here we go:

ALPA Photographic Calculations Worksheet

You find the tool(s) you are looking for on "Free Calculation" page of this Excel worksheet.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote
so what I'm finding it near impossible to find easily is what the maximum frame size is you can get with stitching from the camera (mm x mm) I don't need to know the rise/fall/shift, just what effective frame size you get if you do a 4-way shot vertical and/or horizontal with a 39Mp sensor size digital back.
thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202148\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 09:07:03 am by JEM_DTG »
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thom

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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 03:05:15 am »

Quote
...According to www.alpa.ch, these first deliveries will include cameras to "pre-ordering customers"...

I can confirm that, I received mine on monday, together with some lenses.
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narikin

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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 10:30:26 am »

Quote
Of course some wide angle digital lenses would not be able to cover the entire possible shift.
I believe I was told that the ground glass for the Alpa, which is square, was perfect for viewing the entire final stitched image area.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202172\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes but what IS the size of that ground glass?!  I'm not talking about the lens coverage issue here - just what maximum the sleds are capable of covering in mm x mm assuming your lens is up to it...  

it's a really basic question, but Alpa seem to bury it in waffle.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 10:31:12 am by narikin »
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adammork

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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 11:53:22 am »

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Yes but what IS the size of that ground glass?!  I'm not talking about the lens coverage issue here - just what maximum the sleds are capable of covering in mm x mm assuming your lens is up to it... 

it's a really basic question, but Alpa seem to bury it in waffle.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202236\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It depends on what ground glass you put on it!

I use a hasselblad 6x6 - the Alpa is 6x9

/adam
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narikin

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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2008, 12:09:19 pm »

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It depends on what ground glass you put on it!

I use a hasselblad 6x6 - the Alpa is 6x9

/adam
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202248\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

oh this is getting totally ridiculous - I just want to know what the maximum flexible 'sled' coverage is for this thing, when using a digital back in it.  we are in 2008, aren't we?

what is the problem with Alpa providing clear information on this BASIC question.
cant believe I'm even having to ask it 3 times...

I've been a professional for 30 years, so I know about lens coverage, and its not an issue for my prospective lens/usage, but no-one will tell me what the camera back movement adds up to in total mm x mm or inches x inches, so... I give up.
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snickgrr

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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2008, 12:19:45 pm »

I have no interest in the camera but from their site the specs are
total shift 36mm...18mm left, 18mm right
total rise/fall   43mm...25mm rise, 18mm fall



Quote
oh this is getting totally ridiculous - I just want to know what the maximum flexible 'sled' coverage is for this thing, when using a digital back in it.  we are in 2008, aren't we?

what is the problem with Alpa providing clear information on this BASIC question.
cant believe I'm even having to ask it 3 times...

I've been a professional for 30 years, so I know about lens coverage, and its not an issue for my prospective lens/usage, but no-one will tell me what the camera back movement adds up to in total mm x mm or inches x inches, so... I give up.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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adammork

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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2008, 12:20:41 pm »

Quote
oh this is getting totally ridiculous - I just want to know what the maximum flexible 'sled' coverage is for this thing, when using a digital back in it.  we are in 2008, aren't we?

what is the problem with Alpa providing clear information on this BASIC question.
cant believe I'm even having to ask it 3 times...

I've been a professional for 30 years, so I know about lens coverage, and its not an issue for my prospective lens/usage, but no-one will tell me what the camera back movement adds up to in total mm x mm or inches x inches, so... I give up.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

sorry for being totally ridiculous...

Here is the movements for the MAX, from ALPA's site:

shift upwards/rise: 25 mm
shift downwards/fall: 18 mm
vertical shift total:   43 mm

shift left:   18 mm
shift right: 18 mm
horizontal shift total: 36 mm

Then take the size of you sensor, grap you calculater and start calculating  

/adam
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schaubild

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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 12:23:31 pm »

Quote
...

what is the problem with Alpa providing clear information on this BASIC question.
cant believe I'm even having to ask it 3 times...


Instead of posting such strange statements here: wouldn't it be a good idea to ask them directly?
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Mort54

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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2008, 12:45:31 pm »

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oh this is getting totally ridiculous - I just want to know what the maximum flexible 'sled' coverage is for this thing
It's right on the datasheet, as plain as day, in black and white. It doesn't get any clearer than that. And it has nothing to do with the size of the ground glass. If you'd ask the right question, you'd get the right answer.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 12:47:40 pm by Mort54 »
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ericstaud

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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 12:49:51 pm »

Quote
oh this is getting totally ridiculous - I just want to know what the maximum flexible 'sled' coverage is for this thing, when using a digital back in it.  we are in 2008, aren't we?

what is the problem with Alpa providing clear information on this BASIC question.
cant believe I'm even having to ask it 3 times...

I've been a professional for 30 years, so I know about lens coverage, and its not an issue for my prospective lens/usage, but no-one will tell me what the camera back movement adds up to in total mm x mm or inches x inches, so... I give up.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202252\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A really basic question question that requires really basic math skills to answer.
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bryanyc

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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2008, 11:05:22 pm »

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I can confirm that, I received mine on monday, together with some lenses.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202201\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OK Thom, fess up.  What lenses, what are your initial impressions?

No click stops correct?  Release latch to move the sleds without gearing which is much faster?
Did you get the tripod adapter for stationary stitching?  The little plastic indicator for reading from the rear the front shift amount?  The 9 cm square gg back?

How does it feel?  Inquiring minds need to know  
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thom

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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 03:25:51 am »

Ok, the details:

My lenses: 28/35/47/70.
Initial impressions: stunning files (but this is no surprise, I'm used to use Canon - or maybe, it feels like home, means it reminds me of my 4x5-film-days!)

There are click-stops at 0, in both rails (left/right and up/down). I ordered a special rail (is this the right term?) with extra click-stops at 14mm left and right, this will give me a stiched image 48x64mm (3:4).
Two release latchs, as you mentioned. A new form of the shifting knob, so you can use one finger for turning it faster. It is a very precise mechanism, maybe too precise (read: too slow) for me - time will tell. But for faster movements, you can always use the release latchs. And no click-stop when using the turning knob! (or is it just my lack of fine feeling?)

No tripod adaptor, no indicators for me. (by the way: they are made of solid aluminum, aren't they?)
A idea: changing the positions of the lens and the back - so one is able to stich two shots vertically with a fixed lens. But then, rise is very limited - if you use the back for a rising picture, it turns into fall, wich is limited to 18mm (sorry for my bad english, but maybe you understand what I mean...) > Update: then turn the camera upside down, so you get 25mm fall (means in this case rise...). Now that's what I call a flexible camera! Mounting the back on the "front" can be a problem, depending on the physical size of your MFDBack and the adapter (but no problem with the aptus/mamiya-combo, I just tried it).

No Alpa groundglass, but two adaptors, one for the mamiya645-leaf (shooting), one for Hasselblad-V with the Arcbody-groundglass and their famous fresnels (composing).
Handling all those adapters, parts, glasses, screens, backs, caps on location? It was my idea, but was it a good one? I don't know - again, time will tell...

Everything feels very solid, very precise. Familiar with Arca-Swiss' automatic locking lensboards it is a little bit stange to use two manual latches to lock the lens - but maybe it is more secure (I remember, years ago, looking trough a 58XL, suddenly a disapearing picture - and then, looking for a 58XL deep in the snow...).

And a very good and friendly service from alpa in Zurich! I'm located in the middle between the alpa headquaters and the seitz factory - one more reason for me to buy this camera.

One last thing: a beautiful camera - but prone to fingerprints...

thom.


Quote
OK Thom, fess up.  What lenses, what are your initial impressions?

No click stops correct?  Release latch to move the sleds without gearing which is much faster?
Did you get the tripod adapter for stationary stitching?  The little plastic indicator for reading from the rear the front shift amount?  The 9 cm square gg back?

How does it feel?  Inquiring minds need to know 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202343\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 01:20:12 pm by thom »
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Dustbak

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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2008, 05:47:53 am »

It sounds really tempting. Would love to hear more from you about the actual usage. Especially interested in your experience how it works with the V and Rfmx finder (I guess you meant that one with the Arcbody/flexbody style finder).

I have been drooling over the Alpa for years. I am still gathering enough excuses to eventually get one
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bryanyc

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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2008, 10:45:20 am »

Thom,

Thanks for the report. You must be one of the absolute first to get the camera.

Your custom click stops / detents in the rail is a great idea: I wouldn't have known that this was an option.

Have you had an Alpa before?  I always use one finger to shift the SWA- and it is still slow.

I assume you got it without grips - or I would ask you if it is really hand holdable.

Can you mount the camera on the side so that you can use the detents in the other direction??

re: the shift indicators: i am sure you are right that they are aluminum.  They just look like drink swizzle sticks so I though of them as plastic!

Any more reactions / comments you might have on using the camera will be appreciated.
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