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Author Topic: why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?  (Read 7655 times)

geesbert

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« on: May 06, 2008, 08:24:32 am »

i don't really get it...sigma, tokina, tamron and others make lenses in canon mount, why not all those  nice voigtländer or zeiss lenses? using an adaptor with stopped down metering is not really 21st century stuff...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 08:25:15 am by geesbert »
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Tim Gray

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 10:47:44 am »

I'm guessing it's partially a licensing issue.  Canon (for obvious reasons) haven't licensed their mount technology to folks who make really really good lenses...
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geesbert

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 03:33:04 pm »

i cannot believe that. most buyers of entry level dslrs are buying sigmas and others rather than going for canon lenses. so why would canon give away that part of the cake?
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Tim Gray

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 05:09:36 pm »

Quote
i cannot believe that. most buyers of entry level dslrs are buying sigmas and others rather than going for canon lenses. so why would canon give away that part of the cake?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193900\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That may be true - but if Canon didn't license the low end, maybe they wouldn't sell any bodies either.  Certainly if Zeiss were available in a Canon mount, why would I buy "L's"?
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mcbroomf

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 05:24:47 pm »

I have a copy of the 125mm APO Lanthar Macro for EOS that Voigtlander made for a while, but I think it's the only one they did and there aren't too many of them around.

Mike
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Steve Kerman

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 01:27:35 pm »

I would not assume that Canon licensed Sigma et al for the EOS interface.  From what I remember reading at the time those competitors started producing EOS-compatible lenses, they simply reverse-engineered the interface.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 01:28:46 pm by Steve Kerman »
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Tim Gray

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2008, 10:28:38 am »

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00FiEq

This thread may not be authoritative, but there's reference to Sigma reverse engineering the EOS mount in the past - a practice they discontinued due to compatibility issues.  There also a quote supposedly from a Zeiss marketing manager citing patent considerations as the issue.
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AndreG

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2008, 07:16:00 am »

Hi,

Here is a reference for Zeiss to Canon...

http://en.conurus.com/index.html

André
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djgarcia

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2008, 12:50:29 am »

Quote
Hi,

Here is a reference for Zeiss to Canon...

http://en.conurus.com/index.html

André
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=195865\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dang, you beat me!

I can vouch for this conversion. I have the 17-35, 24-85, 100M and 70-300. Full EOS coupling from AF to EXIF data. Now if I could only find an 85/1.4 ...
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hbb

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2008, 03:58:15 am »

I have asked exactly this question to a Zeiss representative two weeks ago at a German Nature Photography exhibition. According to him, it is indeed a license issue. They are interested to offer their current 35mm line-up in EOS mount.

As I own Canon EOS equipment and a Pentax K10D (to use my Pentax Limited lenses I used before I switched to Canon in 2002), I have asked additionally for further 35mm lenses (especially Wide Angles shorter than 25mm) in Pentax K mount. On this question he stated I should wait for Photokina later this year...

Regards

Bernd
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timhurst

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2008, 07:41:12 am »

Quote
I have asked additionally for further 35mm lenses (especially Wide Angles shorter than 25mm) in Pentax K mount. On this question he stated I should wait for Photokina later this year...

Regards

Bernd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


ZF 21mm Distagon?????????????

That would be sweet indeed!
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jjlphoto

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2008, 12:03:19 pm »

Quote
This thread may not be authoritative, but there's reference to Sigma reverse engineering the EOS mount in the past - a practice they discontinued due to compatibility issues.  There also a quote supposedly from a Zeiss marketing manager citing patent considerations as the issue.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=195009\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Generally speaking, a manufacturer is free to reverse engineer a product to insure compatibility with another without any infringement. Tamron, and other lens smiths do this with no regard to Canon's patents nor via any licensing fees.

However, since the Contax SLR brand was marketed first by Yashica, then Kyocera, there may be some specialized agreements made way back when that involve both Zeiss and other Japanese camera manufacturers.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 12:05:34 pm by jjlphoto »
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clawery

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 09:06:02 am »

Have you considered Schneider at all?  Here is a link to show you some of the glass they have for Canon.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/C...ay.aspx?CID=179

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djgarcia

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 10:20:29 am »

Hey, thanks! Didn't know Schneider had an EOS mount PC lens! Are they actually available?
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clawery

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2008, 07:50:58 am »

Quote
Hey, thanks! Didn't know Schneider had an EOS mount PC lens! Are they actually available?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes they are!

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com]Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year[/url]

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Steve Kerman

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why are there no eos zeiss or voigtländer lenses?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2008, 10:16:36 pm »

Quote
Generally speaking, a manufacturer is free to reverse engineer a product to insure compatibility with another without any infringement. Tamron, and other lens smiths do this with no regard to Canon's patents nor via any licensing fees.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196395\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You are confusing patents with copyrights.  You can reverse-engineer, say, the copyrighted firmware of the IBM PC BIOS, and create a "clean-room" development of software that performs the same functions; this does not infringe the original copyright.

You cannot, however, do that with patents.  A patent covers any implementation of the patented technology, irrespective of whether it is independently developed.  In the scenario you propose, the third-party developers would be liable for substantial damages for patent infringement.

On the other hand, patents expire (IIRC) after 17 years.  The EOS mount has been in production for around 21 years, so any basic patents on the technology have expired.  There may be patents for subsequent improvements that are still in force.

I do not know if there in fact are or have been any patents on the EOS interface; the forgoing is the situation in abstract, if there are in fact any patents.

It is also possible for there to be trade-secret aspects of the electrical and protocol interface that are difficult to accurately replicate without inside information supplied under license from Canon.

The forgoing is the situation in the United States.  I suspect that things may be different in other areas of the world, such as Europe.  I get the impression that there are situations in Europe where one needs to license things that don't need to be licensed in the U.S.  (But I have no actual information on that--it's just reading between the lines of various statements I've seen over the years.)


Edit to add: Since one or more lens makers apparently did reverse engineer the EOS mount and produce lenses in the mount, and it appears that no lawsuits ensued, then it is quite possible that there are/were no patents covering that interface.  However, it is also possible that Canon merely choose to not enforce their patents, or that quiet behind-the-scenes activities resulted in licensing and payment of royalties without the presence of visible lawsuits.  (Significantly, Japan is far, far less litigious than the U.S.)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 10:56:14 pm by Steve Kerman »
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