how hand-holdable is the Hasselblad H series?

[micek]

I regard my Hasselblad 503CX as a tripod camera and never use it hand-held. Given the different ergonomics, would the H series work as a tripod-less travelling camera, or would weight and mirror slap be equally problematic?
There are no H cameras to check this on the island where I live, so I'd be grateful for any advice on this matter.

[Jae_Moon]

I regard my Hasselblad 503CX as a tripod camera and never use it hand-held. Given the different ergonomics, would the H series work as a tripod-less travelling camera, or would weight and mirror slap be equally problematic?
There are no H cameras to check this on the island where I live, so I'd be grateful for any advice on this matter.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192959\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have H2/P45. It is, at least to me, way too heavy with 50/110 mm lens as a travel/street camera. Also, since I seldom use P45 at ISO 400, I cannot hold it steady enough in many required exposure. I have been using a monopod with reasonable success. It can be done, but I gave up on the idea of using it as a handheld travel camera.

Jae Moon

[Dustbak]

I use the H handheld very often if not most of the time (read a bit over 50%). It is perfectly doable but I would have loved it when Hasselblad had spent a bit more time on the ergonomics. Not that it is really horrible but things like command dials could have been placed a little better, etc..

I also use the zoom handheld but that does wear you out and I can imagine most people not being comfortable with that but it delivers such good images it is hard to put down and put on another lens .

Euh.. I don't use the H as my street camera, I have the D300 for that. I use it on dedicated assignments, studio work and such...

I come from DSLR's and other stuff that have smooth mirrors and such so I am not really impressed by the H's mirror slap so I tend to stay on the safe side with shutter speeds.

It is a lot better than using a 500series handheld (I used the 553ELX, 503CW).

[Boris_Epix]

The Hassy H1,H2,H3 cameras have terrible ergonomics. I don't get it. If you hold the camera with one hand your thumb supports the entire camera. I haven't seen anyone using a neckstrap on the Hassy which doesn't really make sense because of size / weight anyway. The grip is flat on the inner side. Not even the crappiest Nikon/Canon DSLR is flat on the area where the fingertips of the right hand go.

With the Canons you can easily hang your camera over the shoulder and have 2 free hands. When shooting the Hassy you always need to have at least one assistant around to help or hold the camera.

As far as shutter speeds I would say below 1/60 is rarely ever satisfactorily sharp. The mirror slap is a REAL bitch. Now with 1/60 being the slowest usable shutter speed and 1/800 the fastest it's quite restricting (depending on your DOF requirements) if you're not using portable lighting.

With the Canon I've shot 200mm lenses ( with stabilization) at 1/8 seconds and received sharp frames. With the Mamiya RZ67 I shot the 80mm at 1/4 second (back leaned towards wall) and it was sharp (which surprised me when I had to do it the first time).

The Hassy is a pain in this regard and it surprises me that the 645 mirror of the Hassy slaps more than the 7x7 mirror of the Mamiya RZ which is based on approx. 25 year old technology.

But then again if you can live with the restrictions... many people are happy with the Hassle-blad :-)

The biggest outdoor advantage of the Hassy is the 1/800 x-sync speed. The greatest downsides outside are the size, weight and only one central AF point.

Any modern camera that is used for fashion / people photography should have at least 3 AF sensors (far left, central and far right) for vertical frames. And I wonder why there's no Hassy vertical grip.

Cheers
Boris

[Peter Bur]

I use my H3D-11 with the 35,80, &150mm lens handheld with very few problems, (with the exception of the 120mm macro lens) but I must admit it takes a bit of practice. I custom functioned the AF lock to the user button and not the shutter release button & this makes it significantly easier to focus & recompose when hand holding.

Peter.

[samuel_js]

I've used intensively both the H and V systems. Beside the manual focus I still find the V series much better than the H series. I agree the ergonomics are terrible. The camera is heavy and has a very plastic feeling. The 503 is still lighter and more discrete if you are traveling.

But, the H  series are much better for people moving and the AF and light meter are very welcome if you really want to concentrate on the subject. The AF is fast and accurate.

Still, I choose and prefer the 503CW. I suppose it depends on what you're shooting.

/Samuel

[micek]

Thanks everyone.
I don't think I'll be getting a Hasselblad H as a travelling camera  

[paul_jones]

i really like the h1 controls. i find it a world better than a v-series.
the only med format camera controls i like better is the contax.
the mirror shake can be stopped by a firmware upgrade that delays the shutter after the mirror by a tiny amount.

paul

[clawery]

i really like the h1 controls. i find it a world better than a v-series.
the only med format camera controls i like better is the contax.
the mirror shake can be stopped by a firmware upgrade that delays the shutter after the mirror by a tiny amount.

paul
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The H series cameras are more ergonomic, but as other people have posted, with a lens... they are heavy.  I can't imagine shooting with a H1/2 with a 50-100mm lens for any length of time.  I shoot RZ Pro II w/ Phase and it's a beast.  I always use a tripod with it.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com]Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year[/url]

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[mcfoto]

Thanks everyone.
I don't think I'll be getting a Hasselblad H as a travelling camera 
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
For hand held street work I have used my ZD camera with the 35 & 55-110 with great success. At the time I had a limited lens range for my 5D so I took the ZD. This image is a stitch from the ZD shot hand held during APEC @ iso 100 & 50.
[a href=\"http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=1&p=2]http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=1&p=2[/url]
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=7&p=2
Today I would use the 1DsMKIII but would still take the ZD since it is so light.  
Thanks Denis

[jimgolden]

i shoot H3 w/ 80mm handheld a lot, around 1/125 or 1/250 its almost always sharp. under 1/125, less so. you can program a mirror delay, cuts down on that slap. I have a RRS L plate (for vertical) and often use it on a monopod w/ the zoom, no problem. I dont find the ergonomics worse than the
mam 645. both are a different animal than the V tho...

for a walk around/travel camera I use a 5D w/ a 50mm + lowe slingpro bag - fits everyday junk plus camera+battery

[MarkKay]

I am somewhat surprised by some of the responses.  I have the 1DsmkIII and Hasselblad H3DII-31.  I find the Hasselblad to have better ergonomics.  I agree that with the 50-110mm, the Hasselblad can get heavy but with the 28, 50, or 100, I have no issue with handholding.  After using this camera for a period of time, it is hard for me to go back and handhold the canon.  However, I do use the camera often with a tripod when i do landscapes or macro shooting

[pprdigital]

I think much of "ergonomics" is subjective. Do you like buttons, or dials? On top or behind, etc.

In particular, "holding the camera" is definitely subjective. I've always found Canons, Nikons, (Mamiya/Contax) style of grips to feel tenuous to me. I think my hand is too big or fingers too long and I feel I'm not using my entire hand to hold the camera. The H3DII fits into my palm, which allows my fingers to have more of a grip. Also, I find the rest spot for the thumb and also for the index finger to help greatly in reducing stress from the wrist - especially with larger lenses. I can use my thumb and index finger to help grip, and this I find harder to do on other cameras.

This was always my biggest complaint with the Rollei 6008 - there was no adequate support for thumb/index fingers. I feel like I'm holding a coffee pot. The Hy6/AFi improves this significantly with a fuller grip and better nesting positions for the thumb/index fingers.

Regarding hand holding - I find the H3DII holds up better at low shutter speeds when hand held due to the slight dampening and verticalization of the mirror. I believe this is mostly due to the heat sink in the bottom of the digital magazine, which adds a bit of weight and (at least in my experience) acts to dampen the mirror and produce the effect more of a straight up and down mirror slap. On some H1/H2 cameras, the mirror slap sometimes feels almost like it slightly jerks sideways, rather than just an up and down effect.

As Paul mentioned, the mirror delay (custom function 31) can also help separate the mirror action form the actual shutter release. I would guess this has added up to a stop, stop and a half to my low light shooting. This is available for any H1/H2 camera, not just the H3DII.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital

[James R Russell]

I think much of "ergonomics" is subjective. Do you like buttons, or dials? On top or behind, etc.

In particular, "holding the camera" is definitely subjective. I've always found Canons, Nikons, (Mamiya/Contax) style of grips to feel tenuous to me. I think my hand is too big or fingers too long and I feel I'm not using my entire hand to hold the camera. The H3DII fits into my palm, which allows my fingers to have more of a grip. Also, I find the rest spot for the thumb and also for the index finger to help greatly in reducing stress from the wrist - especially with larger lenses. I can use my thumb and index finger to help grip, and this I find harder to do on other cameras.

This was always my biggest complaint with the Rollei 6008 - there was no adequate support for thumb/index fingers. I feel like I'm holding a coffee pot. The Hy6/AFi improves this significantly with a fuller grip and better nesting positions for the thumb/index fingers.

Regarding hand holding - I find the H3DII holds up better at low shutter speeds when hand held due to the slight dampening and verticalization of the mirror. I believe this is mostly due to the heat sink in the bottom of the digital magazine, which adds a bit of weight and (at least in my experience) acts to dampen the mirror and produce the effect more of a straight up and down mirror slap. On some H1/H2 cameras, the mirror slap sometimes feels almost like it slightly jerks sideways, rather than just an up and down effect.

As Paul mentioned, the mirror delay (custom function 31) can also help separate the mirror action form the actual shutter release. I would guess this has added up to a stop, stop and a half to my low light shooting. This is available for any H1/H2 camera, not just the H3DII.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Stevo,

Big hands huh?  Next you'll be bragging about your shoe size.

You know I've never understood the H series.  I think on paper it was ok, but everytime I looked through that wompy viewfinder will all the bends and felt that 12 guage mirror slap I just handed it back.

Also the focus fall off of those lenses looks linear to me, like somebody drew litle tv lines across the softer areas.  Maybe it's just me, who knows?

Yea, it's good they finally came up with a shutter delay and I guess welding a heat sink under it helps the balance, but a professional camera that looks like it was designed by the same folks that gave us the pacer and has a pop up flash, just kind of makes me think that somebody was watching too much kity, kitty when they designed it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love if the Contax had a few leaf shutter lenses and maybe, just a slightly more magnified prism, but when I work with the Contax and somebody around has an H it's like going from an old well made BMW to a Toyota.

Then again I have a small shoe size.

JR

[woof75]

Stevo,

Big hands huh?  Next you'll be bragging about your shoe size.

You know I've never understood the H series.  I think on paper it was ok, but everytime I looked through that wompy viewfinder will all the bends and felt that 12 guage mirror slap I just handed it back.

Also the focus fall off of those lenses looks linear to me, like somebody drew litle tv lines across the softer areas.  Maybe it's just me, who knows?

Yea, it's good they finally came up with a shutter delay and I guess welding a heat sink under it helps the balance, but a professional camera that looks like it was designed by the same folks that gave us the pacer and has a pop up flash, just kind of makes me think that somebody was watching too much kity, kitty when they designed it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love if the Contax had a few leaf shutter lenses and maybe, just a slightly more magnified prism, but when I work with the Contax and somebody around has an H it's like going from an old well made BMW to a Toyota.

Then again I have a small shoe size.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193161\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I've never got on with the ergonomics or the mirror slap of the H2, pity really because the fast snych could be useful now and again. I like my mamiya 645AFD.

[geesbert]

and not offering a vertical grip is making a few ostheopaths a bit wealthier. if i have to shoot vertical handheld for a day, i feel my shoulder is falling off. i am a whimp, though...

[jecxz]

I am somewhat surprised by some of the responses.  I have the 1DsmkIII and Hasselblad H3DII-31.  I find the Hasselblad to have better ergonomics.  I agree that with the 50-110mm, the Hasselblad can get heavy but with the 28, 50, or 100, I have no issue with handholding.  After using this camera for a period of time, it is hard for me to go back and handhold the canon.  However, I do use the camera often with a tripod when i do landscapes or macro shooting
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark, I stopped being surprised long ago... so many sheep following their leader's hatred for Hasselblad... most probably haven't spent more than a week using the very camera system and lenses they complain about.

[samuel_js]

Mark, I stopped being surprised long ago... so many sheep following their leader's hatred for Hasselblad... most probably haven't spent more than a week using the very camera system and lenses they complain about.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193174\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, I think this is a very empty way of defending the H series ergonomics. Maybe you can give us your personal opinion instead.  

[pprdigital]

Stevo,

Big hands huh?  Next you'll be bragging about your shoe size.

You know I've never understood the H series.  I think on paper it was ok, but everytime I looked through that wompy viewfinder will all the bends and felt that 12 guage mirror slap I just handed it back.

Also the focus fall off of those lenses looks linear to me, like somebody drew litle tv lines across the softer areas.  Maybe it's just me, who knows?

Yea, it's good they finally came up with a shutter delay and I guess welding a heat sink under it helps the balance, but a professional camera that looks like it was designed by the same folks that gave us the pacer and has a pop up flash, just kind of makes me think that somebody was watching too much kity, kitty when they designed it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love if the Contax had a few leaf shutter lenses and maybe, just a slightly more magnified prism, but when I work with the Contax and somebody around has an H it's like going from an old well made BMW to a Toyota.

Then again I have a small shoe size.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193161\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

James -

James, you should know that it's not bragging if it's true.  

I mean I don't know if there's been a more polarizing product - or even company - than Hasselblad and the H camera.

People seem to either hate it or love it. That being said, it typically outsold the next nearest competitor - usually Mamiya by anywhere from 3 - 4 to 1.

You may think it looks awful, but I don't think it quite approaches "Pacer" status...even the look of it has it attractors and detractors. Personally, I think it looks ok, I would prefer it in black, but it's kind of too late for that...

Regardless, it has been a very successful product in terms of sales. Whether people really like it or not, they sure do want to like it, based on the sales figures.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[jecxz]

Well, I think this is a very empty way of defending the H series ergonomics. Maybe you can give us your personal opinion instead. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193176\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Samuel, Thank you, honestly, thank you for saying what you said, because my response was not about the ergonomics but was more a quick reaction to the frequent negative comments about the H system by people who probably have never used it for more than a few hours. It's like camera racism (that's a joke guys)!

On ergonomics: going from Canon to H was odd at first; But it did not take long to get comfortable with the grip and holding the body. I'm comfortable hiking with it, shooting with it handheld and I believe it is like anything else, it takes time to get used to it. I too have the focus set to the User button; I have different profiles set up and can rapidly switch to them without moving my eye from the viewfinder--this I think is great. I love the bright viewfinder, perhaps not ergonomics, but it reduces the strain on my eyes. The 3" LCD is just fantastic. One thing I would like to see is a taller battey grip which would give me more/longer power and it may offer a longer grip base (but it won't sit on the table well). I also have an L bracket and shoot tripod mostly.  

Samuel, be well.