New Epson Printers

[Ernst Dinkla]

Maybe none at all... you don't waste any now "switching" from, say, red to yellow...

Oh but wait, I thought it would be just another channel.  Does it indeed share a head/channel?

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It probably shares a head only and has two separate channels to that head. 3800 style.
Probably a larger ink buffer in the head than the 3800 has so a bit more ink lost in the switch. If I recall it correctly a switch cycle PK>MK>PK is 6 ML on the 3800. Maybe something like 10-12 ML lost on this one.

I had a similar switch on an Epson 9000 quad. An extra CIS bottle with PK and tube + damper. The not in use damper parked on a stainless steel pin where the cutter used to be. It worked quite well. Printing some waste A3's to get rid of the ink in the damper and head.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[JeffKohn]

I'm a bit puzzled by the Green ink. The Epson gamut wasn't bad in Green so far and the R1800/R800 went for a Blue ink instead. Looks like a Pantone Hexachrome route to me without the name and again a more proof printer oriëntated switch to the gamut.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198920\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've always felt the Achilles heel of the Epson K3 inkset is dark greens. Maybe it's not an issue for some types of work, but loss of detail in dark greens has always been my biggest problem when printing landscape/nature images. And I've seen prints from the Canon IPFx100 that convinced me that line is definitely better in this regard.

[Mort54]

Availability is supposed to be late spring.  Sooner than I'd expected, though the increased competition may be a factor here.

That late spring comment came from an Australian review, so that might be late winter in the northern hemisphere.

[BernardLanguillier]

More like late fall actually.

Regards,
Bernard

[uaiomex]

Thanks Ernst:

That's what I thought. Some WASTED ink has to happen in order for a single head to share two different inks. Otherwise it wouldn't being an Epson!
I think I'm ready to upgrade my 7600 now. Too bad the glop was not yet.
Canon and Epson somehow share some of their bloodline, I think.  
Regards

Eduardo


 

It probably shares a head only and has two separate channels to that head. 3800 style.
Probably a larger ink buffer in the head than the 3800 has so a bit more ink lost in the switch. If I recall it correctly a switch cycle PK>MK>PK is 6 ML on the 3800. Maybe something like 10-12 ML lost on this one.

I had a similar switch on an Epson 9000 quad. An extra CIS bottle with PK and tube + damper. The not in use damper parked on a stainless steel pin where the cutter used to be. It worked quite well. Printing some waste A3's to get rid of the ink in the damper and head.
Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199014\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Mort54]

More like late fall actually.

Yes, you're right. Late fall would be the opposite of late spring. Dohhhhh :-)

[Sven W]

Thanks Ernst:

That's what I thought. Some WASTED ink has to happen in order for a single head to share two different inks. Otherwise it wouldn't being an Epson!
I think I'm ready to upgrade my 7600 now. Too bad the glop was not yet.
Canon and Epson somehow share some of their bloodline, I think. 
Regards

Eduardo
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199038\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No, they have two channels, one for Pk and one for Mk. No waist at all.
Same as for 11880.
And the on-board-spectro is going for a quite hefty price.
You can choose between diffferent combos. Ad the spectro later, if you want.
/Sven

[Ernst Dinkla]

No, they have two channels, one for Pk and one for Mk. No waist at all.
Same as for 11880.
And the on-board-spectro is going for a quite hefty price.
You can choose between diffferent combos. Ad the spectro later, if you want.
/Sven
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 11880 has 9 inks, 9 nozzle rows.
So for the 9900 11 heads (11 rows of nozzles actually) + 11 ink channels then ?
No time lost - no ink lost at the switch ?
 
The 9900 info says: Automatic switching of photo and matte black inks
The 3800 info says: The 9 individual ink cartridges include three black inks with automatic switching photo and matte black cartridges.
The 11880 info says: Automatic Real-time Black Ink Mode Switching
Printers can automatically utilize two different Black ink modes –
Photo Black or Matte Black.

My bet is on two channels but one head and time + ink lost at the switch. Nothing dramatic like on the old 44" models but in line with the 3800.

(edited) This site says:

[a href=\"http://dpnow.com/4923.html]http://dpnow.com/4923.html[/url]

Epson Stylus Pro 7900 and 9900 key features summary:
• 11-colour Epson UltraChrome™ HDR ink set, expanding UltraChrome™ K3 with Vivid Magenta by adding Orange and Green in 11 individual, high capacity 350ml or 700ml cartridges
• 10-channel Epson MicroPiezo TFP™ print head for accurate and reliable imaging with the highest image quality


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Farmer]

A few things:

The PK/MK switch is like the 3800, but with less ink cost.

There's no pricing on the spectro yet (nor on any aspect of the printers), so anyone claiming it's going for a "hefty" price is making it up :-).  It will be available with either UV filter or not as you choose (or you can get both).  The spectro can be removed from the holder (so you can swap if you get both, for example).  You can also change the backing plate from white to black as you want.

[neil snape]

A few things:

The PK/MK switch is like the 3800, but with less ink cost.

There's no pricing on the spectro yet (nor on any aspect of the printers), so anyone claiming it's going for a "hefty" price is making it up :-).  It will be available with either UV filter or not as you choose (or you can get both).  The spectro can be removed from the holder (so you can swap if you get both, for example).  You can also change the backing plate from white to black as you want.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199167\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Less ink cost by the cost per ml of the larger tanks?

I like the idea of a removable spectro, so one can re-certify the spectro, repairs would be easier, or swap them out as needed. Also the ability to change the backing would be as you prefer would be good , as Flexo proofing needs a different backing than most graphics art.

There is some confusion about the Z spectro in this regard. There is a calculation of focus and reflection done at spectro initialisation but is not the same thing as a black backing. This is at least what I was told when I questioned the notions of black backing. So long as the spectro stays on board there is no problem with the way this is done, but certainly if you can remove the spectro , even swap the filters there will be the need for a backing tile calibration for each change.

[andyheb]

Less ink cost by the cost per ml of the larger tanks?

Good enough for me

Any rumors out there about the 17" version of this line?

I'm trying to decide if I should go for a 3800 now or wait for the 4900.
Stupidly, I've already sold my 4800, but still have the HP B9180 here. But I will never be really happy with that one on matte papers (except for the deeper blacks).

[Ernst Dinkla]

Less ink cost by the cost per ml of the larger tanks?

I like the idea of a removable spectro, so one can re-certify the spectro, repairs would be easier, or swap them out as needed. Also the ability to change the backing would be as you prefer would be good , as Flexo proofing needs a different backing than most graphics art.

There is some confusion about the Z spectro in this regard. There is a calculation of focus and reflection done at spectro initialisation but is not the same thing as a black backing. This is at least what I was told when I questioned the notions of black backing. So long as the spectro stays on board there is no problem with the way this is done, but certainly if you can remove the spectro , even swap the filters there will be the need for a backing tile calibration for each change.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Neil,

More than a year ago I calculated ink cost per ML for several printer models. European market so in Euro and without VAT. The 3800 was then at 45 Eurocent a ML right now 46 Eurocent. I guess that the 350 and 700 ML carts could be a bit lower than that but the 11880 700 ML cart is at 28 Eurocents per ML right now. If it is based on a price like that the switch cycle PK>MK>PK would be something like 9.5 ML at most. Talking about 2.75 Euro for a cycle PK>MK>PK in ink cost. Maintenance tank cost not counted.

If I load two or three sheets of paper on top of one another in the Z3100 for calibration and profiling what is theoretically wrong in that approach given your last observation. I have done that with some thin papers as that used to be the way I did it with the old (but still correct) SpectroCam. Not yet with the APS version though.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[Nick Rains]

Hi Guys

Just got back from looking at the new 7990 at the PMA show in Brisbane. Prints looks great with the new inkset, the greens in particular look better as you'd expect.

Ink cost estimated to be slightly less than half what it works out at from the 110/220 carts, so similar to that of the 11880.

Expected to be available in October. I'm hoping to get my hands on one sometime before that with a bit of luck...

[Farmer]

Neil - less ink and less ink cost.

[neil snape]

Neil - less ink and less ink cost.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199246\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So it uses less ml of ink to do the switch than the 3800 print head?
How much does it use then, as the 3800 is 4.5 ml in one direction and 1.5 ml in the other.

[neil snape]

Neil,

More than a year ago I calculated ink cost per ML for several printer models. European market so in Euro and without VAT. The 3800 was then at 45 Eurocent a ML right now 46 Eurocent. I guess that the 350 and 700 ML carts could be a bit lower than that but the 11880 700 ML cart is at 28 Eurocents per ML right now. If it is based on a price like that the switch cycle PK>MK>PK would be something like 9.5 ML at most. Talking about 2.75 Euro for a cycle PK>MK>PK in ink cost. Maintenance tank cost not counted.


Yes I know that the cost per ml is cheaper with larger tanks. Yet I want to know how much ink is used per switch , if that is possible.

If I load two or three sheets of paper on top of one another in the Z3100 for calibration and profiling what is theoretically wrong in that approach given your last observation. I have done that with some thin papers as that used to be the way I did it with the old (but still correct) SpectroCam. Not yet with the APS version though.
Ernst Dinkla

There are advantages and disadvantages of absolute vs. a more relative reading. Depends on the way the software extrapolates the reflection values. There are other things that come into play like surface type, amount of diffusion, etc. We used to always put one or two layers on the DTP 41 too, but that is using hardware/software that doesn't use this type of spectro lens.

[digitaldog]

Every print for pay shop I know though also uses RIPs (Ergosoft, etc.) so that they can linearize their Epsons. If Epsons are that stable and consistent why do they feel the need to linearize their printers? Just curious.

That's not the reason for or anything close to the primary goal of a RIP although that's a capability some find useful.

You primarily implement a RIP because you have to deal with vector artwork, you want to handle CMYK data (which Quickdraw and GDI drivers like those from Epson can't handle), you want to deal with print queues, imposition etc. And that people use a RIP doesn't mean that this implies that the Epson printers are not consistent in behavior. The Epson driver, when using the No Color Adjustment setting could certainly be more linear (its been getting progressively better over the years).

The vast majority of readers here who wish to simply print out images have no need for a RIP.

[Roscolo]

So, you have to switch black inks on these or no? I don't mean wasted ink, etc. I mean print on glossy photo paper, and then make a print on matte paper, with no need to change anything other than paper selection.

[Farmer]

Roscolo - Both PK and MK are installed at the same time and will siwtch as required - you don't need to switch cartridges.

Neil - I hope to have those exact figures shortly.

[mmurph]

And the on-board-spectro is going for a quite hefty price.
You can choose between diffferent combos. Ad the spectro later, if you want.
/Sven

Sven,

Are the base units going to cost about the same as the 7880 and 9880?  About $3,000 and $5,000 US?

As far as the spectro, I think I paid about $1,500 US for my Eye One SG.  Is the Epson unit going to be in that price range? Any reason to buy it if I already have an i1?

Thanks!

Michael