Light system for a new studio

[James D]

Hi

I have a studio with a large infinity cove – 12m wide by 5m high by 10m deep – and I want to set it up as a good commercial space for hire.

To launch I need a strong, flexible light system that can handle most pro needs. I can build it up later if things go well.

I’m working to the following plan – all Profoto. It would be great to hear from people experienced in studio work, particularly using Profoto gear. Is this is a good way to go ... ?


LIGHTS

3 x Pro-B2 1200 Generator                
3 x Pro-7a 2400                  
6 x Head to pac extension cables for 7a 2400s      
3 x ProHead UV 500W               
3 x Pro-B head                   
3 x Magnum reflectors with grids          
3 x Softlight reflectors white 65 – (beauty dish)      
1 x Profoto 7ft reflector                
2 x Softbox 2x4RF               
2 x Softbox 1 x 6RF               
1 x Snoot                  
1 x Honey comb grid 25               
4 x Umbrella white medium            
4 x Umbrella silver medium            
4 x Speedring                   

Stands and accessories ...

1 x Double wind up for 7ft reflector             
10 x Manfrotto Master stands               
1 x Background support system with crossbar       
4 x C-stands with arms (Arri or Manfrotto) for flags       
? x ND filters ... (lee filters)                
4 x Super clamps (manf)               
4 x spiggot (manf)                  
1 x Boom – manfrotto – with stand on wheels       
Sandbags
Spring clips
Black back cloth
Pac Cases
Flags


Right now the following don’t make the list. This includes the Pro-Twin head - I figure I’d need at least two and maybe up to four to freeze sports etc. - which pushes my budget too far. And I dropped a ProRing too ...

1 x D4 generator                   
1 x Pro-7s                     
1 x ProTwin head                  
1 x ProRing + Spotlight reflector             
2 x Softbox 2x2RF                  
2 x Softbox 3x4RF                  
2 x Softbox 1x4RF                  
1 x Light table

[Streetwise]

Profoto is #1 in the Equipment Rental arena. Durability is very good and would be well suited to a studio co-op as you're proposing. As far as consistency of output, there's better equipment out there, but at a price. I think Profoto would be the way to go.

The only other thing is that you'll want more than 10 light stands I would imagine. Doesn't have to be more Master Stands, but smaller ones for flags, scrims, etc.  You can never have enough grip.

Good Luck!

Dave

[flashfredrikson]

Hey James,
when I need a studio I always rent and always use profoto (and briese), I think that's the right choice. But I personally and also my assistants hate those 7a packs, I'd rather get more 7s ones. And what do you need 7Bs in a studio for? Did you know you can also use the normal Pro Heads with the battery packs, without modelling light though, but that mod light is useless most of the time I think as it is much too dim.
And if you have the cash, get a briese focus instead of that profoto 7 foot ;-)
For softboxes I would always go with chimera instead of profoto.

just my 2 (euro)cents
martin

[James D]

Good to hear Profoto is on target for the the rental sector, which backs up my research. For the time being Briese is pushing the spend too far and I'd rather have a consistent set up.

Flash: I took advice that the 7a can produce more or less identical light output from two heads so that in short ... the 7a can do what the 7s does, but the 7s can't do what the &a does; i.e asymmetrical light. The B2s are for people taking gear out on location, but the idea is those could double up for back up lights in the studio as well. I think having portable gear will be useful in my location. I will check out chimera softboxes

Street: take your point about the stands and will check on that.

Thanks guys!

[James R Russell]

Hi

I have a studio with a large infinity cove – 12m wide by 5m high by 10m deep – and I want to set it up as a good commercial space for hire.

To launch I need a strong, flexible light system that can handle most pro needs. I can build it up later if things go well.

I’m working to the following plan – all Profoto. It would be great to hear from people experienced in studio work, particularly using Profoto gear. Is this is a good way to go ... ?
LIGHTS

3 x Pro-B2 1200 Generator     
3 x Pro-7a 2400     
6 x Head to pac extension cables for 7a 2400s 
3 x ProHead UV 500W       
3 x Pro-B head         
3 x Magnum reflectors with grids   
3 x Softlight reflectors white 65 – (beauty dish) 
1 x Profoto 7ft reflector     
2 x Softbox 2x4RF       
2 x Softbox 1 x 6RF       
1 x Snoot     
1 x Honey comb grid 25       
4 x Umbrella white medium   
4 x Umbrella silver medium   
4 x Speedring         

Stands and accessories ...

1 x Double wind up for 7ft reflector       
10 x Manfrotto Master stands       
1 x Background support system with crossbar     
4 x C-stands with arms (Arri or Manfrotto) for flags     
? x ND filters ... (lee filters)     
4 x Super clamps (manf)       
4 x spiggot (manf)     
1 x Boom – manfrotto – with stand on wheels     
Sandbags
Spring clips
Black back cloth
Pac Cases
Flags
Right now the following don’t make the list. This includes the Pro-Twin head - I figure I’d need at least two and maybe up to four to freeze sports etc. - which pushes my budget too far. And I dropped a ProRing too ...

1 x D4 generator         
1 x Pro-7s         
1 x ProTwin head     
1 x ProRing + Spotlight reflector       
2 x Softbox 2x2RF     
2 x Softbox 3x4RF     
2 x Softbox 1x4RF     
1 x Light table
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Profoto, especially Pro 7's are the standard of the industry in most of the U.S. and though every rental studio in NY and elsewhere offer pro 7's I generally use actues as I am always dialing pro 7's way, way down and rarely run the actues past 1/2 power and the cost differential is substantial.

Since your running a rental space you need to add more grip, especially large rolling stands 12x silks (rags), 12x black outs (dubos), and 12x solid whites, shot bags, sand bags, apple crates, clamps, spun, cinefoil should all be twice what you think you could ever use.  Avenger square tube frames are the most robust and easiest to set up, store and transport.

For location I would add two honda 2000 generators.  

Also multiple magliners, or some of the other carts for camera and digital stations, (though magliners are the standard).

You list of modifiers should also expand with grids, beauty dishes (and grids), smaller to huge soft modifers, octabanks, etc.

The Honda 2000's are really the deal of the century.   We can run an acute on high power outside along with a digital station and they are flawless.  They will run two 1k tungstens also.

Your rental studio should have two dedicated wireless systems for uploads, (one to a hardline), a large distro box, and heavy duty stingers (extension cords).

Rental is a different mind set than just what you would personally use as 1/4 of what you offer will probably be in repair, or need some form of repair, (talk to any rental company), so extra tubes, modeling lights, heads, fuses, should fill a shelf.

If you have a local rental source you may want to cut a deal to rent from them at a discount, which is common practice in most major markets.

You can never have too much grip equipment.

JR

[paulmoorestudio]

I like matthews c stands, and I'd say you need a few more they get used up quick.. I am a broncolor guy so I won't comment on the profoto besides saying it is great stuff..but if you are renting this out a la carte, I would find a way to work in the ringlight and large para.. that  is what people are using and would like to use... and it is nice not to have to bring your own or from some other rental house..
let them bring in more power and heads.. but you will recoup your costs quicker with stuff people want to use.. and if it is there in the corner, it is hard for the photographer to ignore it.
just another take on it.

[godtfred]

For softboxes I would always go with chimera instead of profoto.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189650\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

+1 on this, my chimera softboxes outlast profoto's, and have a better mounting ring.

[NBP]

You can never have too much grip equipment.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189674\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Absolutely. 100%

I think I actually rate studios on this point more than anything else.
If I find that past two polyboards, I have to start using chairs to prop them up (US based folk, you should see the state of some places in London - you couldn't make it up, seriously) then I'm sure as hell not going back.

[condit79]

I agree what others have said about more grip, flags, cinefoil, honeycomb grids and a couple more octos.  And grids for the softboxes.   being able to control how the light reflects around will be huge as well.  Are you going to have onsite computers (a pair of tricked out macpros, monitors, etc)?

[geesbert]

and every generator need a pocketwizard, build in or external...

[Streetwise]

For location I would add two honda 2000 generators. 

The Honda 2000's are really the deal of the century.   We can run an acute on high power outside along with a digital station and they are flawless.  They will run two 1k tungstens also.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189674\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tell me more about the Honda's... Are you referring to the eu2000i? When you talk about running an acute on high power, how many heads are you talking about? Sounds interesting....

Dave

[TMARK]

All of the above advice is great.  

Chimera is the way to go.  Long lasting.  They feel like quality.

Get Pro7s packs, some 1200 some 2400. I rarely use two heads asymetrically.  I usually don't need 2400 watts out of one head anyway.  

Pro 7 heads fit the B2, so no need to get the B heads.  Get a few Elinchrom Octas.  

I would avoid the Profoto Giants, or at least wait until the new ones are out.  I've never met anyone who really likes them.  I liked the 5ft because it has some punch. (KLANE: if you are reading I'm still looking for the frames!).  

I second James' recommendation of Acutes and the E2000i put-put. The Honda runs all day on less than a gallon and powers everything, evan the AD's cellphone charger.

Grip equipment:  Get lots of knuckles, get Avenger or MSE (I like MSE).  For transport and storage and flexibility, make sure get plenty of turtle bases, 20" and 40" stands, baby pins etc.  This way you can store the turtle bases folded in a box and have max flexibility in terms of C-Stand length.  Get a Crank-O-Vator,  Plenty of hollywood arms.  All types of flags and scrims, silks, black and white book ends . . . It never ends, really.  Booms:  Yes, you need a boom or two.

Get a Multicart or two (R10 or R12 with the deck system), a Magliner or two, computers, etc.  

This whole thing is making my head hurt.  I own most of this crap and will say that it has held its value better than any piece of digital camera equipment I've ever owned.  I will also say that all this crap has more bearing on the quality of the final image than the camera used to shoot it.  Funny, huh?  We don't have a forum dedicated to the best grid cloth manufacture (Lighttools) or who makes the better C-Stand (MSE), yet all this grip and lighting equipment is what makes or breaks a shoot.

[paul_jones]

All of the above advice is great. 

Chimera is the way to go.  Long lasting.  They feel like quality.

Get Pro7s packs, some 1200 some 2400. I rarely use two heads asymetrically.  I usually don't need 2400 watts out of one head anyway. 

Pro 7 heads fit the B2, so no need to get the B heads.  Get a few Elinchrom Octas. 

I would avoid the Profoto Giants, or at least wait until the new ones are out.  I've never met anyone who really likes them.  I liked the 5ft because it has some punch. (KLANE: if you are reading I'm still looking for the frames!). 

I second James' recommendation of Acutes and the E2000i put-put. The Honda runs all day on less than a gallon and powers everything, evan the AD's cellphone charger.

Grip equipment:  Get lots of knuckles, get Avenger or MSE (I like MSE).  For transport and storage and flexibility, make sure get plenty of turtle bases, 20" and 40" stands, baby pins etc.  This way you can store the turtle bases folded in a box and have max flexibility in terms of C-Stand length.  Get a Crank-O-Vator,  Plenty of hollywood arms.  All types of flags and scrims, silks, black and white book ends . . . It never ends, really.  Booms:  Yes, you need a boom or two.

Get a Multicart or two (R10 or R12 with the deck system), a Magliner or two, computers, etc. 

This whole thing is making my head hurt.  I own most of this crap and will say that it has held its value better than any piece of digital camera equipment I've ever owned.  I will also say that all this crap has more bearing on the quality of the final image than the camera used to shoot it.  Funny, huh?  We don't have a forum dedicated to the best grid cloth manufacture (Lighttools) or who makes the better C-Stand (MSE), yet all this grip and lighting equipment is what makes or breaks a shoot.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189861\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i agree about getting more pro-7 1200 packs. the flash duration is quite a lot faster and they dial down more.

paul

[James D]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

One small extra detail is that I’m setting this up in Asia, where almost nothing you’re recommending can be bought, viewed or tested. And being here, there aren’t rental houses for people to turn to for extra gear, or for me to try and make a deal re: accessories. Thanks James, I know that’s an established model in major markets, but this isn’t one of them! So I’ll need to import, and for that I have to balance costs for one initial spend against being able to meet the widest possible range of needs.
 
I’m interested to see you guys highlight the 7s over the 7a as the US industry standard, which is my template. I want to offer a standard western service for shooters here, or coming here. Could anyone add to why the 7s is a better way to go? The 7a can deliver symmetrical and asymmetrical light output, while the 7s is symmetrical only. So what’s advantageous there? TMARK you said you rarely use two heads asymmetrically, and usually don't need 2400 watts out of one head.

This also links to the ProTwin. Profoto badges the 7s ‘the ideal partner to the ProTwin’ for super short flash duration ... but I thought I’d need several ProTwin’s for sports or other action shots. And that to get max power out of one ProTwin you need to plug in two generators. That right? Or is one ProTwin worth going for? Likewise the ringlight, which Paul says people are using and want ... ? Thanks Paul, you hit the nail on the head - I need the stuff people want to use.

Among loads of great advice – and I 100% get the point that the more grip stuff the better – you said James that you get a lot of use out of acute’s. Given that for rental I’m gonna need so many modifiers, spares and all kinds of offerings like wireless uploading, saving money on acute’s is very attractive. But acute generators only accept acute heads, so I’d need to mix in heads that only work for those and not 7-series generators.

My thinking has been that acute’s would look limiting to users, and not rent well or help the studio, so there’d be no point in mixing up the heads system. I am wrong? Could you or anyone say more about where acute’s fit into your lighting needs? I did look at prioritizing a really strong range of accessories, modifers and grips etc. by starting with a cheaper, all acute lights system. With yet more spending I haven’t mentioned - pocket wizards / an imac workstation – this still appeals!

You and TMARK also both highlighted the Honda generator. You’re recommending those to power generators on location, rather than using battery pacs like the B2? If I stay with the Pro generator system, but dropped or cut back on B2s, how about the Profoto AcuteB 600R for light location work?

Finally:

1 - TMARK you and others recommend Chimera – is this a very big deal? I’ll need to make a big profoto order and it’s gonna get really complex ordering too many different brands to fit together.  

2 - Likewise Elinchrom ...their octa’s fir Pro 7 heads?

3 - TMARK, on heads I listed B heads because I should get these free with B2 pacs. Otherwise they’re unnecessary?

4 - Profoto Giants ... no one likes them? What’s the options if I have Profoto heads?


Thanks! A lot of questions but from the work I do, and where I’m sitting on this project, I agree with TMARK that this stuff really counts. There isn’t a forum dedicated to light tools and all you’re input is very helpful and much appreciated.

J

[Dansk]

1 - TMARK you and others recommend Chimera – is this a very big deal? I’ll need to make a big profoto order and it’s gonna get really complex ordering too many different brands to fit together.

2 - Likewise Elinchrom ...their octa’s fir Pro 7 heads?

Chimera is the leader on sb's

2. Yes you can get an adapter plater from profoto and mod the Elinchrome octa to fit. It requires taking the mount apart and modding the adapter ring to fit slightly but its pretty easily done.


I need more grip.... blah never enough... so true

[TMARK]

the octa profoto adapter is a rod that attaches to the elinchrom mounting plate. No destructive modification required, not even a screw driver.

The s heads have faster flash duration, and the 1200 dials down farther than the 2400. I use, for the most part 1 pack per head.

About the B heads, if they are free that is cool! You could also sell them to finance more pro heads.

What do I use when I want a soft yet punchy, focused light?  I rent a bron para or briese focus, or " make my own" by mixing an octa or a silk and hard point sources like the zoom reflectors on standard profoto heads. I learned that from a cinematographer. Works really well but takes lots of time and grip equipment.

Perhaps you could check out what the big NYC and LA studios rent? Pier 59, Splashlight, Smasbox.

[levinson]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

One small extra detail is that I’m setting this up in Asia, where almost nothing you’re recommending can be bought, viewed or tested. And being here, there aren’t rental houses for people to turn to for extra gear, or for me to try and make a deal re: accessories. Thanks James, I know that’s an established model in major markets, but this isn’t one of them! So I’ll need to import, and for that I have to balance costs for one initial spend against being able to meet the widest possible range of needs.
 
I’m interested to see you guys highlight the 7s over the 7a as the US industry standard, which is my template. I want to offer a standard western service for shooters here, or coming here. Could anyone add to why the 7s is a better way to go? The 7a can deliver symmetrical and asymmetrical light output, while the 7s is symmetrical only. So what’s advantageous there? TMARK you said you rarely use two heads asymmetrically, and usually don't need 2400 watts out of one head.

This also links to the ProTwin. Profoto badges the 7s ‘the ideal partner to the ProTwin’ for super short flash duration ... but I thought I’d need several ProTwin’s for sports or other action shots. And that to get max power out of one ProTwin you need to plug in two generators. That right? Or is one ProTwin worth going for? Likewise the ringlight, which Paul says people are using and want ... ? Thanks Paul, you hit the nail on the head - I need the stuff people want to use.

Among loads of great advice – and I 100% get the point that the more grip stuff the better – you said James that you get a lot of use out of acute’s. Given that for rental I’m gonna need so many modifiers, spares and all kinds of offerings like wireless uploading, saving money on acute’s is very attractive. But acute generators only accept acute heads, so I’d need to mix in heads that only work for those and not 7-series generators.

My thinking has been that acute’s would look limiting to users, and not rent well or help the studio, so there’d be no point in mixing up the heads system. I am wrong? Could you or anyone say more about where acute’s fit into your lighting needs? I did look at prioritizing a really strong range of accessories, modifers and grips etc. by starting with a cheaper, all acute lights system. With yet more spending I haven’t mentioned - pocket wizards / an imac workstation – this still appeals!

You and TMARK also both highlighted the Honda generator. You’re recommending those to power generators on location, rather than using battery pacs like the B2? If I stay with the Pro generator system, but dropped or cut back on B2s, how about the Profoto AcuteB 600R for light location work?

Finally:

1 - TMARK you and others recommend Chimera – is this a very big deal? I’ll need to make a big profoto order and it’s gonna get really complex ordering too many different brands to fit together. 

2 - Likewise Elinchrom ...their octa’s fir Pro 7 heads?

3 - TMARK, on heads I listed B heads because I should get these free with B2 pacs. Otherwise they’re unnecessary?

4 - Profoto Giants ... no one likes them? What’s the options if I have Profoto heads?
Thanks! A lot of questions but from the work I do, and where I’m sitting on this project, I agree with TMARK that this stuff really counts. There isn’t a forum dedicated to light tools and all you’re input is very helpful and much appreciated.

J
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Where in Asia will you set it up? I know that Broncolor is available in most Asian countries.

[Jason F]

2 - Likewise Elinchrom ...their octa’s fir Pro 7 heads?

There is an Elinchrom-to-Profoto ring you can buy for around $50 and use it to mount your Profoto heads in the Octabank. I personally like that method much more than the "umbrella style" adaptor.

[TMARK]

There is an Elinchrom-to-Profoto ring you can buy for around $50 and use it to mount your Profoto heads in the Octabank. I personally like that method much more than the "umbrella style" adaptor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190007\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the ring adapter is $130.00 as opposed to $60.00 for the brolly type adapter. I have both and have no preference.

[David Anderson]

Profoto softboxes are rubbish - the lining in mine started to peel away very quickly, by the time they were out of warranty they were stuffed and the best the Australian importer here would do for me is a crap discount on a new one because Profoto wouldn't sell just the lining.

I also waited 3 months for a replacement arm for a 5 footer.

My Chimera's on the other hand are 12 years old and still good as new.

Have a look at Bron or Elincrom.