live view

[geesbert]

Why is live view so pathetic with digibacks? not only do you have to pay a lot to get that feature, the quality of the preview you get is ridiculous. i am currently testing my way through all back makers, but what i have seen from phase and sinar was laughable. the colour is crap and the refresh rate makes it close to unusable. compare that to a canon 1ds3. it is a great feature for anyone shooting tethered with camera or lens movements, but not the way it is shown in digibacks.

[geesbert]

http://www.zigview.co.uk/


Better Option?

[Streetwise]

I hear you with regard to the Sinar's live preview. However, I think you can buy some type of an "upgrade" that makes the refresh rates better. The shop that I worked for had the 54H back. The live video out of the box seemed like it was about a frame per second. We just turned the color off all together and used black and white. Much easier on the eyes.

Personally, I have a Leaf Aptus back. The live preview on it is really good and usable for sure. Maybe not up to  par with the DSLR's, but very good for what I do.

[John_Black]

Just speculating - CCD chips use more power than CMOS, more power generally translates into more heat.  More heat = more noise, so the back makers are probably walking a delicate line between offer the utility of live view vs the implications on image quality due to higher sensor temperature.

[samuel_js]

The 1ds III LV compared to the Nikon D3 is also crap... Anyway, the LV in DB is more of a marketing thing. I don't think a lot of mf photographers actually use it. My P21's live view is absolutely usable, but I don't need it. MF cameras usually have a good viewfinder already.

[geesbert]

adjusting a still setup is so much easier with live view when i can look at a big screen, rather than either constantly switching my position between viefinder and setup or telling my assistant or stylist to move things ('please move the third fry from the left, second row from bottom...no, the next one...next one...no the one before... my left, not yours...').

it is a tool i never thought i would use, but now i want it!

leaf is the next back maker i am going to look at...

[snickgrr]

Back in the day, the photographer I assisted for...this was maybe 1985 or so, walked in one day and said, "Mount this video camera upside down and point it at the groundglass and feed it to a TV"  And thus was born the view camera live preview. It became totally indispensable.  A million things became instantly easier and better...small cards behind glasses of wine could be done by one person rather than two, hand shots were a revelation for the hand model.  He/she could watch the monitor and the photographer would point and say "move that finger an 1/8 inch" and boom it was done.  It truly was revolutionary and the concept swept the San Francisco photo scene.  Can't really say if the man I was assisting for invented it but I hadn't seen nor heard of before that.  Sinar came out with a convoluted and very expensive solution after that.
He shot TV adverts and the cameras at that time had video so he may have gotten the idea from that or maybe a simultaneous invention thing happened.

Now with digital it's not as important since what does it cost to hit the shutter and walk to the monitor but it is still very very valuable.

[JDG]

I have tried the Leaf and Phase and though both were adequate considering that the CCD's were never intended to produce video.   I found with both that the key is getting the proper amount of light be adjusting the lights and aperture... only then should you make adjustments to gain and refresh rate.  If you have too much light or too little light reaching the CCD the image was terrible, but right n the middle its pretty good.

[JDG]

I have tried the Leaf and Phase and though both were adequate considering that the CCD's were never intended to produce video.   I found with both that the key is getting the proper amount of light be adjusting the lights and aperture... only then should you make adjustments to gain and refresh rate.  If you have too much light or too little light reaching the CCD the image was terrible, but right n the middle its pretty good.

[pprdigital]

The 1ds III LV compared to the Nikon D3 is also crap... Anyway, the LV in DB is more of a marketing thing. I don't think a lot of mf photographers actually use it. My P21's live view is absolutely usable, but I don't need it. MF cameras usually have a good viewfinder already.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176002\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

We have quite a number of users who utilize the Live Video and consider it essential. While it's not perfect, these CCD sensors were not designed for it. The advantages for Live Video include the fact you are seeing exactly what the sensor sees, as it is focused directly on the chip. This reduces variances in focus from view finders, mirrors, lens elements, bodies being out of calibration.

It's also a much larger image on your monitor than in your view finder. For some applications, this is a great enhancement. It also works well with stylists at the food tabel and clients at the monitor -" No, move it right there, perfect", without having to take a shot. Some clients really get into it. It's just another way to offer value-add or differentiate yourself from your competitors. You can also use Live Video as a real-time compositional tool as most of the MFDB's allow for overlay into the Live View window.

I've always liked Live Video when using a view camera. For many who are used to a ground glass though, it's an adjustment, particularly the pace and your ability to make movement adjustments faster when looking through ground glass. But I've found once a photographer gets used to that slight delay, they become very fond of the Live Video. It's hard to not get used to focusing with a 30" full screen live feed instead of a 2.5" piece of ground glass.

Sinar is the only MFDB player offering Live Video that, when combined with the Sinar LC Shutter, auto-exposes and does not suffer from the flare of over-exposure which Phase One, Hasselblad, and Leaf are prone to. You can compensate for that somewhat by adjusting the aperture, utilizing ND/Polarizer filters, etc. But in un-controlled light situations, it is a challenge.

One other note - when you buy a Leaf AFi, you do not need to purchase the Leaf Live Video USB Key if you want Live Video, it works without it.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

[AndrewDyer]

I am using Live view with the Aptus 22 on a Sinar P, and would hate not to have the option.
Not only do you get the image on a large monitor (if you have one) but being able to zoom into the part of the image at 100% to achieve incredible focus control and image sharpness is just great.
There is on way I could get that as easily with a loop on ground glass.
It would be nice if the image was in colour but not at all essential for focussing, as it is the
luminosity values that show the sharpness of the image, not so much the colour.
The refresh rate is quite good too... I dont know what the speed is but is quite a few times per second.
My only gripe is that it is not free... I personally think that for the price of the digital back, it should be... but it is worth it anyhow.
A

[HarperPhotos]

Gidday,

The only issue I have with Live Video with my Leaf Aptus 75 is when I am using my Dedos and my Rodenstock lens is wide open the image blows out and I have the video exposure as low as possible.

Cheers

Simon

[pixjohn]

I use the live video on almost every shot. The live video on my Aptus 75 is not the best  quality but works 100% to check focus. I am happy to at least have the poor quality over no video.  I look forward to upgrades Leaf has talked about sometime in the near future. The hardest thing is to explain to my clients why the video is such poor quality.

The 1ds III LV compared to the Nikon D3 is also crap... Anyway, the LV in DB is more of a marketing thing. I don't think a lot of mf photographers actually use it. My P21's live view is absolutely usable, but I don't need it. MF cameras usually have a good viewfinder already.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176002\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[pixjohn]

Simons, that's any easy fix just put a piece of 4x lighting ND over the lens during live video. I use 2 4nd over the lens to use outdoor.

Gidday,

The only issue I have with Live Video with my Leaf Aptus 75 is when I am using my Dedos and my Rodenstock lens is wide open the image blows out and I have the video exposure as low as possible.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[HarperPhotos]

Simons, that's any easy fix just put a piece of 4x lighting ND over the lens during live video. I use 2 4nd over the lens to use outdoor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks John,

Will do, but I do think that I shouldn't have to use a ND filter in the first place.

Cheers

Simon

[pixjohn]

Leaf also told me they have plans for a wider dynamic range with live video.

Thanks John,

Will do, but I do think that I shouldn't have to use a ND filter in the first place.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176092\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[HarperPhotos]

Leaf also told me they have plans for a wider dynamic range with live video.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176121\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi John,

That's fantastic.

I was told by Leaf that are looking to expand there time expose from 30sec to one to two minutes with a soft wear up date in the future.

Which will be great when I do Light Brushing.

Cheers

Simon

[pixjohn]

I heard nothing regarding extending time exposure, but its not much of an issue for me.

Hi John,

That's fantastic.

I was told by Leaf that are looking to expand there time expose from 30sec to one to two minutes with a soft wear up date in the future.

Which will be great when I do Light Brushing.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176123\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[snickgrr]

Simon,
When you say Light Brushing, do you mean painting with light ala with something like the Hosemaster?
http://www.calumetphoto.com/Lighting/Continuous/Hosemaster/

Haven't heard of anyone using it in quite some time.  So you're doing it in the capture phase and not in postproduction?
Paul

Hi John,

That's fantastic.

I was told by Leaf that are looking to expand there time expose from 30sec to one to two minutes with a soft wear up date in the future.

Which will be great when I do Light Brushing.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176123\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[HarperPhotos]

Simon,
When you say Light Brushing, do you mean painting with light ala with something like the Hosemaster?
http://www.calumetphoto.com/Lighting/Continuous/Hosemaster/

Haven't heard of anyone using it in quite some time.  So you're doing it in the capture phase and not in postproduction?
Paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176209\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Paul,

I use a product called The Light FX Light Painting System which a bought about 15 years ago.

Now with Digital I am using the Light Brush a lot more as you get the image straight away instead of countless Polaroids and then doing it all again on Trannie film.

Unfortunately I have to use my Nikon D2x to do Light Brushing at the moment cause my Leaf Aptus 75 can only do 30 seconds.

Cheers

Simon