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Author Topic: Stop Misspelling "Losing" as "Loosing"!!!  (Read 160063 times)

jjj

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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2008, 06:32:57 am »

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Funny, last time I was in Britain (about 5-10 years ago), all the restaurant menus had "lemon juice" (in addition to "lemonade"), and I never once saw "lemon squash".  Did something change recently, or was I just in peculiar and confused restaurants?

Based on my experiences in Britain at the time, I made the following observations:
(1) British "lemonade" = American "lemon-lime soda" (or "lemon-lime pop")
(2) British "lemon juice" = American "lemonade"
(3) British ??? = American "lemon juice" (straight out of the lemon)

So you're saying my observation #2 is no longer true?  (Or ever was?)

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Menu descriptions are not what one would use to judge correct names of things as it depends which part of the world the restaurant is trying to emulate, sometimes several at once and assuming the menu is even written correctly as I doubt drichi was ever asked to proof!  

Orange Juice/Apple Juice/Tomato Juice is normally the juice of the fruit. We don't usually drink Lemon Juice in that manner and would normally ask for Lemon squash/cordial, but it's a far less commonly drunk cordial compared to orange and blackcurrent squash. Can't say I ever recall seeing Lemon Juice on a menu, though cordials may well be listed under Juices, where juices then simply means soft drinks as opposed to alchoholic drinks. Menus can be a bit vague about such things.
British lemonade is Lemon pop [soda] not a lemon-lime pop, like 7Up.

Actually even some idiot bar staff in the UK get confused when you ask for orange squash rather than cordial, so I wouldn't worry  too much about it. Cordial is simply the posh/grown-up word for squash.
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jjj

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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2008, 06:51:49 am »

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Haven't you got, at least in Great Britain, something like our French Academy (or may I write Academia?) (in French in the text, Académie Française - sorry, this time I feel compelled to include french caracters), who is the one & only voice of authority when it comes to grammar and spelling?[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ha ha ha ha ha hah ha ha ha ha ha ha.          
Errr, no!


Languages change constantly, the idea of an Academy to preserve a language is barking mad. Language is culture, culture changes and trying to pretend otherwise is a bt foolish. It's the literary equivalent of the Maginot Line.
Besides if the French wanted to be speak 'proper' French then they should adopt Quebecois French as that is truer to 'traditional' French, than modern French is. Just like when people in the UK complain about others using Americanisms, not realising quite a lot of them are actually truer to old English than our current English is. Anyway 'English is a Germanic language with a load of French and many, many other foreign words chucked in [ e.g. algebra, alchohol, assassin - all Arabic] . This was nicely illustrated by the wise man who rules America, who is supposed to have uttered the brilliant phrase - "The French, they don't even have a word for entrepeneur" as a way of mocking the French.
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Rob C

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« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2008, 06:57:30 am »

The problem is that it does matter whether or not the language is corrupted. The reason it matters is that language is about communication and if one is to accept a constant flow of fresh corruptions, then the only outcome must be even greater lack of common and accurate understanding.

Part of the trouble here is that the modern media is more or less based on the notion of the lowest common denominator, creating a self-perpetuating cycle of wave upon wave of ever newer slang heaped upon the previous popular verbal craze. In Britain, at least, there was a time when conversations inevitably gave rise to the articulation of at least one current (then) catch-phrase, usually coined by a scriptwriter to give some sad comedian a personality hook, something that might, just might, make him/her seem slightly different from the rest of the tribe.

This corruption currently extends to English teachers too - I have crossed swords with friends who consider alright to be acceptable; how, then, can such teachers provide sound principles for their students in the very discipline they presume to teach?

Insofar as the French example is concerned, I see little wrong with any attempt to protect the language. There is no need whatsoever for a French person to find it necessary to refer to le weekend as French provides perfect alternatives of its own. If it were not bad enough using slang from within one´s own language, the use or importation of even more remote words from the current waves of immigrants crossing borders almost at will bodes even worse for the future.

People counter this perception by making reference to Shakespeare or even Chaucer and saying that if change were not good, we would still be speaking and writing in the manner of the two aforementioned gentlemen. Well, if we were, then it would be the norm and we would still all understand one another; I believe that English has reached a very high plateau, a level beyond which it has no reason to attempt to climb. The only new words that need be fed into the language are, in my opinion, those that have to be created in the service of new technology, where existing words do not fit the bill.

Considering that such a high proportion of school kids fails to leave school with any worthwhile qualifications, even the ability to read and write, it seems strange to imagine that further complication of language will ever help to remedy the situation.

But then, it is the popular culture so attractive to that very group of zero-achievers that gets so much exposure, that perpetuates the problem...

Rob C

GregW

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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2008, 08:22:40 am »

The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) is a de-facto standard but reflects rather than protects the use of English today.

"The Oxford English Dictionary is the accepted authority on the evolution of the English language over the last millennium. It is an unsurpassed guide to the meaning, history, and pronunciation of over half a million words, both present and past. It traces the usage of words through 2.5 million quotations from a wide range of international English language sources, from classic literature and specialist periodicals to film scripts and cookery books."*

And from the online version (Compact Oxford English Dictionary)**

matt
(also matte)

  • adjective not shiny; dull and flat.

  • noun 1 a matt colour, paint, or finish. 2 a sheet of cardboard placed on the back of a picture, as a mount or to form a border.

  — ORIGIN French mat.


*[span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']http://www.oed.com/ About the Oxford English Dictionary.  http://www.oed.com/about/ Retreived on 2008-01-25[/span]
**[span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']http://www.askoxford.com/ Ask Oxford http://www.askoxford.com/ Retrieved on 2008-01-25[/span]
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 08:23:54 am by GregW »
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NikoJorj

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« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2008, 08:33:42 am »

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Languages change constantly, the idea of an Academy to preserve a language is barking mad. Language is culture, culture changes and trying to pretend otherwise is a bt foolish. It's the literary equivalent of the Maginot Line.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169430\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not really... or what's the point to argue against misspellings?  
It's the task of the Academie to frame the evolution of the language, and not to stop it, of course. Yes, of course too, they're doomed to be a bit late...
It's more like the "skyline blue" color of the french army's 1914-1915 uniforms, to stay around that kind of comparison.


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This was nicely illustrated by the wise man who rules America, who is supposed to have uttered the brilliant phrase - "The French, they don't even have a word for entrepreneur" as a way of mocking the French.
Another occasion to exercise my english : that's brilliant, if it has not been proved wrong!    Hadn't he cheated, we would laugh a good deal less than we do.
Am I correct?
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jjj

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Stop Misspelling "Losing" as "Loosing"!!!
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2008, 09:03:37 am »

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The problem is that it does matter whether or not the language is corrupted. The reason it matters is that language is about communication and if one is to accept a constant flow of fresh corruptions, then the only outcome must be even greater lack of common and accurate understanding.
New words are not corruptions, they are just changes and usually add to greater understanding. If you want evidence close to hand, this suite is litterred with neologisms that the computer/photography industry has introduced to the language in the last 10/12 years.  It would be very hard to communicate without these new words and not all ae technical. Some stick and become the new norm and some will fade away [floppy disk]. People don't normally fail to understand the meaning. They simply learn the new words without even really noticing.
The Language changing does not mean more complicated. It could be the exact opposite. Plus words have always changed meanings and slang has become the norm and the norm has become slang and some words have done a complete volte-face with regard to meaning. Some words undergo meliration and some pejoration, as long as we are using words in the same way as people around us, it matters not a jot.
 Joe Haldeman wrote a story set in the 1880s in the USA and he carefully researched the language of the time and decided not to use it. Why? A lot of the language had fallen out of favour and had only recently come back in and was now seen as modern slang. So by being accurate it would sound too modern. The ironies abound when one tries to preserve language. Language changes and it will do so naturally and slowly as it always has. Plus banning words like le weekend is ridiculous. And ironically reminds me of this French phrase, Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Usually shortened to Plus ça change.. and is used here as well as France and means 'the more things change, the more things stay the same'. In fact with language, the only constant is that it will change.

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Insofar as the French example is concerned, I see little wrong with any attempt to protect the language. There is no need whatsoever for a French person to find it necessary to refer to le weekend as French provides perfect alternatives of its own.
'Le weekend' is the French word for weekend as in English it's 'the weekend'.  And I believe the reason it was adopted was because they did not have a word for it. Also a title of a famous [French] film by Jean Luc Goddard.

 
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If it were not bad enough using slang from within one´s own language, the use or importation of even more remote words from the current waves of immigrants crossing borders almost at will bodes even worse for the future.
My gran lived in a bungalow, should we ban that word as it is Indian in origin as is veranda. They had words for things we didn't have, so why not use the words. English is such an amazingly rich and diverse language specifically as a result of our adopting any word that is usuable. French has such a small and impoverished vocabulary compared to English, so limiting it even more is not the smartest of moves from a literary perspective. Heck it would be hard to communicate on a quotidian basis if we suddenly removed all the 'foreign' words.
 
 
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People counter this perception by making reference to Shakespeare or even Chaucer and saying that if change were not good, we would still be speaking and writing in the manner of the two aforementioned gentlemen. Well, if we were, then it would be the norm and we would still all understand one another; I believe that English has reached a very high plateau, a level beyond which it has no reason to attempt to climb. The only new words that need be fed into the language are, in my opinion, those that have to be created in the service of new technology, where existing words do not fit the bill.
The Victorians said the same thing about science at the fin de siecle [all these nasty foreign words!!] Everything has been discovered. Yeah, spot on there. Well seeing as culture and society changes as much as science, words will have to change too. Language is culture.
Besides seeing as Shakespeare wrote in iambic pentameter, it's unlikely that would be how we'd speak now as they didn't speak like that even then. Not to mention your comments about the two authors is arguing my point not yours!?  

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Considering that such a high proportion of school kids fails to leave school with any worthwhile qualifications, even the ability to read and write, it seems strange to imagine that further complication of language will ever help to remedy the situation.
As for kids not be fully literate when leaving school, there has always been a percentage who manage that and that will probably never change that much as some people are less able that way, even with good teaching. Besides the main problem with learning English is English. It is a very difficult language to learn correct spelling as it is quite nearly random, I think compared to Italian a child has to learn more than double the amount of spellings for common sounds. As someone who is literate and a good speller, I still have have to guess how to pronounce any new word I happen upon, as in English knowing how to pronounce a similar word, is not much help. Not to mention the huge range of regional pronounciations and idiolects.
 Label/lapel or bow/bough are good examples of English and its inconsistency.
 And as a fun test would 'ghoti' be pronounced?

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But then, it is the popular culture so attractive to that very group of zero-achievers that gets so much exposure, that perpetuates the problem...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169431\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What problem?  
 Look at history, that's an eternal complaint. - Plus ça change...  
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jjj

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« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2008, 09:21:31 am »

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Not really... or what's the point to argue against misspellings?   
It's the task of the Academie to frame the evolution of the language, and not to stop it, of course. Yes, of course too, they're doomed to be a bit late...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169446\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Correct spelling is a different thing from have language police, which dictate what words are acceptable. Too close to the Thought Police for my liking. Hardly 'Libertie Egalitie Fraternitie'.
Though making radios play more French music gave French Hip Hop a big boost. Rapping in a French accent works quite nicely.

Anyone read Irvine Welsh? He writes in colloquial Scottish, so the spelling looks very odd, but if you read it in a Scottish accent [not out loud!] it makes sense.

On a  vgaeluy smiialr ntoe, if you wrtie a snctnece but levae the lsat ltetres the smae, tehn you can sltil raed it! Which is quite interesting from a perception point of view.
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2008, 11:32:18 am »

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British lemonade is Lemon pop [soda] not a lemon-lime pop, like 7Up.

About 5-10 years ago (when I was last in the UK), my first two attempts at ordering "lemonade" from a menu resulted in 7-Up or a close equivalent being brought, which is why I remembered the language confusion so clearly.  (Or maybe it was because we were in cheap restaurants - my parents, who I was there with, are more frugal than I...)

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Actually even some idiot bar staff in the UK get confused when you ask for orange squash rather than cordial, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Cordial is simply the posh/grown-up word for squash.

Funny, more differences...  If you order "squash" in the US, you get a plate of pumpkin, zucchini or a related vegetable!  

Lisa
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Harold

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« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2008, 12:30:29 pm »

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']He eats shoots, and leaves.
or
He eats, shoots ---[/span]
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Rob C

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« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2008, 12:38:29 pm »

jjj

Frankly, you are arguing against me on some points by the curious technique of writing more or less exactly what I have already writtenI

Your reference to new, technologically useful words was exactly my point too!

As for the French failing to have a rich language and literary tradition of their own - it´s a suggestion so ludicrous that it hardly warrants response. So, I leave that to any indignant Frenchman who might care to reply to it.

As for making references to the use of the traditional Scottish tongue - hold on a minute, please. I lived in Scotland for almost thirty years before I managed to exit that sorry land - many others would have followed but lacked the ability - and you might care to learn that the use of Gaelic, as with the wearing of the kilt, is little more than a tourist conceit and, outwith some hick communities, a national embarrassment, other than at weddings, where it becomes something even more ridiculous. Perfectly good street names in standard English are doubled, at rate-payer expense, with Gaelic alternatives for no greater purpose than to sell some faux bullshit to the poor saps being milked of their tourist pound for the pleasure of bad food, indifferent lodgings and grim service, to stretch a word.

Gaelic public services - yes, radio and such, more crap designed to garner minority votes for outlandish political parties again at poor old rate-payer cost. Of course, you might change the name of the fiscal contribution, but it is always the same old gang that gets the pleasure of actually having to pay the money.

Bungalow? Verandah? As I said, where no traditional name exists, a new one is a legitimate addition to the lexicon. New words, as you also say yourself, are not corruptions; the intentional misuse of existing ones is nothing but. Which is what I implied.

Present day English, without the use of long-established or assimilated foreign ones: I did state that, in my opinion, English was already on a very high plateau; that need to introduce new foreign additons or influences beyond any specifically intended for technological reasons had long passed. I still believe that. Why do you invoke Victorians to misinterpret what I have been writing? I made no reference to science fiction; had I done so, I would have accepted new words in the context of something which did not exist previously - of course such things require a name.

Don´t lecture me on the Italian language:; my mother was Italian, well-educated and well-travelled too. If you believe English is more difficult than Italian, then I have news for you: you are mistaken yet again.

To a person born in whichever country, the native language is not, should not, be difficult. It is too easy to lay blame on teachers. I have two of them in my family and I can only tell you that they don´t earn a great deal of money in that profession but, based on professional experience, they have made the decision to scrimp and save every penny they can with one goal: to put their own children through private education, which they have been doing for several years now.

Why? Because the state system, so beholden to that dreaded lowest common denominator, the democratic vote system, sucks. It cannot deliver. It never will deliver becasue it is based on flawed left-wing political cant already demonstrated as failed in the very countries from whence it spread.

The present geniuses running the UK wish to lower the voting age to sixteen: well, can you get more cynical than that? Even the well-educated young tend towards leftish thinking in the innocence, the naivety of mind common to most young people. It takes the experience of earning your living to open your eyes to the rights and wrongs of one set of people footing the bills for all of the people. Allow enough inexperienced people to vote and you have Socialism for ever and a day. But there you go, what´s the point of writing any of this - just lke Lucy Jordan, you will believe what you learned sitting in your daddy´s easy chair whilst I am now too old to feel like throwing away the lessons of the years.

But anyway, at least we all have another common denominator: photography!

Take care - Rob C

NikoJorj

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« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2008, 12:51:43 pm »

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Correct spelling is a different thing from have language police, which dictate what words are acceptable.
You're right, and the Academie makes indeed the former - even further in your direction, the Loi Toubon (referenced a few posts ago, and not promoted by the academie but by a zealous culture minister), which (tried to  ) forbade the use of English words in French, has been invalidated on this particular point, because it was a restriction of the freedom of speech and thought as stated in the declaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen.

And yes, we do not have any other word for "week-end" - "fin de semaine" means anything between thursday and saturday.
 
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On a  vgaeluy smiialr ntoe, if you wrtie a snctnece but levae the lsat ltetres the smae, tehn you can sltil raed it! Which is quite interesting from a perception point of view.
Oiu, ca mrcahe asusi en fanriacs tnat qu'on ne bugoe pas torp lse ltrtees...
In a few words : not as practical if it's not your mother language ;o).
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 12:53:13 pm by NikoJorj »
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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jjj

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« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2008, 01:31:24 pm »

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Funny, more differences...  If you order "squash" in the US, you get a plate of pumpkin, zucchini or a related vegetable!   
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169494\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mmmmmn Butternut squash soup, yum!    
Also it's courgettes here, not zuchinnis and I don't think they are squashes, they are baby marrows, and I think to be a squash it needs to be a gourd. I'll have to ask the girlfriend, she grows the wretched things and boy do courgettes grow!!.
Here's a boot full of squashes [boot=trunk in American!]



Turk's Turbans are particularly weird and look just like their name.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 03:23:23 pm by jjj »
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jjj

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« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2008, 03:23:02 pm »

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Frankly, you are arguing against me on some points by the curious technique of writing more or less exactly what I have already writtenI
 Your reference to new, technologically useful words was exactly my point too!
Aah but my point was cultural/social changes are equally relevent to science changes. And if it's OK to introduce tech slang, what the difference between that and say music slang. They both reflect changes in society and how we communicate, So what the big deal? New cultural forms needs new names, Drum + Bass, Bassline, Garage, Reggaetron, House, Emo are all corruptions as you would call it, but perfectly valid words to describe new musical forms, which soon become normal everyday words. It's no different from how music itself has been seen over the decades. Jazz, Rock n Roll, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, Hippies, Punks, New Romantics, Ravers were all seen as morally degenerate by the previous generation, whilst the current youngsters viewed the previous moral degenerates as something quite anodyne and dull. Plus  ça change..  

 
 
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As for the French failing to have a rich language and literary tradition of their own - it´s a suggestion so ludicrous that it hardly warrants response. So, I leave that to any indignant Frenchman who might care to reply to it.
We seem have a French speaker posting here, doesn't seem too idignant to me. Are you offended NikoJorj? Beside I wasn't criticising their literature. A little bit of relevent info -  "The statistics of English are astonishing. Of all the world's languages (which now number some 2,700), it is arguably the richest in vocabulary. The compendious Oxford English Dictionary lists about 500,000 words; and a further half-million technical and scientific terms remain uncatalogued. According to traditional estimates, neighboring German has a vocabulary of about 185,000 and French fewer than 100,000, including such Franglais as le snacque-barre and le hit-parade."
Fives times the vocabulary is a phenomenal difference in richness. A hugely varied and rich resource for all thing literary.
 
 
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As for making references to the use of the traditional Scottish tongue - hold on a minute, please. I lived in Scotland for almost thirty years before I managed to exit that sorry land - many others would have followed but lacked the ability - and you might care to learn that the use of Gaelic, as with the wearing of the kilt, is little more than a tourist conceit and, outwith some hick communities, a national embarrassment, other than at weddings, where it becomes something even more ridiculous. Perfectly good street names in standard English are doubled, at rate-payer expense, with Gaelic alternatives for no greater purpose than to sell some faux bullshit to the poor saps being milked of their tourist pound for the pleasure of bad food, indifferent lodgings and grim service, to stretch a word.
 
 Gaelic public services - yes, radio and such, more crap designed to garner minority votes for outlandish political parties again at poor old rate-payer cost. Of course, you might change the name of the fiscal contribution, but it is always the same old gang that gets the pleasure of actually having to pay the money.
I never mentioned Gaelic, which seems to be a very sore point with you.    I was talking about English with a strong Scottish accent being spelled as it it pronounced and is not something you see very often in literature.
 On this theme, I come from Wales and every sign is biligual there and has nothing, nothing to do with tourism. Anything but. Nada.
 
 
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Bungalow? Verandah? As I said, where no traditional name exists, a new one is a legitimate addition to the lexicon. New words, as you also say yourself, are not corruptions; the intentional misuse of existing ones is nothing but. Which is what I implied.
What's this intentional misuse? Is there some secret cabal of people from Eastern Europe, subverting how English is used, simply to annoy Daily Mail readers?  
For the non-Brits, the Daily Mail is a right wing very, very xenphobic tabloid newpaper.
There's a 'corruption'  for you Rob,  Tabloid, which is a technical printing term, like broadsheet, fold or six sheet.  Except now it's generally accepted meaning is trashy or sensationalist  when used to describe journalism. Times change, words need to. And will always need to.  
 
 
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Present day English, without the use of long-established or assimilated foreign ones: I did state that, in my opinion, English was already on a very high plateau; that need to introduce new foreign additons or influences beyond any specifically intended for technological reasons had long passed. I still believe that. Why do you invoke Victorians to misinterpret what I have been writing? I made no reference to science fiction; had I done so, I would have accepted new words in the context of something which did not exist previously - of course such things require a name.
Science fiction! Eh?? You seem to have completely misread what I said. I simply drew an analogy to what you said about English not needing any outside influences or changes as it was such a high level [whatever that means?] to the Victorians saying a similar thing about science, not science fiction. They naively thought everything in science had been discovered.
 
 
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Don´t lecture me on the Italian language:; my mother was Italian, well-educated and well-travelled too. If you believe English is more difficult than Italian, then I have news for you: you are mistaken yet again.
No lecturing, I simply said English spelling is more dificult than Italian spelling. Not that English is more difficult than Italian, a subtle but very important distiction. Just like learning Japanese Kanjii is much harder than learning the 26 letters of the Roman alphabet. A Japanese child is expected to learn a basic 1800 before leaving school. Learning the two syllabic Japanese alphabets is a doddle in comparison, even though there are nearly twice as many characters in each of them compared to English. I managed to be able to read and write Hiragana in a week, but learning Kanji, jeesh what a task! Makes colour mangement look easy!
And if you want to get very specific on this issue go here
A cultural effect on brain function
A less technical snippett
"Young Italian readers can achieve 92% accuracy on word reading tests after only 6 months of schooling, whereas learning to read in English takes much longer. Compared to German, another consistent orthography, accuracy levels in English are lower and reading speed is slower even after three years of schooling. Adult English readers are slower at reading non-words than readers of the consistent Serbocroat orthography."
Welsh should be even easier as it is completely phonetic [i.e. has perfectly consistent orthography]. So as soon as you learn the few rules it is sooooo easy to pronounce, assuming you carry summon up enough phelgm!    So much easier for Spanish speakers than most native English speakers to try.

 Having said that, English being such a mishmash of other languages and having so few rules, is not that easy to master if learning later in life. The so called 'rules of English' were simply 'Rules of Latin' dumped on English so as to try and codify the language a couple of centuries ago.  A French friend of mine once said about English  - "You knew you mastered it when you understood and know phrasal verbs and where to put F^%k in the sentence."  Somewhat irreverent, but she succintly described the very open, simultaneously vague and varied nature of English.

If you want to find out more about language and how we create/use it this is an interesting read.
The Language Instinct
 
 
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To a person born in whichever country, the native language is not, should not, be difficult. It is too easy to lay blame on teachers. I have two of them in my family and I can only tell you that they don´t earn a great deal of money in that profession but, based on professional experience, they have made the decision to scrimp and save every penny they can with one goal: to put their own children through private education, which they have been doing for several years now.
 
 Why? Because the state system, so beholden to that dreaded lowest common denominator, the democratic vote system, sucks. It cannot deliver. It never will deliver becasue it is based on flawed left-wing political cant already demonstrated as failed in the very countries from whence it spread.
 
 The present geniuses running the UK wish to lower the voting age to sixteen: well, can you get more cynical than that? Even the well-educated young tend towards leftish thinking in the innocence, the naivety of mind common to most young people. It takes the experience of earning your living to open your eyes to the rights and wrongs of one set of people footing the bills for all of the people. Allow enough inexperienced people to vote and you have Socialism for ever and a day. But there you go, what´s the point of writing any of this - just lke Lucy Jordan, you will believe what you learned sitting in your daddy´s easy chair whilst I am now too old to feel like throwing away the lessons of the years.
Aargh, more politics!!  
Left wing, socialist goverment!!!!!????? We've had a right wing party in power since 1979. New Labour are more right wing than dear old Maggie and thinking that all youngsters are left wing is a bit off the mark in my experience. Though the minority, extreme radical lefties you find at Uni, often become more right wing with age it is true. I grew up in a very right wing environment, yet as I get older I see how that is deeply flawed, much like you think socialism is deeply flawed. The major flaw to my mind in all political ideologies is not the stance, but the corrupt people who end up with the power. Left or right wing, they all get caught doing what they most protest about.
 
 
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But anyway, at least we all have another common denominator: photography!
 Take care - Rob C
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We sure do.  But it is nice to chat about something different at times.
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David Sutton

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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2008, 04:10:49 pm »

" It is a very difficult language to learn correct spelling as it is quite nearly random, "

Most words in English have very interesting histories, and the spelling often gives information about the origin of the word. Take two words with a similar meaning such as wed and marry, or colour and hue, and the longer word will usually be from Latin and the shorter from Old English.

"label/lapel"

Good example. "Label" from French and "lapel" from the Old English "lap".

"bough/bow"

Ok, perhaps an example of how spelling and pronunciation can go their separate ways. Bough and bow (as in a bow and arrow and to bow down) are both from English I think, but bow (as in the bow of a ship) is Scandinavian. David
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jjj

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« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2008, 06:46:57 pm »

That reminds me Taquin, no-one has tried guessing how to pronounce 'ghoti'. A teacher friend used to use it to shown how English pronounciation can look odd in a different context to how you are used to seeing it. As you so nicely put it, spelling and pronounciation go their separate ways.
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Jeremy Roussak

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« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2008, 07:02:21 pm »

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Hardly 'Libertie Egalitie Fraternitie'.
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Or even Liberté Egalité Fraternité.

Jeremy
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Mike Louw

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« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2008, 07:16:53 pm »

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That reminds me Taquin, no-one has tried guessing how to pronounce 'ghoti'.

One of my favourites! ("Fish", of course   )

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open your eyes to the rights and wrongs of one set of people footing the bills for all of the people.

From each according to his ability to each according to his need, as Marx said. Nice idea and I still think wistfully of the Utopian society where this would work, but that society wouldn't consist of humans.....

Of course, Darwinian capitalism as it exists in many countries is more a case of nearly all of the people footing the bills for a very small set of people, in effect.
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Jeremy Roussak

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« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2008, 12:51:29 pm »

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That reminds me Taquin, no-one has tried guessing how to pronounce 'ghoti'. A teacher friend used to use it to shown how English pronounciation can look odd in a different context to how you are used to seeing it. As you so nicely put it, spelling and pronounciation go their separate ways.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169609\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Or, to be even more absurd, how to pronounce phtholognyrrh: turner.

 phth: t, as in phthisis;
 olo: ur, as in colonel;
 gn: n, as in gnat;
 yrrh: er, as in myrrh.

New York Times, 1877, but probably old hat even then.

Jeremy
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jjj

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« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2008, 02:29:48 pm »

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One of my favourites! ("Fish", of course   )
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To explain how ghoti=fish

gh=f - cough
o=i - women
ti=sh - station
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jjj

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« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2008, 02:39:56 pm »

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Or even Liberté Egalité Fraternité.

Jeremy
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Duh, I knew I'd do some stupid spelling error in this thread. But that's particularly dumb.  

Off tangent why are so many photographers called Jeremy or is it why are so many people called Jeremy, photographers? Only ever known a handful or two of Jeremys and only one wasn't a photographer. But that was at school and he was only 9 when I last saw him, so even he may be one by now!
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