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Author Topic: S90 sensor is better than D3x?  (Read 2804 times)

dreed

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S90 sensor is better than D3x?
« on: December 26, 2009, 09:37:20 pm »

DxO have become somewhat well known in digital camera review circles for publishing unbiased numbers for pixel peepers that seem to be biased in favour of larger sensors. Well, maybe bias is the wrong word, but I'm not sure what else to use here...

As many have said, their scores don't truely represent the final picture quality because they do not seem to take into account the number of megapixels. Thus reading this article from DxO was rather interesting: they calculate a "penalty score" for small camera sensors, such as the Canon S90 and compare it with what the D3x gets:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMa...vanced-compacts

Enjoy!
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Guillermo Luijk

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S90 sensor is better than D3x?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2009, 09:56:38 pm »

Quote from: dreed
As many have said, their scores don't truely represent the final picture quality because they do not seem to take into account the number of megapixels. Thus reading this article from DxO was rather interesting: they calculate a "penalty score" for small camera sensors, such as the Canon S90 and compare it with what the D3x gets:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMa...vanced-compacts
I think you misunderstood the story DxO Mark is talking about in that link, they are just talking about performance per unit of surface of the sensor. And with that parameter in mind they say that the Canon G11 and S90 are doing very well even with their micro-pixels, reaching higher performance per unit of surface than the FF reference (Nikon D3X).

On the other hand, taking into account the number of Mpx, is something they always did, it is called 'Print' mode (look for it in the SNR 18%, DR,... plots).

Regards

feppe

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S90 sensor is better than D3x?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 08:40:24 am »

This is actually one of the more interesting and under-discussed pixel peeping topics. DxO's comparisons of sensors of different size appear valid and reproducible, unlike the immeasurable and vague terms like "tonality" and "microcontrast" which too often creep into discussions when comparing formats.

The differences were driven home for me when I was comparing my 450D against a potential upgrade to 7D on DxO. The comparison was expectedly favoring 7D, until I changed to the confusingly-titled "print" mode, which compares the sensors as if printed at 300 DPI. The differences in tonality, SnR and color sensitivity all but disappeared at the ISOs I use (100, sometimes up to 400).

The only advantage 7D has left with are a one stop more DR and half a "stop" higher megapixel count. While those are nothing to scoff at, they are not enough to justify upgrading for me, even with 7D's improvements in UI. And I'd be moving up in size and weight, which was one of the main reasons why I moved from 30D to 450D in the first place.

It seems as though Canon has managed to squeeze similar performance out of a much higher density sensor with their latest generation, which is no mean feat. But I would much prefer true improvements which can be seen in prints rather than only at 100% magnification.

Back to the OP's question, I don't see why similar performance would and could not translate to larger sensors, but I assume it has to do with cost. I'm pure layman when it comes to sensor manufacturing, but I imagine the cost of scaling the small high-performance sensors to FF would be prohibitive, as yields from larger sensor dies would presumably go down. Also, the manufacturers of some of these sensors are different, so the FF manufacturers will not have access to some of the features found in the smaller ones.

ErikKaffehr

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S90 sensor is better than D3x?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2009, 10:14:58 am »

Hi,

The improvements are visible in print, sure enough, if you print big enough. At smaller print size the improvement is "below the observation horison", can possibly been seen but the advantage may not be very clear.

Check this: http://83.177.178.7/ekr/index.php/photoart...xels-do-we-need
or this comparison:

Actual pixels: http://www.pbase.com/ekr/image/107619976/original
Print (A2): http://www.pbase.com/ekr/image/107823207/original

In this case a couple of tested observers couldn't tell apart the prints. One of the observers had considerable experience at at pro lab.

On the other hand you may also check: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/t...-be-enough.html

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: feppe
This is actually one of the more interesting and under-discussed pixel peeping topics. DxO's comparisons of sensors of different size appear valid and reproducible, unlike the immeasurable and vague terms like "tonality" and "microcontrast" which too often creep into discussions when comparing formats.

The differences were driven home for me when I was comparing my 450D against a potential upgrade to 7D on DxO. The comparison was expectedly favoring 7D, until I changed to the confusingly-titled "print" mode, which compares the sensors as if printed at 300 DPI. The differences in tonality, SnR and color sensitivity all but disappeared at the ISOs I use (100, sometimes up to 400).

The only advantage 7D has left with are a one stop more DR and half a "stop" higher megapixel count. While those are nothing to scoff at, they are not enough to justify upgrading for me, even with 7D's improvements in UI. And I'd be moving up in size and weight, which was one of the main reasons why I moved from 30D to 450D in the first place.

It seems as though Canon has managed to squeeze similar performance out of a much higher density sensor with their latest generation, which is no mean feat. But I would much prefer true improvements which can be seen in prints rather than only at 100% magnification.

Back to the OP's question, I don't see why similar performance would and could not translate to larger sensors, but I assume it has to do with cost. I'm pure layman when it comes to sensor manufacturing, but I imagine the cost of scaling the small high-performance sensors to FF would be prohibitive, as yields from larger sensor dies would presumably go down. Also, the manufacturers of some of these sensors are different, so the FF manufacturers will not have access to some of the features found in the smaller ones.
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Erik Kaffehr
 
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