Topic: D3, 1Ds3 noise comparo (Read 16800 times)

jeffok · « **on:** December 09, 2007, 02:48:48 pm »

Michael, your quote on the comparison of the 1 DS3 and he D3: "But that still isn't going to stop me, or many others for that matter, from doing the comparison. These are the two leading company's current flagships, and they both started shipping the same week. It's was inevitable."

No one can stop you from doing it, but they can legitimately ask "why"?, Because they are the two "flagships"? To me, rather than comparing flagships, what you are doing is more like comparing apples and oranges. I and others would say that a fairer comparison would be between the 1D3 and the D3, given the similarity in resolution, intended use, and other factors.

There are many factors in a camera that would be important to me as a landscape photographer,and high ISO performance would be one, albeit a relatively minor one. Pixel peeping as some are on this one aspect and between two quite different cameras is, to me, a rather narrow and pointless exercise.

By the way, I WOULD be much more interested in the real-world large print quality comparison that you said you were going to do with the 1Ds3 and other cameras, including medium format. Now that to me would be really interesting and more to the point, wouldn't it?

Jeff

michael · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2007, 03:21:53 pm »

The things that interest me may not be the same as those that interest you, and the million or so people that visit this site each month may have other opinions as well. In fact I'm almost sure that they do.

So since I can't satisfy everyone, or even a large subset of everyones, I think I'll just continue to investigate the things that appeal to me, and write about them as my time permits.

Michael

Quentin · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2007, 03:39:03 pm »

I'm gobsmascked (to coin a colloquialism) by the progress that Nikon, Canon, Olympus have made in reducing noise at high ISO in their current generation of top dslr's (possibly the most by Nikon, because they had further to travel to get to where they are).

Instead of moaning about the comparisons, we should be amazed at the results. I simply wonder where this will all lead. Is 1600 ISO destined to be the new 100 ISO of the future?

Quentin

Tim Ashton · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2007, 02:03:28 am »

Quote from: jeffok,Dec 10 2007, 06:48 AM

Michael, your quote on the comparison of the 1 DS3 and he D3: "But that still isn't going to stop me, or many others for that matter, from doing the comparison. These are the two leading company's current flagships, and they both started shipping the same week. It's was inevitable."

No one can stop you from doing it, but they can legitimately ask "why"?, Because they are the two "flagships"?

As it said in the report Jeff.
"Because they were there."
Sure it would have been better had thee been a 1D 111 there too, and even a D3x but lets be thankful for an objective report on both.
Tim

nokinq · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2007, 04:37:03 am »

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The things that interest me may not be the same as those that interest you, and the million or so people that visit this site each month may have other opinions as well. In fact I'm almost sure that they do.

So since I can't satisfy everyone, or even a large subset of everyones, I think I'll just continue to investigate the things that appeal to me, and write about them as my time permits.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159527\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed your right michael and I'm sure most forum members wouldn't dream of trying to deny you your right to review whatever you wish most of which is well received and appreciated,however I think a little less arrogance and touchiness from your good self in presenting and prefacing your articles/reviews and responding to what appears to be legitimate constructive criticism would also be appreciated and help set a higher standard of debate across the forums, "nobleese oblige"might help.

Quentin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2007, 06:15:40 am »

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...however I think a little less arrogance and touchiness from your good self in presenting and prefacing your articles/reviews and responding to what appears to be legitimate constructive criticism would also be appreciated and help set a higher standard of debate across the forums, "nobleese oblige"might help.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159638\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

While I'm sure Michael can fend for himself, I can understand the need for the preliminary comments after reading past accusations of bias and hidden agendas on forums like Dpreview's. The nutters and trolls outweigh those with constructive criticism 10:1, unfortunately.

Quentin

Ray · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2007, 08:39:35 am »

I have no problem comparing apples and oranges. Apples are crisp and sweet whereas oranges are more acidic and tangy, as well as more juicy.

Let's not create problems where none exist. Do we not have enough 'real' problems in the world.

michael · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:01:48 am »

Nobleese oblige has nothing to do with it.

The point I am trying to make is that this is what I wrote simply because the gear was available and I found it interesting to do, as did the 20 other members of that weekend's seminar.

It was fun. That's the extent of it, and as I do with most of the testing and experiments that I do, I wrote it up.

I'll stress again that I don't have some master game plan or publishing schedule. I publish this site for the pleasure of doing so without the need to follow anyone else's needs or demands. If that were to happen it would stop being fun and I would stop doing it.

These are flagship cameras. No question there. They can out virtually on the same day. They were available. I did the comparison. I've said that another Canon model would have been more appropriate. But, and here's the big but – there wasn't one at the gallery the weekend that the D3 was.

Can I be any clearer?

Michael

ps: And what you call constructive critisism I call rude at best and derogatory and scurrilous at worst. You clearly havn't read what was written about me on DPReview last week. Constructive criticism it was not.

BernardLanguillier · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:44:42 am »

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And what you call constructive critisism I call rude at best and derogatory and scurrilous at worst. You clearly havn't read what was written about me on DPReview last week. Constructive criticism it was not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159665\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What the heck, you know that they will never be happy, right?

I for one find it very interesting that you bothered travelling in Nikon territory, and I have the feeling that the format you have chosen - comment as you get the chance - is interesting.

Those who feel threatened by this either way should spend the money wasted on their internet connection in a few bonus sessions with their respective shrinks. There are many frustrated folks out there. My advise to them remains the same, quit cameras and get into something less competitive like... wireless steam irons.

Cheers,
Bernard

Fred Ragland · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:53:07 am »

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...I think a little less arrogance and touchiness from your good self (Michael) in presenting and prefacing your articles/reviews and responding to what appears to be legitimate constructive criticism would also be appreciated and help set a higher standard of debate across the forums, "nobleese oblige"might help.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159638\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Who are these new people?

Michael handles his wealth, power and prestige exceptionally well! He is socially responsible, even hanging out with people like Jeff.

Thank you Michael for sharing your passion with us.

Fred

larsrc · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2007, 11:35:00 am »

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Michael, your quote on the comparison of the 1 DS3 and he D3: "But that still isn't going to stop me, or many others for that matter, from doing the comparison. These are the two leading company's current flagships, and they both started shipping the same week. It's was inevitable."

No one can stop you from doing it, but they can legitimately ask "why"?, Because they are the two "flagships"? To me, rather than comparing flagships, what you are doing is more like comparing apples and oranges. I and others would say that a fairer comparison would be between the 1D3 and the D3, given the similarity in resolution, intended use, and other factors.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159517\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For photographers with investments in one or the other series of lenses, the comparison is quite valid. Changing camera line is one of the major decisions one can make at that level, so knowing what the cream of the crop of each line is capable of is relevant. Exactly because they are flagships, their performance sets the limit for what the line can do. And besides, the fact that the up-rezzing of the Nikon worked out so well says something about whether the extra pixels on the 1DsIII are really interesting. Not that the 1DIII vs D3 comparison would be uninteresting by any means, especially for more action-oriented photography where ISO is very relevant. I, as a relatively poor person, can't wait to see this technology dribble down into smaller cameras.

-Lars

Rob C · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2007, 12:06:30 pm »

Lars

You have no right claiming to be the site´s ´relatively poor´ person; I have reserved that position already having spent a lifetime´s effort getting there! Some respect, please!

Rob C

djgarcia · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2007, 05:39:15 pm »

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...
My advise to them remains the same, quit cameras and get into something less competitive like... wireless steam irons.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159677\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are these Bluetooth-enabled? I'd be interested ...

Schewe · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2007, 06:12:22 pm »

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Michael handles his wealth, power and prestige exceptionally well! He is socially responsible, even hanging out with people like Jeff.
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Hey, I resemble that remark!!!

Michael is a big boy, but he's Canadian (which means he really does try to be polite and civil) which means he realizes some people just don't "get it" and will try to fry him up in a New York minute just for doing ANYTHING...

But, he does what he does because he wants to. And I like that about him (I'm pretty much the same way).

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...however I think a little less arrogance and touchiness from your good self in presenting and prefacing your articles/reviews and responding to what appears to be legitimate constructive criticism would also be appreciated

No, it wouldn't...he'll get crap from some people regardless of what he says/does (such as your feeble contribution) so he might as well do what he feels like with the only yardstick being his honest thoughts and opinions...and if ya don't like it, well, you know what you can do with it...

(hint, it don' shine there)

:~)

I actually got a kick out of playing with Michael's D300 last week when we hooked up at Thomas' house. It was the fist time in about ten years that I actually shot with a Nikon. I think Michael is having fun playing with the Nikons again too. I USED to be a Nikon shooter, way back when...and personally, I'm glad they are back with some "competitive" equipment again (although I won't be buying a Nikon any time soon–as a Canon Explorer of Light, that might be frowned on by Canon).

jorgedelfino · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2007, 07:08:40 pm »

some people around here need to get a life... (away from pixels).

nokinq · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2007, 07:09:24 pm »

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No, it wouldn't...he'll get crap from some people regardless of what he says/does (such as your feeble contribution) so he might as well do what he feels like with the only yardstick being his honest thoughts and opinions...and if ya don't like it, well, you know what you can do with it...

(hint, it don' shine there)

:~)

]

Thank you Mr. Schewe for enlightening me re Michaels' right to put forward "his honest thoughts and opinions" I wasn't aware that I suggested he should not, obviously you do not believe this right extends to those like myself who might have the cheek to disagree with the manner in which these thoughts and opinions are expressed.I'm sorry that you found my contribution "feeble" but I respect your right to your opinion.

bjanes · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2007, 07:12:33 pm »

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I actually got a kick out of playing with Michael's D300 last week when we hooked up at Thomas' house. It was the fist time in about ten years that I actually shot with a Nikon. I think Michael is having fun playing with the Nikons again too. I USED to be a Nikon shooter, way back when...and personally, I'm glad they are back with some "competitive" equipment again (although I won't be buying a Nikon any time soon–as a Canon Explorer of Light, that might be frowned on by Canon).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I saw on PhotoshopNews that you were going to Ann Arbor and was hoping that you would be posting a report on anything significant that transpired there. Anything new to report?

Bill

PS

BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed Michael's report on the Nikon and Canon cameras. Some of the reaction to that report reminds me of the recent case of the Brit teacher in Africa.

Schewe · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:27:26 pm »

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I'm sorry that you found my contribution "feeble" but I respect your right to your opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Cool...and I might add that 4 total posts–two of them pretty much a complete waste in this thread–does not bode well for your continued participation in these forums, long term. It's my experience you simply won't get the sort of response you want...

And you are entirely welcome to hold whatever opinions you wish no matter how ridiculous they may be...but don't think that the ridiculous won't get ridiculed...that's our job!

You might just want to try to fit in a bit before you tell your host he has bad breath...ya know?

Schewe · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:32:12 pm »

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Anything new to report?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159777\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

From that meeting? NDA...

Other than that, we had a really nice time, got to interview the Camera Raw Team and had a really nice dinner (I had the beef Wellington, I forget what Michael had)...the interview will be going on the Camera Raw video tutorial Michael and I will be doing on Jan for release in late Feb.

meyerweb · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2007, 09:35:30 pm »

Regardless of what it's compared to, the D3 noise levels at high (very high) ISO are simply amazing. I shoot Canon--switched when the New F1 was introduced, and haven't looked back--but let's be honest: Canon doesn't even offer a body that does real ISO 6400.

Let's also not forget that low noise performance is only part of what a camera system needs to do. Let's see how AF performs, image quality in other respects than noise, etc. Tests of these capabilities, and comparisons to the 1DIII will appear in good time, and very few NEED to buy a new body today, so just sit back and enjoy the fray.

I've got too big an investment in Canon gear to make a switch likely at this point, but I'm impressed with what I've seen of the D3 so far.

Author Topic: D3, 1Ds3 noise comparo (Read 16800 times)