Z3100 big drops + cleaning heads

[DHDSP]

Hi everyone,

here's a description oft the problems/steps I went through...

Yeterday I decided to switch papers as I wanted to print some technical plans. I decided to use universal coated HP paper instead of our normal ID satin. After I changed rolls I decided to calibrate and profile the paper. To my surprise real big splotches of black ink were present on the icc patches print. So I called HP.

They said it probably would be the tube system, but they would send a technician to check. After talking to him on the phone we both were pretty sure it's the printheads. The diagnostics print showed a lot of clogging (missing line on diagnostics output). Even after cleaning with luke warm water and repeated cleaning through the menu, no real improvement is seen. The clogged nozzles seem to change though !

Now the problem seems clear, but twofold: 1. There was a lot of ink (MK) at the printhead (clumps) 2. Almost ALL colors have clogged heads !

We almost never print MK because our standard paper is normally Satin ID.

Now for my questions. The printer is only 6 Months old. Is this normal ?
Can I force the printer to remap nozzles?

TIA
Peter

PS: HP is sending me new heads ...

[Mark Lindquist]

There is a thread about this issue here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....=19754&hl=z3100

I had a little problem and pulled all the heads and cleaned.  Worked like a champ afterwards.

Only trouble is, ALL the calibrations had to be redone.  But no big deal.

If you pull the heads, be sure to thoroughly clean the receptacles (where the heads plug in).
It's overspray and it builds up.  I just used distilled water and chamber clean Q-tips.

Guess it's the price that has to be paid for a lot of ink being sprayed in a robotic system that has a few issues to be ironed out.  I'll pay that price...  

Mark

[DHDSP]

Thanks for the info Mark !

Now my problem remains, if I do a diagnostics print, some of the nozzles don't fire.
I tried cleaning the heads via the menue twice now, and still some nozzles don't work. Now I've read the Z3100 remaps nozzles automatically - but that doesn't seem to work. And if the printer doesn't have enough free nozzles to use as an alternative, shouldn't it give me an error ?

My issue can be solved quite easily - as I'm getting new printheads from HP - but somehow this makes me feel uncomfortable, changing printheads if the issue can be solved differently...

TIA
Peter

There is a thread about this issue here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....=19754&hl=z3100

I had a little problem and pulled all the heads and cleaned.  Worked like a champ afterwards.

Only trouble is, ALL the calibrations had to be redone.  But no big deal.

If you pull the heads, be sure to thoroughly clean the receptacles (where the heads plug in).
It's overspray and it builds up.  I just used distilled water and chamber clean Q-tips.

Guess it's the price that has to be paid for a lot of ink being sprayed in a robotic system that has a few issues to be ironed out.  I'll pay that price...  

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146921\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[neil snape]

Nozzles are remapped. Yet if the remapping has already filled all the available addresses, there could be a limit to this scheme. The number is substantial BTW, so if it did occur, I would be surprised. What can happen though is the optical sensor have fluff or dust, hair etc that is creating it's own problem. There you have to clean the orifice before the sensor.
Changing print heads could help . Usually you should get more than 10 cartridge changes out of a set of heads though, so in this case they may be defective.

[Colorwave]

My problem was that two channels stopped firing because the contacts that the printheads plugged into were fouled with ink.  Cleaning the contacts restored the printing of all colors, but the printer was not aware that there was a problem as it kept on printing with two colors out.  Your problems may be upstream of the printhead nozzles themselves.
Cleaning the printhead compartments is not that big a PITA, but does result in the printer insisting on doing a printhead alignment every time you pull the cartridge.
-Ron H.

[namartinnz]

I had an issue with clogged heads. Had to send three back under warranty initially after having the printer a few weeks, then another a few weeks after that. One day I had a head strike issue with some canvas. Had the same results of three heads being blocked after a few cleans. Didn't want to go thru the whole process of returning them so did about 10-12 head cleans. This fixed the problem and hardly any ink was used - as compared to my Epson 4000. SO maybe keep doing more head cleans will solve the issue.

Neal

[DHDSP]

A small update (some questions remian though):

All printheads were exchanged, everything cleaned, and till now no more big drops of ink on the paper appeared. What remains is some non functional nozzles (!) - remember , I exchanged ALL printheads for new ones.
 
The technician told me he had checked this with HP and the told him that the clogged nozzles on the test will be substituted while printing !  I surely hope this is the case

There are no visible lines in the solid patches of the test , BUT I can see lines on the generation of ICC patches. Wonder why this would have NO effect on the ICC profile generation though ...

CU
Peter

PS: one printhead was non functional after installation - a sticky residue was blocking the contacts. Had to clean the contacts, after that all was OK.

Hi everyone,

here's a description oft the problems/steps I went through...

Yeterday I decided to switch papers as I wanted to print some technical plans. I decided to use universal coated HP paper instead of our normal ID satin. After I changed rolls I decided to calibrate and profile the paper. To my surprise real big splotches of black ink were present on the icc patches print. So I called HP.

They said it probably would be the tube system, but they would send a technician to check. After talking to him on the phone we both were pretty sure it's the printheads. The diagnostics print showed a lot of clogging (missing line on diagnostics output). Even after cleaning with luke warm water and repeated cleaning through the menu, no real improvement is seen. The clogged nozzles seem to change though !

Now the problem seems clear, but twofold: 1. There was a lot of ink (MK) at the printhead (clumps) 2. Almost ALL colors have clogged heads !

We almost never print MK because our standard paper is normally Satin ID.

Now for my questions. The printer is only 6 Months old. Is this normal ?
Can I force the printer to remap nozzles?

TIA
Peter

PS: HP is sending me new heads ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146907\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[neil snape]

Yes we have seen the ink building up on the left and right sides inside the printer. We also assumed that possibly there is some ink vapors getting into the ink cart contact.
There is no panic at all if a few nozzles are out. It would be very rare to see 100% firing. This is true on all printers. HP do a good job on redundancy, and checking, remapping, so much so you shouldn't see anything in a print.

There have always beens some lines in the greys on the charts from what I've seen.
Maybe scan a chart and post the image so we can see how much or where the lines are.

[tkarlmann]

Just a new user here, wanting to know how you guys feel about your z3100's -- after reading all these problems, one might conclude negatively.

How do you feel about youe z's?  Are you ready to stick with it?  Do the pluses outweigh the problems you have had, or do you toss&turn at night dreaming of switching to an Epson or something else?

Thom

[Colorwave]

How do you feel about youe z's?  Are you ready to stick with it?  Do the pluses outweigh the problems you have had, or do you toss&turn at night dreaming of switching to an Epson or something else?

Thom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've had my share of issues with mine, but still love the results I get and do feel like HP will address the main issues remaining with these printers.  Not looking to jump ship anytime soon.
-Ron H.

[Geoff Wittig]

Just a new user here, wanting to know how you guys feel about your z3100's -- after reading all these problems, one might conclude negatively.

How do you feel about youe z's?  Are you ready to stick with it?  Do the pluses outweigh the problems you have had, or do you toss&turn at night dreaming of switching to an Epson or something else?

Thom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The plusses and unique advantages of the Z3100 printer still trump its shortcomings, at least for me. It's a bit more complex and delicate than the big Epsons, but in return you get some great capabilities. I came to it after owning an Epson 7600 and 2400; when it came time to upgrade, I couldn't swallow the fact that Epson still forced me to waste time & ink swapping black inks in the 7800; and they still haven't fixed this problem with the brand new 7880! I do lots of black & white, and for monochrome I think the Z3100 trumps everything out there because it has best in class D-max on both gloss and matte papers, and out-of-the-box quad black printing. The built-in spectrophotometer and profiling function has been a boon for me; resulting profiles are plenty good enough for the landscapes I shoot, though I'm sure a dedicated profiling system in the hands of an expert will give you a few more percentage points of quality.
Finally, I've been quite satisfied with HP's service. Last week my Z3100's optical paper sensor died, so it wouldn't load paper. I was in contact with a service tech the next day, and shortly had a new sensor installed. A two-person technical team came to my house, took the printer apart, rebuilt it and got me up & running again; they were genuinely nice guys who (gratis) helped me with my wireless home network! Kudos.

[rdonson]

Just a new user here, wanting to know how you guys feel about your z3100's -- after reading all these problems, one might conclude negatively.

How do you feel about youe z's?  Are you ready to stick with it?  Do the pluses outweigh the problems you have had, or do you toss&turn at night dreaming of switching to an Epson or something else?

Thom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm still convinced I made the right decision going to the Z3100.  For the work I do its been a dream.  The ability to print matte or glossy without changing ink carts or wasting ink, the gloss enhancer, the built-in spectro have all added up to a super printer.  I purchased the APS to be able to build profiles with more patches and I think it was well worth the investment.

I do crab about HP's lack of communications and such on the printer but the printer itself has produced great results.  In many ways the printer is a technological tour de force.

[namartinnz]

I'm still convinced I made the right decision going to the Z3100.  For the work I do its been a dream.  The ability to print matte or glossy without changing ink carts or wasting ink, the gloss enhancer, the built-in spectro have all added up to a super printer.  I purchased the APS to be able to build profiles with more patches and I think it was well worth the investment.

I do crab about HP's lack of communications and such on the printer but the printer itself has produced great results.  In many ways the printer is a technological tour de force.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153839\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've had my Z3100 since February with great results from it. Having had an Epson 2100 and Epson 4000 (which I still use for non critical jobs) the Z3100 gives better prints - pure B&W, the Gloss Enhancer leaves virtually no gloss differential. Having all blacks on board means no ink changes between matt, satin and cavas media, plus the ink itself is used very economically both in printing and head cleanings.

Plus the on-board Spectrometer lets me generate any profile for any paper I put in it - provided I use the appropriate initial setting for it - this forum has been a great help for me on that. The only small issue I have is the printer won't allow you to swap out an empty ink cart when in the middle of a print job -you have to start again. But just be aware of it and you'll be ok.

Neal

[DougMorgan]

The only small issue I have is the printer won't allow you to swap out an empty ink cart when in the middle of a print job -you have to start again. But just be aware of it and you'll be ok.

Neal
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153982\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hmmmm... large format printer, 12 tiny ink carts and no mid-job cartridge changes?  I asked about this when comparing printers but didn't really get an answer.   How accurate is the level gauge?  I'd hate to loose 50 bucks worth of material because an ink level was too low.

Doug

[tkarlmann]

The plusses and unique advantages of the Z3100 printer still trump its shortcomings, at least for me. It's a bit more complex and delicate than the big Epsons, but in return you get some great capabilities. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153822\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Could you elaborate on the 'delicate issue' you hinted at?  How is the z more delicate than the Epson?

My own experience is one of waging war with my Epson 2200 everytime I printed with it -- I spent ~45 minutes getting all the nozzles to fire!  My understanding is that the HP z3100, when left powered on as required, will prints an itsy bit all by itself periodically to, perhaps, keep the nozzles clear.  How many of you do NOT keep your z's powered 24/7?

Oh, and how many problems are caused by folks never using the one black ink cart because they print on gloss paper only?  What is the solution for this?  Can one yank the matte-only-black cart?

Wow:  is there a solution for the mid-print cart runout?  How do you live with this?  I think my own scenario would be to use a RIP, and let the printer go at night.  Well, maybe not if it does not know it can finish a job with the ink it has.  This seems like a BIG limitation to me.  

Thom

[Ernst Dinkla]

Could you elaborate on the 'delicate issue' you hinted at?  How is the z more delicate than the Epson?

My own experience is one of waging war with my Epson 2200 everytime I printed with it -- I spent ~45 minutes getting all the nozzles to fire!  My understanding is that the HP z3100, when left powered on as required, will prints an itsy bit all by itself periodically to, perhaps, keep the nozzles clear.  How many of you do NOT keep your z's powered 24/7?

Oh, and how many problems are caused by folks never using the one black ink cart because they print on gloss paper only?  What is the solution for this?  Can one yank the matte-only-black cart?

Wow:  is there a solution for the mid-print cart runout?  How do you live with this?  I think my own scenario would be to use a RIP, and let the printer go at night.  Well, maybe not if it does not know it can finish a job with the ink it has.  This seems like a BIG limitation to me. 

Thom
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Z3100 keeps you well informed about what carts need to be replaced and what is left in them. The 12 x 130 ml carts will take a while to empty if a long job has to be done. One is the gloss enhancer. Between 9 to 12 ML total per square meter used should print 143 square meter with equal use of the 11 color inks. If there's a dominant color it could drop to a theoretical minimum of 13 square meter, the gloss enhancer cart probably is the limiting factor when printing gloss paper but it will go beyond that 13 square meter in economy mode. The art paper rolls are either 13 or 17 square meter so you would have to exchange a roll as well during the night. With the 11 color ink carts and 130 ML there's not that much difference to a printer that has 6 or 8 carts of 220 ML. The price of the twin packs = 260 ML is equal in ML price to the single 220 ML cart of the Epson. The Epson wastes more in keeping it in condition so that has to be counted too. I have the Z3100 on all the time but as I understand it Neil had it off and there was no problem but the printer then takes some time to get ready.

There's no problem when you use the matte black 99% of the time and you like to print a glossy once a month, it delivers a superb glossy print. I expect that it will be the same the other way around. Do not forget that some matte paper choices will include the gloss black as a darkest grey in a quad formation.

So far I have lost maybe 1.5 square meter of paper in 6 months because I thought it could do that last small print based on what it consumed at the prints before it. With a large print ahead and a cart warning on the screen, one exchanges the cart for a fresh one and writes on the old one what is left in it according to the utility software. With smaller prints ahead or cheap paper you reinsert the old cart and empty them to the chip predicted bottom. Usually there's not more than 3 ML left then according to the weight balance. The carts contain more than the 130 ml and what stays in the cart isn't paid for (in a way). This smaller cart + the pump in it + the cart connector at the bottom avoids an issue that is happening with Epson 220 ML carts and the cart staying in the printer too long: pigment settling and by that fluctuations in the color. Not a problem for printers that work 24/7 but a problem where the printer can be idle for weeks or longer.

If real production has to be made then the larger models like the Z6100, iPF9000 will offer 700 ML carts that last.

Yes, I'm happy with this printer after 8 years of 3 types of Epson wide formats, the Epson 10000 being the best among them. I wouldn't use the term delicate for the Z3100 but the 10000 has an excellent media transport system, the rest is equal or better on the Z3100.

BTW, there's a fade test in the German ColorFoto magazine that confirms the 3x - 2x better light resistance of the Vivera pigment inks compared to Epson K3 and Canon's Lucia pigment inks. A new well specified test standard is used and results for ozone fading included. Ozone fading affects the RC papers image less than the art papers but framing behind glass will eliminate the ozone fading. Archiving prints in albums will eliminate ozone and light fading. If ozone fading is counted in, the 3 ink types get closer to one another and RC paper will be the best choice for the long term. RC paper itself is thought to fall apart in 70 years. It's more complex but the article in the magazine covers it quite well.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]

[Geoff Wittig]

Could you elaborate on the 'delicate issue' you hinted at?  How is the z more delicate than the Epson?

Thom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154057\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have owned an Epson 7600 since it came out. By comparison to the Z3100, the Epson is built like an anvil, with more metal and less plastic in its construction. The Epson paper-handling is also hands-down better, with a completely straight paper path and vacuum to keep the paper flat. On the other hand, the tech guys who fixed my Z3100 praise it for the ease with which it can be maintained and taken apart. They note that it was designed thoughtfully so that getting at the parts that need fixing takes only a few screws and a few minutes. The printer stand and paper catch-basket on the Z3100 are also much more solid; the basket on the Epson tends to fall apart every time you brush against it.