IDS MKIII or new 5D?

[dwdallam]

I bought a 5D about a year and a half ago. It replaced my 20D and I was very happy with the exchange.

Now we're in the midst of a huge leap forward, or supposed leap forward, in Canon's line-up.

Mainly, I'm impressed with 14 bit vs 12 bit converter as "4 times the tonality" than the "old" 12 bit converter, new Digic III processor, and auto-cleaning sensors, etc., etc.

Bad: It's 8K US

I'm wondering if the "old" 5D will soon get the new stuff like the 40D and the IDs + Ds MK II--14 bit converter, DIGIC III, and autocleaning? Also, will it be around 3500.00US?

I'm wondering because I want the new processor, converter, and autocleaning. Those three improvements are, in my opinion, not hot air.

I'm also thinking that the 5D is a no show now that the 40D almost matches it in performance, and beats it in someways for 1300US. If I were upgrading right now, and I had to choose between the 2300.00US 5D or the new 40D at 1300US, I'd easily choose the 40D. I see little that would temp me to do otherwise.

I'm even contemplating selling the 5D, and putting that money towards a 40D and a MK III, the 40D being a nice backup, plus the telephoto I'd gain back, making my glass even more effective--specifically the 70-200L that would double as a 112-320 on the 40D.

The only thing is, now that you can purchase a brand new 5D at B&H for 2300.00US, the used price, even if it is in near mint condition as my 5D is, would probably bring no more than 1800.00 on ebay. That's a hard hit. I'm glad I got my 5D when I did for 2500US with rebates at B&H.

So anyway, what do you all think?

[Jonathan Wienke]

Since the 5D's successor hasn't been announced, its feature set is speculation at this point. By the time the 1Ds-MkIII is actually available for purchase, that may change. I'd save my money and decide when actual cameras are availably to buy.

[dwdallam]

Definitely. Besides, I would assume that six months from now, the MKIII will come down some from 8K. Although I seem to remeber that the MKII did not come down much at all.

But let's assume that the 5D will get the same treatment as the 40D and 1DS, that being the new 14 bit converter and DIGIC III processor, plus auto cleaning. And if that wasn't enough, how about a bump to 16MPs. It's not a huge jump to think that the 5D won't benefit from a bump in MPs since the 40D did, and is too close for competitive comfort to the 5D.  

I'd have a hard time thinking most people would buy the 5D over the 40D given that it is nearly twice as expensive and that the 40D is very impressive all around. If I were a photo journalist, I'd have to think long and hard before I bought the 5D over the 40D, given you get some extra reach and that you can buy two 40Ds for one 5D--almost.

It seems logical that Canon needs to beef up the 5D in several areas.

It's sort of the same thing that was going around after the 5D came out. People were beginning to think "Why MKII when 5D is so close to the output of the MKII?" The pixel spread is now nearly the same as it was with the 5D vs MKII (10 vs 12.7).

Everything is updated in Canon's line-up except the 5D.

You are right though. I won't buy until the new 5D is out, or at least its technology leaked. I feel like the 5D is a bastard child right now, no dad, or even parents for that matter. Done been orphaned.

Since the 5D's successor hasn't been announced, its feature set is speculation at this point. By the time the 1Ds-MkIII is actually available for purchase, that may change. I'd save my money and decide when actual cameras are availably to buy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146297\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[mahleu]

I can't imagine that they would release the 5d update without the added features which the 40d currently has.

[dwdallam]

Nor can I. I'm wondering if the 5D will get a bump in MPs too? If so, where will that leave the 1D? Essentially, you'll have a 1Ds with less MPs that cost more than the 5D.

I can't imagine that they would release the 5d update without the added features which the 40d currently has.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146310\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Ray]

Nor can I. I'm wondering if the 5D will get a bump in MPs too? If so, where will that leave the 1D? Essentially, you'll have a 1Ds with less MPs that cost more than the 5D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146312\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If we use precedence as a guide, it would be reasonable to presume that the 5D's successor will have all the features of the 40D, and some.

Now that Nikon are implying they're soon going to increase the pixel count of their full frame sensor, it's almost inconceivable that the new 5D will not boast an increased pixel count to at least 16mp (although personally I'd prefer about 25mp and no AA filter   ).

The fact that the 1D3 will still have only 10mp is not such a big issue considering that the 1D series cameras are always more robust, have better waterproofing, faster frame rates and focussing capability at f8 etc.

The only reason I can think of for buying a current 5D instead of a 40D would be its superior wide-angle performance. The increased pixel count of the 5D is insignificant, resolution wise, and is probably offset by an equally insignificant reduction in shadow noise and increase in tonality from the 40D with its 14 bit processing.

[wilburdl]

If we use precedence as a guide, it would be reasonable to presume that the 5D's successor will have all the features of the 40D, and some.

Now that Nikon are implying they're soon going to increase the pixel count of their full frame sensor, it's almost inconceivable that the new 5D will not boast an increased pixel count to at least 16mp (although personally I'd prefer about 25mp and no AA filter   ).

The fact that the 1D3 will still have only 10mp is not such a big issue considering that the 1D series cameras are always more robust, have better waterproofing, faster frame rates and focussing capability at f8 etc.

The only reason I can think of for buying a current 5D instead of a 40D would be its superior wide-angle performance. The increased pixel count of the 5D is insignificant, resolution wise, and is probably offset by an equally insignificant reduction in shadow noise and increase in tonality from the 40D with its 14 bit processing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can see the 5DII being 16mp 14 bit. I say the frame rate remains the same. Outside of a bigger screen, I don't see too many more improvements. They don't want it to butt heads with the 1DsIII.

[mahleu]

The 400d had more pickles than the 30D for quite a while. I agree that the 1D and 1Ds lines will still find enough customers who want speed, weather proofing, build etc.

[Ray]

I can see the 5DII being 16mp 14 bit. I say the frame rate remains the same. Outside of a bigger screen, I don't see too many more improvements. They don't want it to butt heads with the 1DsIII.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146376\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, the 5D certainly butted heads with the 1Ds 2. There were protracted arguments on the old Rob Galbraith forum, and no doubt elsewhere, claiming that any image quality advantage of the 1Ds2 over the 5D was insignificant and sometimes even invisible. Some photographers still claim that for modeling purposes (skin tones etc) the 5D is superior to the 1Ds2.

An increase from 12.8mp to 16mp is going to be a bit underwhelming. It'll have to have all the other major design changes to make it appealing, such as ISO bracketing, self-cleaning sensor and live preview, and I hope a real ISO 3200 with a fake ISO 6400.

[sojournerphoto]

personally I'd prefer about 25mp and no AA filter  [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146355\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, that would fit the bill nicely. Sadly, I don't think canon marketing department will let them do that so soon after releasing the 1ds3. Unfortunately the likely 16 to 17MP, AA'd upgrade is not necessarily that significant. The new features from the 40D will be welcome, as will improved autofocus. Is suspect the frame rate will go to 4, though 5 would be better.

One area that would be good is if canon limit the resolution to 16 or 17Mp, but then build the new low noise, clean image champion with 16 bit processing:) I could probalby live with that.

[Ray]

One area that would be good is if canon limit the resolution to 16 or 17Mp, but then build the new low noise, clean image champion with 16 bit processing:) I could probalby live with that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In view of the subtlety of the current improvements in tonality and noise attributed to the 40D's 14 bit processing, I doubt that Canon would offer 16 bit processing with the new 5D. However, if they limit pixel count to 16-17mp, which allows for bigger pixels than any of the recent models such as 30D, 40, or 1Ds3, they should be able to give us at least one stop higher ISO, say a 3200 ISO which is as clean as the current 5D's ISO 1600.

[dwdallam]

In view of the subtlety of the current improvements in tonality and noise attributed to the 40D's 14 bit processing, I doubt that Canon would offer 16 bit processing with the new 5D. However, if they limit pixel count to 16-17mp, which allows for bigger pixels than any of the recent models such as 30D, 40, or 1Ds3, they should be able to give us at least one stop higher ISO, say a 3200 ISO which is as clean as the current 5D's ISO 1600.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146834\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll be happy with the 14 bit converter for increased tonality, sensor cleaner, DIGIC III processor, 4FPS, and 16MPs, a little better cache buffer, in other words, all the things we will probably get with the new 5D (6D).

Also, consider that when the 5D came out I was confused what Canon had in mind offering a camera so close in performance to the MKII for less than half the price. And then it got down to 2300US. And then the 40D came out for 1300US with all the new stuff. Now it makes more sense.

MKIII--8000.00US and 21MP +etc.
6D -- 3500.00US 16MP and all the new stuff, larger LCD, etc.
40D 1300.00 with all the new stuff.

That's a spread I can understand marketing wise. The 40D is still cheap for such a nice camera though. I can see that it will be the camera for the hobby shooter with more money than skill or talent, or for the enthusiast who lacks money but does have skill, talent, and a serious nature about photography, but who may not have the time needed to go pro--family, nice paying job, etc. We're talking mortgage brokers, dentists, etc., People who are serious about photography, but have "professional" lives, and commitments.

The 5D (6D?) will separate the hobby/serious shooter from the semi pro, pro, and pro journalist type crowd. Most people not very serious about photography with time to spend doing it won't fork out the 3500.00US for the new 6D.

MKIII All pro needing the best they can get with the MPs, like Micheal, and other landscape photogs that want portability, cost, and yeah that camera will give the quality--I hope, or it's a gonner. It will probably be a hot topic for commercial photogs too, doing product photography and fashion, but that camera has to be heavy. I'm sure for fashion the 6D at 16MP would do nicely.

I can't wait for the 6D.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I can't wait for the 6D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But then, of course, there is the 7D to consider down the road.  

[jerryrock]

Everyone is assuming that the 5D line will continue. It looks like a dead end to me.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Everyone is assuming that the 5D line will continue. It looks like a dead end to me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147022\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why should it be a dead end?
It fills a price niche nicely between the 10D-20D-30D-40D series and the 1D series. There is certainly always going to be a market for something in that gap.

[santa]

dead? the digicIII, larger lcd, dust removing set of upgrades are already developed and pretty much a no brainer for the next version. everyone would like more mp but we'll see about that. all the technology is in place for the obvious upgrade; it's just a matter of when Canon will release it. I'll be ordering one as soon as it's released but I'm in no hurry.

[marcmccalmont]

Wouldn't it be a 3D?
Marc

[dwdallam]

What I don't understand is the 1D MKII at 8.2MP and 4500US. I don't understand that model marketing wise at all.

It seems more logical to offer the 1D MK at 16MP, the 5D at 12.7, but with upgraded processor, etc. So you get two completely pro series cameras, weather sealed, etc., and something very competent inbetween the 40D and 1D MKII.

I girlfriend of mine works at a studio in Manhatten and all they buy are 5Ds. The owner doesn't even have a 1Ds MKII. Of course they do all commercial photography, no landscape or product, but that stuff gets blown up into posters for advertising--such as plays on Broadway. She said they have no problems with quality from their clients.

I guess if the 1D MKII is a niche camera, perhaps for newspaper sports photographers, since it is fast, then I can understand that. Otherwise, I don't get it.

[Ken Bennett]

I guess if the 1D MKII is a niche camera, perhaps for newspaper sports photographers, since it is fast, then I can understand that. Otherwise, I don't get it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147125\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is correct - it's a niche camera. I wouldn't want more than 8 or 10 megapixels of data for most of what I shoot. What I want is a very fast, very responsive camera with instant AF, a huge buffer, and that's mostly impervious to the weather and to daily bumps and bruises. The 1-D series has been aimed at photojournalists and sports photographers since the beginning.

Plus you can use it to defend yourself against muggers....

[madmanchan]

Canon has two big pro markets ... the photojournalist / news / sports guys and the studio / advertising guys. They have a pro body for each market ... 1D for the former, 1Ds for the latter.