what happens after photography?

[RicAgu]

Avedon was shooting and on assignment when he died in his 70's

Newton died leaving his set in his 70's

Scavullo died in his 70's shooting weeks before he went into the hospital and passeed on.

Penn is in his 90's and still shootng 4 days a week.

God, I hope this is the way I go!

If what you do does not consume your very being, then you should not be doing it.  We don't do it because we have to do it because we want to pay the bills, but we do it in spite of it, because we love it.  Because as we all know, this is not the way to get rich quick and relax and retire quick.

CARPE DIEM!  

Best of Luck!

RA

[pixjohn]

Julius Shulman is 95 and still shooting, teaching and doing lectures. I don't think you could do better then that.

[AndreNapier]

There is no secret that the whole beauty and fashion industry is in general populated by young and hip crowd. The secret to success and longevity is considering it as a business and not a gig and applying proven structures of running an enterprise.
When I was a stylist in my twenties and thirties I new well that my hands and talent will not carry me till my full age retirement. Simply there is not many stylist in their 50's as the job is physically to demanding despite popular believe. From the start I knew that my key to survival is investing as much time into my business skill as I did into creativity. Being a top stylist in my market I would easily pull $1000+ day and be solid book 300 days a year. I did and still do live a modest life style.
That helped me smartly invest majority of my income and very soon open my own salon. With time passing I delegated my clientel and responsibilities to young stylist. Now no longer behind a chair I do not miss my income as the business produces much more than my hands would ever do.
I try to apply the same logic to everything I do, being it a real estate or photography. It is a business and the savvy one are surviving while the dreamers are sinking everyday.
My advice to the young crowd is very, very simple: Just because you love and are proud of your work do not be shy to think of it as business.
Money is good today? great, save it. Buy your own studio, hire other photogs to do your dirty jobs and cash on it. If your name and work is a magnet you would attract clientel of all sorts of needs. There is no shame to cash on weddings if you do not have to do it yourself. Your apprentice can run this line in your studio. While at it hire a make up artist and a hair stylist to offer a full service solution. Have some younger photog doing your compcards work for young kids for agencies you established contacts with. Offer in house printing and cash on it as well. Possibilities are endless.
Soon you would realize that the odds jobs are by far exceeding your own income.
Just a fruit for thought. I had never been ashame to make a dollar as long as it did not hurt anybody else.

http://AndreNapier.com

[TorbenEskerod]

xx

[TorbenEskerod]

xx

[KAP]

Photography is my profession for over 15 years now. It gives me a modest income, but this is my deliberate choice. I could earn a lot more, but I would have to work more too. Each month I spend about one week for paid jobs. The rest of my time is dedicated to free work, thinking, writing, dreaming and simply enjoying life, having tea with friends. It's not difficult to live with little income when you are so rich with good life on the other hand. Just keep your monetary expenses low.

I love to live in the shadow. No need for spotlights or other nerve wrecking ideals. One day I hope to have created a body of work good enough to make my own exhibition and probably a nice book. But if it won't happen I will still be happy with my blessed life. I cannot imagine a life without creativity, so I'll probably still be an artist when I'm old. Currently my income is based on a rather small customer base. If these people give up on me or if they retire from the companies that they work for I might have a serious problem. I've never done any acquisition. Still I notice that the older you become the more you build up a network around you. And without doing anything to promote myself this network brings in new assignments all the time. I very much believe that the quality of the work is only part of the package. The people you work for need to be taken on a trip by you. It is the experience of that process that will bring them back to you. After all, how often are they able to see the real quality of your work?

Many times I have been investing huge amounts of time in things I wanted to find out or learn. Just out of curiosity. But the skills resulting from these quests have always paid themselves back sooner or later. That's why I am not afraid of the future. As long as I'll have my inventivity with me I will be able to survive. That's really a soothing thought.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nice if your clients will leave you alone, I've had calls on a Saturday evening at 11.30 desperate for an image to be ftp'd. I'm working 6 days and evenings most weeks, sometimes rushed other times more easily. I can't dictate my freetime, that's when the phone stops ringing and everything is upto date. Having a holiday causes me major trauma. If I thought anyone would pay me what the business is worth to me I'd sell and do something less demanding on my time.

Kevin.

[Mark_Tucker]

There is a long feature on Shulman in last month's issue of Dwell Magazine, shot by Catherine Ledner.

Very inspiring. And many of his historic BW images published in the article.

http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/shulman/

Julius Shulman is 95 and still shooting, teaching and doing lectures. I don't think you could do better then that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143499\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[awofinden]

So, I have been wondering what people are doing once their cache as a photographer is gone. At the moment, I have plenty of work and things look rosy. But then I think about getting old, grey and fat, and who's going to hire me then?? Where I work ( fashion in NYC), image seems to be a big part of the story. Sure there are some aging super stars in the photo industry here, but it seems to be mostly cute, young (european!) guys who dominate the market...so what happens when your youth starts to wane? I mean, only so many of us can end up teaching photography, right?
I am now at the height of my career, making plenty of cash, and already I am thinking I should be gaining more skills so I don't end up moving into my mom's basement when I am 50...  :-(
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143237\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Peter Lindberg must be in his 60's, demarchelier the same, miesel, 50? Albert Watson 60 ish surely. Name a superstar younger than 40, can you?

[SeanPuckett]

There is a lot more money in helping others fulfill their dreams than in trying to sell them yours.

[wilburdl]

Ron,
Thanks for this topic.

I must admit I never thought I'd be in photography. Most of my life has been consumed with illustration. By chance, while doing editorial cartoons for my university student paper, I picked up a friends camera. It got me interested. Since then I've run the gambit of photographic genres but people remain my passion. I've only been in photography for five years. It's where I want to be.

I've found that I've outgrown my small market and on the way to relocating to Atlanta (where I've made a few to expand my base. I've been paying my dues and gleaming all the information I can from my local ASMP chapter.

I can understand the trepidation of any photographer trying to make a living out of this endeavor--albeit a bit jarring that it never disappears-no matter how successful. But I don't believe the market will ever be so volatile that it wouldn't make economic sense to pursue it. It's just things change. Everything but the basics. And for me that includes being outgoing, respectful, open to criticism and peristance.

[ronno]

Peter Lindberg must be in his 60's, demarchelier the same, miesel, 50? Albert Watson 60 ish surely. Name a superstar younger than 40, can you?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are making my point. There are a few older stars, but for every one of them, there are thousands who are not stars, and not working anymore. What have they moved on to?

[bwpuk]

So, I have been wondering what people are doing once their cache as a photographer is gone. At the moment, I have plenty of work and things look rosy. But then I think about getting old, grey and fat, and who's going to hire me then?? Where I work ( fashion in NYC), image seems to be a big part of the story. Sure there are some aging super stars in the photo industry here, but it seems to be mostly cute, young (european!) guys who dominate the market...so what happens when your youth starts to wane? I mean, only so many of us can end up teaching photography, right?
I am now at the height of my career, making plenty of cash, and already I am thinking I should be gaining more skills so I don't end up moving into my mom's basement when I am 50...  :-(
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143237\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ron,

Thanks for this post, one of the most insightful and thought provoking that's occurred on this forum in my opinion.

It really made my day when I read here that Irving Penn still shoots four days a week at the age of 90. He has long been a hero of mine and is THE BOSS as far as I'm concerned. You can just tell, by looking at his work, that he loves what he does, and would do it whether it made him money or not. Same for Avedon, you can just tell, his work glows like a precious jewel. When Avedon died I was greatly upset until I came across this quote made by him, from his obituary;

" And if a day goes by without my doing something related to photography, it's as though I've neglected something essential to my existence, as though I had forgotten to wake up. I know that the accident of my being a photographer has made my life possible."

I've enlarged this and printed it out and stuck it to the wall of my office. It echoes my own feelings to a word.

What is success anyway, earning a ton of money or having the time to do what you love and just getting by ?  I think to be truly successful in photography you have to treat it as an obsession and not a profession.  Just do your own thing and go your own way. This is the important thing that will make you stand out from the crowd, and it's pretty crowded out there at the moment !

Barrie Watts

[TorbenEskerod]

xx

[AndreNapier]

Yesterday I saw a very wonderful film about the painter Lucian Freud:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lucian-Freud-Portr...91393076&sr=1-1

He is totally committed to his art, nothing can interfere, and he does not care about business at all just his work. I think I am a bit naive but this is the way I want to go.

Best

Torben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143523\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Do you think he is somewhere in the syberspace on painters forums arguing about the use of silk brush vs horsetail brush? or discussing superiority of short strokes over gliding? I my previous post I stated that I am friend with some great artists in despair. To some extend I admire them to the other I feel sorry for their pain. Everything is expanse of something else. If you are single and did not made a commitment of responsibilities you can make an easier choices. I have four kids. The youngest just turn two. She will be in college when I will be 65+ IT IS MY DUTY AS AN ARTIST
TO BE HER FATHER FIRST. Besides I truly do not think that Money is a menace of creativity. Quite contrary it open the means of freedom to create without being constrain to have to do things to just survive. My underwater birth project " gift of life" of my Gitane took 6 months of preparation to create just one image. It would not be possible if I had to do other things in the same time. It was and 90% of my photography still is for the love of it. Deep lasting life long love.
It just hurts me so much to see great photogs like my neighbor Mark Houser going out on foreclosures late in their life, when it did not have to be this way at all.
[a href=\'http://Http://AndreNapier.com\' target=\'_blank\'][/a]

[TorbenEskerod]

xx

[nicolaasdb]

I know a super star photographer in his 40's...Nicolaas de Bruin (oeps that's me!!  
Nobody really cares how you look like as long as they like your work and your price.
But after reading this tread I have to lose that extra 30LBS I have been walking around with....OR i just wait for the quiet times....when clients seem to have forgotten about you.

About advertising...how in this day and age can you really say that you don't need or have a website and don't advertise?? I agree with the part of not calling clients....let them call you, since I never have anything to offer (financial discounts that is)....

[ronno]

Photography is my profession for over 15 years now. It gives me a modest income, but this is my deliberate choice. I could earn a lot more, but I would have to work more too. Each month I spend about one week for paid jobs. The rest of my time is dedicated to free work, thinking, writing, dreaming and simply enjoying life, having tea with friends. It's not difficult to live with little income when you are so rich with good life on the other hand. Just keep your monetary expenses low.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I just bought a weekend house in the country where I spend three nights a week spacing out, swimming in the river, guzzling wine, bbqs, etc. So at the moment, I am living large. (and investing! in real estate! Which seemed like a good investment until the recent real estate crash :-)) But it's the enjoyment of such which gets me thinking about how to keep this going for the rest of my life (and especially when I intend at some point to have expensive $$$ kids...)
This got me looking around at my peers (the Young And The Beautiful: art directors, photographers, etc. all looking like models themselves) and asking the above questions...

By the way, I love Lucian Freud. What's the name of the movie? Whenever people ask me about what books to get to learn photography I tell them to get books of paintings and photographs, instead of the the cheesy 1-2-3 portrait lighting books. And I recommend books with gorgeous painted portraits like Lucian's. I think being able to RECOGNIZE nice light is a big and important piece of the puzzle when you are staring out.

Best,
-ron

[SeanPuckett]

At the top of my game at age 39, I quit my last career.  Independent, sought after, earn-as-much-as-I-want sort of thing.  I threw it in the toilet so I could get my soul back -- with photography.  Like my artist's bio says, I smile a lot more frequently these days.  I think that's the key, ronno.  Keep a roof over your head, keep your family fed, and make sure you smile more days than not.  That's what success really is.

I must confess that sometimes I feel that nasty old frantic feeling, but I try and take a step back and have a walk or a beer or something and go out and take some pictures and walk around in the sunshine, and it's all better again.

[rainer_v]

many interesting things have been said here, much more than our endless chats about this or that pixel which is sightly more or less sharp.

i am thinking about several standpoints here, which seem to be so different because our lives, careers and aproaches are also very different., and i think all are very interesting to read.

my personal believe is that we need good luck at first.
what, if i will get tomorow some serious illness ? or an accident by car or one of my children will have it ? or the gulfstreem will stop .... ? i mean, without becoming to pathetic , there is more in our live which is not to control and which can easily and fast be much more important as if we earn  $*****,** or just the half.
 .... my spanish house is in the old part of a little town in the south, on the top of a hill. in front of the house is one way road which leads up the mountain and between the road and my house- door is a small way for people. never i look to the left of this walkway if i go out of the house,- although many crazy byces race up usualy they use the road.
but this afternoon i looked before i went out,- exactly in time to see that a motorbyce used the walkway to make a race against a car which was aside on the road. both passed by a fraction of a second later with maybee 50 mph,- passing by maybe 1/4 meter in front of me,  going out on the walkway without looking left and i would not write now here... i had good luck or whatever, i am still alive and can plan my next projects.
call it good luck or destiny if you prefer, certainly it was not earned through my great skills.


About work i share the idea to give something more than expected, and i dont like to bill every handshake i am doing. so i prefer lump-sums not daily rates  + this and + that and + this + that.
i usually hold contacts with clients which i  personnally like and with whom i have to speak somehing, which has not only to be work. i dont hold contacts with people who do not give me a good feel,- independent if they are important or not. of course if they phone me and the conditions are ok, i will work for them and i will like to do this, but i will not be behind these contacts as long they dont phone me. maybe this resulted in some natural- selection,- with most of my clients i have a good time if they hire me, they are happy with my work and  am with them. this certainly creates some atmosphere which for both is usefull.

before it was said that its good to take the clients on a "trip" with your work,- i agree with this, whenever it is possible.

[nicolaasdb]

rainer...you are soooo right...life is to short....You need a lot of luck.
My wife recently gave birth and this is the first time in about 5 year that I have taken a "breather" taking is a little slower and enjoying something really NEW.