leaf aptus 17 vs mamiya zd back

[gclaro]

Hi there

I was wondering about upgrading my camera, and i have a question to make.

What should i choose between, maintain my rz67 pro II and buy a refurbished leaf aptus 17 or buy a mamiya zd back with the 645 afd??

Thanks for your opinions

[BernardLanguillier]

Hi there

I was wondering about upgrading my camera, and i have a question to make.

What should i choose between, maintain my rz67 pro II and buy a refurbished leaf aptus 17 or buy a mamiya zd back with the 645 afd??

Thanks for your opinions
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142992\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If I am correct, the Leaf is a 36x36 mm that will offer only extremly limited wide angle capability on your rz67.

If wide is important, then the ZD is clearly the way to go.

Regards,
Bernard

[Dustbak]

I have owned an A17. I still find it an excellent piece of equipment. The advice is difficult.

For the RZ you would go for a V-mount A17 and get the appropriate adapter. Indeed on the RZ you would loose your wide capabilities but that can be solved in other ways if you really need it.

The Aptus is definitely very versatile and delivers outstanding quality. When you would be more specific maybe I can address that.

[BernardLanguillier]

Aptus 17 physical sensor size from Leaf website:

 43.2 x 31.7 mm
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yeah, that's not square as I thought it was, but it is still significantly smaller that that of the ZD (48 x 36).

Cheers,
Bernard

[Snook]

Hey Dustbak thanks for the information.
I have a question for you. In all your years with your aptus 17 did you have any problems with it?
Does the fan cause and more problems as it is another moving part?
I am torn between the Phase p30,p25 and an Aptus 22 at the moment and am being offered some attractive prices...:+}
I have no chance to try any of them and will have to make a purchase based on reviews and Opinions.
Just wanted to know if you could share some more thoughts on the leaf over Phase if you could?
Thank you
Does anybody know where I can find out more information on Phase and Leaf backs and their problems?
Their forums obviuosly are not going to help.
Is there a Leaf Forum anywhere?
Thanks a lot
Snook

[JDG]

Hey Snook,

As a Digital Tech I used both leaf and phase quite a bit.  Generally I tend to be much happier with the phase but both produce top quality files.  The nice thing about phase is the lack of a fan, this makes it run much quieter and actually keeps the ccd cooler because it is putting it to sleep between captures.  The metal casing acts a a giant heat sink.  This system allows much longer captures on the phase backs and lower noise.  I've yet to see a fan go down, but I imagine it would be quite problematic if it did.  The aptus s very sensitive to software changes, once you upgrade your software on your computer you cant really downgrade as this can cause big firmware issues in the back.  My only other gripe with Leaf was that they put the batter over the firewire port.  This means it can be nearly impossible to tether to a laptop on location.   Most of the problems experienced with Phase backs came from bad firewire cables, or the software crashing.

My personal opinion is that Ive had a much nicer user experience with Phase, and most art directors these days know how to use it for editing (and will often request it, at least in NYC)

[Snook]

Hey Snook,

As a Digital Tech I used both leaf and phase quite a bit.  Generally I tend to be much happier with the phase but both produce top quality files.  The nice thing about phase is the lack of a fan, this makes it run much quieter and actually keeps the ccd cooler because it is putting it to sleep between captures.  The metal casing acts a a giant heat sink.  This system allows much longer captures on the phase backs and lower noise.  I've yet to see a fan go down, but I imagine it would be quite problematic if it did.  The aptus s very sensitive to software changes, once you upgrade your software on your computer you cant really downgrade as this can cause big firmware issues in the back.  My only other gripe with Leaf was that they put the batter over the firewire port.  This means it can be nearly impossible to tether to a laptop on location.   Most of the problems experienced with Phase backs came from bad firewire cables, or the software crashing.

My personal opinion is that Ive had a much nicer user experience with Phase, and most art directors these days know how to use it for editing (and will often request it, at least in NYC)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey thanks for the information. I heard someone went with the Leaf system because it tethered great actually.
The funky battery underneath the unit kind of throws me off a little but we can have everything.
Does the battery cover the firewire on the Aptus 22? I have never physically seen one.
But I know people were raving that it works really well if not better than Phase?
This  is he say she say,
Can you explain further the problem?
I wish my art directors were a little more civilized also..  
I have seen some nice files from both and am making my decision pretty soon as All I am missing is the back.
They still cannot understand why I cannot send them EPS files straight from C-1 Pro...  
Snook

[Sami Kulju]

My only other gripe with Leaf was that they put the batter over the firewire port.  This means it can be nearly impossible to tether to a laptop on location. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It seems that, as a digital tech, You have never used Leaf tethered in location?

When tethered to laptop, Leaf takes all the power it needs from FW-connection.
You dont need a battery to power up the back.

Battery is placed when You shoot to CF.

I do 90% of my work in location, tethered. First I used Valeo and now Aptus for 2 Years. No problems til today. Great backs and fast also.

sami

[Snook]

It seems that, as a digital tech, You have never used Leaf tethered in location?

When tethered to laptop, Leaf takes all the power it needs from FW-connection.
You dont need a battery to power up the back.

Battery is placed when You shoot to CF.

I do 90% of my work in location, tethered. First I used Valeo and now Aptus for 2 Years. No problems til today. Great backs and fast also.

sami
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Sami for the information..
I thought that was strange that many were praising the tethered ability of Leaf and DustBak stated that the firewire port was blocked by the battery...  
Good to know.
I guess DustBak might have learned something as well//
Snook

[Sami Kulju]

Thanks Sami for the information..
I thought that was strange that many were praising the tethered ability of Leaf and DustBak stated that the firewire port was blocked by the battery...  
Good to know.
I guess DustBak might have learned something as well//
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Snook, I guess Dustbak knows Aptus inside out since he has owned one.
The fellow giving the statement of battery and FW and tethering  wasn´t him...

And to make it sure: the battery does block the FW port when installed. But it doesn´t make tethering hard since You don´t install it when shooting tethered.

You only install it when shooting to CF. Actually its good that it covers the FW port then - it gives some shelter to the port and different kind of small staff (depending on location: sand,sticks,dust, insects etc.) dont go in...

sami

[Snook]

Thanks Sami.. In any case I wasn't blaming anybody...  
I appreciate the info..
Snook

[Dustbak]

Hey Dustbak thanks for the information.
I have a question for you. In all your years with your aptus 17 did you have any problems with it?
Does the fan cause and more problems as it is another moving part?
I am torn between the Phase p30,p25 and an Aptus 22 at the moment and am being offered some attractive prices...:+}
I have no chance to try any of them and will have to make a purchase based on reviews and Opinions.
Just wanted to know if you could share some more thoughts on the leaf over Phase if you could?
Thank you
Does anybody know where I can find out more information on Phase and Leaf backs and their problems?
Their forums obviuosly are not going to help.
Is there a Leaf Forum anywhere?
Thanks a lot
Snook
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have owned a Valeo and Aptus. The Fan in the Valeo was definitely more noisy than the Aptus. The Valeo fan got a bit dusty after using it for 4 years in my studio but never gave me a problem. The Aptus never gave any problems with the fan.

I have never experienced any problems with both backs. I consider the A17 one of the finest pieces of equipment available. When I compare it with the CF39 that I currently use, the A17 is sturdier, easier to handle, easier in usage and allows a lot more abuse. The thing simply works. Even when the big screen is not always easy to see in bright light the Leaf has a fantastic overlay histogram and indication on how far you are off in stops and colors (red, orange and green when you are close). I only really started to appreciate that when using the Hasselblad. Mind you the files that I get out of the CF are a nicer than the A17 (and bigger naturally) but I wish the Hasselblad had the build of the Leaf and feeling of reliability of the Leaf.

I have been using a P30 of a friend for a short while and that was also a very nice back. I can imagine you being in a difficult position, you basically would want to have them all but can only spare the money for one  

At this moment when given the choice between the P25 or A22 (or any comparable back) I would not know which to pick, to be frankly (unless you absolutely need long exposures in which case the Phase would be the way to go). In the end the price together with the reliability of the dealer would be leading however I would never put too much faith in any dealer.

Ah... I just read the battery thing. I must admit I would prefer the in back battery of the Phase but have never really experienced any problems with the battery underneath (besides it being a kind of ugly solution). Indeed tethered you cannot have the battery on but use the power from the firewire which means you can only use laptops with 6pin firewire out! (no problems with Mac but when you use Leaf capture (beta) for Windows you have to make sure your laptop has 6pin firewire or use a so-called 'power-injector'.

The disadvantage of the system for cooling that Phase always has used was that the back needed a wake-up signal. No problem with cameras that provide this but you needed special release cables on other cameras like view cameras or things like flexbodies, etc.. (not sure whether this is still the case, the last time I used that P30 it was on a H).

There is a Leaf forum on [a href=\"http://www.leaf-photography.com/]http://www.leaf-photography.com/[/url]  . You have to be a Leaf owner to participate.