Fine Art Reproduction - Sinarcam 1-3

[JerryReed]

I am a giclee maker, whose work is reproducing paintings.  I own the SINAR 54 H, and was anticipating purchasing the Hy6, but learned this week that my back (54 H) will not be supported by the Hy6.  This leads me to look for an alternative to the Mamiya 645 that I had been using until the Hy6 might be come available.

My dealer recently proposed that I look at a Sinarcam, which (as best I can understand from our brief conversation) utilizes a "Live View"-like function for focusing.  So, I am asking this assembled body of experience, what features does the Sinarcam 3 have that the previous versions (Sinarcam 1 and Sinarcam 2) do not have that would be helpful to someone whose work is as I have described?

Do you like this idea?

I have the Leica 100 mm MACRO, not an all too shabby lens, what might you think about utilizing this lens for this application?  Better choice?

Thanks in advance for your consistently excellent advice and counsel.

Best regards,

Jerry

Bummer about the Hy6!

[BobDavid]

I like the Hasselblad multi-shot backs, both the 22 and the 39. I'm not sure whether they'll adapt to an Hy6. They both have video focusing capabilities. As far as lenses for reproduction work go, I like the Rodenstock digital 70mm. I hear that the Schneider HR 47mm is good too.

[pprdigital]

I am a giclee maker, whose work is reproducing paintings.  I own the SINAR 54 H, and was anticipating purchasing the Hy6, but learned this week that my back (54 H) will not be supported by the Hy6.  This leads me to look for an alternative to the Mamiya 645 that I had been using until the Hy6 might be come available.

My dealer recently proposed that I look at a Sinarcam, which (as best I can understand from our brief conversation) utilizes a "Live View"-like function for focusing.  So, I am asking this assembled body of experience, what features does the Sinarcam 3 have that the previous versions (Sinarcam 1 and Sinarcam 2) do not have that would be helpful to someone whose work is as I have described?

Do you like this idea?

I have the Leica 100 mm MACRO, not an all too shabby lens, what might you think about utilizing this lens for this application?  Better choice?

Thanks in advance for your consistently excellent advice and counsel.

Best regards,

Jerry

Bummer about the Hy6!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=136724\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jerry:

The Sinarcam numbers 1,2 & 3 actually designate which digital back they are compatible with. Sinarcam 1 worked with Leaf DCB/Volare, Sinarcam 2 worked with Sinarback 22, 23, 44 (and I assume 54), and Sinarback 3 worked with Leaf Cantare.

It can be utilized as a camera with a Nikon or Olympus mount board, and accept those lenses (as well as DB mount Sinar digital lenses), but it's a tripod-only solution as it's a big 12x6x2 inch block with no real hand grip, etc. It's older technology - actually all Sinarcams are discontinued - so bear that in mind.

For copy work, it might work fine, but I don't see the advantage of using it over a 645AFD or Hasselblad 503CW, etc. It's quite possible there will never be a Hy6 mount for 54H - Sinar never made an H1/H2 mount for the 54H either. Although, I feel the Hy6 would be a good platform or the 54H, and it would serve Sinar's interest to make a mount, so who knows.

For now, I'd make do with an existing camera (like the Mamiya or Hasselblad) and see what happens from the Hy6 launch.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com

[PdF]

I generally use a Sinarcam 2, who works with all Sinarbacks, including 43HR, eMotion 22 & 75 and eVolution 75H.

This platform allows using shift mount boards : The Mamiya 645 and Hasselblad. I have a Mamiya one, who can give good results with the best Sekor lenses. But the real possibilities of the shift are usable with the little area's back (like 43 and 44). I also have a Nikon board: very comfortable.

The mounting on a Sinar 4/5 P2 allows to use the DB lenses. The digital DB HR lenses are the same as CAB's and CMV's : very very good ! I have four digital DB lenses, who gives me great pleasure and best results.

The Sinarcam 2 allows live video with a good quality of viewing. But they are two inconvenients:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/style_...cons/icon7.gif- with the recent CaptureShop's versions for the SinarCam 2, the fastest available speed is 1/8 sec. : too slow for a lot of applications. The ambient light can pollue the general flash light. It seems that the next version of CaptureShop will ameliorate speed (1/30 sec ???).

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/style_...cons/icon2.gif- you have two use a Sinarcam transformator and two different cables between the Mac and the camera: a special FireWire (for the connection with the Mac), and an other one (not long enough) between the Cam and the (not really discrete) transformator. This installation is a calvary to work out (you allways need electricity).

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/style_...s/icon1.gifBUT: for art reproduction, with the best lenses and a 54H, you have a perfect base to work. The results are perfect (because the 4 shots), and you conserve the possibility to work in 16 shots to have a bigger final document. I regret that this possibility of 16 shots is not avalaible with the new 75 evolution.

PdF

[thsinar]

It has not yet been definitively decided if there will be an adapter for the SB 54 H. We are currently chcking the technicl possibilities. This does not mean that there will be such an adapter, only that nothing has been decided yet.

Best regards,
Thierry

It's quite possible there will never be a Hy6 mount for 54H - Sinar never made an H1/H2 mount for the 54H either. Although, I feel the Hy6 would be a good platform or the 54H, and it would serve Sinar's interest to make a mount, so who knows.

For now, I'd make do with an existing camera (like the Mamiya or Hasselblad) and see what happens from the Hy6 launch.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=136746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Dear Philippe,

yes, as said earlier, the next CS 5.6 will integrate again the fast shutter speeds as before.

Best regards,
Thierry

But they are two inconvenients:

with the recent CaptureShop's versions for the SinarCam 2, the fastest available speed is 1/8 sec. It seems that the next version of CaptureShop will ameliorate speed (1/30 sec ).

PdF
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=136850\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Yes, the Cam 2 (as well as the Cam 1 & 3) have been discontiued.

However, from time to time we have second-hand units (understand re-furbished to new) at very good prices.

And yes, it works with the SB 54 series.

Best regards,
Thierry

Jerry:

The Sinarcam numbers 1,2 & 3 actually designate which digital back they are compatible with. Sinarcam 1 worked with Leaf DCB/Volare, Sinarcam 2 worked with Sinarback 22, 23, 44 (and I assume 54), and Sinarback 3 worked with Leaf Cantare.

It can be utilized as a camera with a Nikon or Olympus mount board, and accept those lenses (as well as DB mount Sinar digital lenses), but it's a tripod-only solution as it's a big 12x6x2 inch block with no real hand grip, etc. It's older technology - actually all Sinarcams are discontinued - so bear that in mind.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=136746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[PdF]

I like the Hasselblad multi-shot backs, both the 22 and the 39. I'm not sure whether they'll adapt to an Hy6. They both have video focusing capabilities. As far as lenses for reproduction work go, I like the Rodenstock digital 70mm. I hear that the Schneider HR 47mm is good too.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=136739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had problems to use smilies in my precedent intervention... please excuse me ...

For the reproductions of paintings, the most important is to have a big distance between the suject and the camera, with a long focal lense. This is the best method to minimise the reflections of the lighting on the subject. The painting can be like like a mirror, with an uneven surface. With a 6/4,5 back, a 70 mm is too short. The 47 mm could be good for architecture, but never for reproduction of paintings !

How long is the focal, how best it is (150mm, 210mm, ...) !

The video focusing is a very good tool. It helps to give the best precision in focusing and framing.     When you have tasted it, you can't go back to the (little) glass-screen !

PdF

[BobDavid]

I use cross polarization on a copystand for photographing oil paintings. I haven't had any problems with the 70mm Rodenstock Digital lens. If I used a 150mm lens, I'd have to have a fifteen foot column. From what I've been hearing, the Schneider 47mm is a good choice when shooting large artwork on a copy stand. So long as the lens and lights are polarized there shouldn't be any problem with errant reflections.

[JerryReed]

I use cross polarization on a copystand for photographing oil paintings. I haven't had any problems with the 70mm Rodenstock Digital lens. If I used a 150mm lens, I'd have to have a fifteen foot column. From what I've been hearing, the Schneider 47mm is a good choice when shooting large artwork on a copy stand. So long as the lens and lights are polarized there shouldn't be any problem with errant reflections.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=136975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bob,

I have a ten foot ceiling, can you let me know what camera and copy stand brand you are using in this manner?  When I have used the camera in a copy stand arrangement, with the lens in a vertical orientation,  the weight of the elements tends to cause the barrel to elongate shifting the focus.  How do you overcome that situation, if you encounter it?

Jerry Reed

[JerryReed]

Yes, the Cam 2 (as well as the Cam 1 & 3) have been discontiued.

However, from time to time we have second-hand units (understand re-furbished to new) at very good prices.

And yes, it works with the SB 54 series.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=136867\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry:

What did the Sinarcam sell for new?  Any idea what a reconditioned Sinarcam 2 might sell for in the USA - anyone in the USA have an idea?

Jerry

[BobDavid]

Bob,

I have a ten foot ceiling, can you let me know what camera and copy stand brand you are using in this manner?  When I have used the camera in a copy stand arrangement, with the lens in a vertical orientation,  the weight of the elements tends to cause the barrel to elongate shifting the focus.  How do you overcome that situation, if you encounter it?

Jerry Reed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137012\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Jerry,

I also have a ten foot ceiling. I'm using a modified Polaroid MP-4 copystand (the extra long column version). I've had to reinforce it to minimize vibration as I shoot in 4-shot and 16-shot mode. The stand sits on a cart that I can move around. I've got a Horseman 4X5 mounted on the stand with a sliding back adaptor that accepts the digital back (Imacon 384C). My primary lens is a Rodenstock Digital 70mm. The nice thing about this arrangement is that the column swivels around so that I can shoot onto the floor. When I use my Mamiya 645AFD on the stand, I tape the lens barrel with a strip of masking tape to keep it from drifting after I foucus the lens.

[thsinar]

Dear Jerry,

I have been speaking and asking at Sinar about the availability of a re-furbished Cam2: there are currently some very few in stock.

Also, we do still get such back periodically from customers wishing to upgrade to the p3 system.

So it shouldn't be that a problem to get one.

I would suggest you to contact your distributor (SBI in the US?) and tell him about our conversation here.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry:

What did the Sinarcam sell for new?  Any idea what a reconditioned Sinarcam 2 might sell for in the USA - anyone in the USA have an idea?

Jerry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=137013\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[mattlap2]

Jerry,

Have you considered the Sinar M Camera for this application?    This is one of those situations that the M Camera really shows its true value.  

The M camera will definitely accept the 54H back.   You would also have the choice of using the AF Zeiss Lenses, or Hasselblad H series lenses.   The M Camera / AF Lens Combo gives you the ability to control focus on a copy stand directly from the computer with live video.  

The M Camera is much more compact than the Sinarcam system.  Not to mention that it is currently supported product instead of a product that has been discontinued for more than 4 years now.

I realize that the cost will be more than a used Sinarcam and more than the Hy6 system, but this is case where the features offered may be worth the price.   There is also a chance that some Demo / Refurbished cameras may exist.    

I am no longer with Sinar Bron Imaging, so I can't be of any help with availability or pricing.   Give Dave McRitchie a call at (603) 867-1813.    He would definitely be able to set up a demo or at least give you more information.

Matt LaPointe