On1 and Perfect Effects

[kevs]

I used to use Perfect Effects a bit and took a break. It's now called On1  10 Photo.
Anyway, it seems real slow/ lot of timers/ beachballs. Usually effect softwares get faster at previews? No?

Anyone notice?

Also wont plug into CS5 only CS6.

Any easy way to upgrade to Mac PS CS6? Thanks

[nemophoto]

I've used the On1 software for a number of years. I'm not really impressed with version 10. It was bit of a learning curve to get done what i needed in version 9/9.5, which was different from 8 which was different from 7. Basically, with every iteration, I think it becomes more convoluted. And slower. Just my 2-cents.

[kevs]

Interesting Nem, thanks. Yes, it never seemed quite as fast as the others, really, isn't that #1 issue? When previewing all those filters you don't want to wait around... The interface/ wait, is nowhere as good as Alien Skin or Nik, of which I have both.  So it's sad, as I'm sure there are great things in there if you can bear the wait.

Does not make sense, isn't software supposed to get faster and better looking each version?

[nemophoto]

Frequently, the more "features" a company adds, the slower a program becomes. I've complained about On1's speed for a number of years -- to them -- specifically, as it related to the sluggish speed of Genuine Fractals (alias Perfect Resize) and it's interface. I find more companies have fallen for the so-called speed increase from GPUs. 9 out of 10 times, in craps up my system speed. I have it turned off on Lightroom. Photoshop is OK. But, by and large, GPU performance sucks in lieu of CPU. That is part of the issue you see with Photo 10.

[kevs]

I'm not techie N. so I don't understand that... I'm on 27" imac, and it's standalone now -- Effects by ON1... yet Google Nik, and Alien Skins effects are fast.

[nemophoto]

The CPU powers your computer; the GPU controls your graphics, your display and effects. Software developers have started taking a page from game designers and tried to harness the power of the GPU to render things and take the load off the CPU's processing. In my mind, it doesn't work -- at least yet. Nik and Alien Skin don't use this (at least as extensively) as On1. On1 seems to be relying almost exclusively on the GPU to do everything, which I believe is a mistake and drags down the performance. I have a relatively fast GPU and it drags. With an iMac, you have no alternative but to use the GPU that's built in. You can't replace the card the way you can on a Mac tower or a PC. So, in the end, your GPU is being overwhelmed by the processing needs of On1 and slows to a crawl. The same may happen when you use Lightroom -- the dreaded lag of the sliders or of the rendering of the display -- unless you turn GPU usage off, as I do.

[kevs]

Thanks Nem, that explains it better. Why does not ON1 know this and correct it? Do as Nik/ Alien do? If they are smart enough to run a software company then....?

I only use LR for web galleries, pdfs, that's it.

Should I even bother with ON1 effects? Just use only Nik and Alien? They are awesome- that's a lot there already. You think any great effects/ filters I would be missing?

Any other effects software I should know about?

[chez]

The CPU powers your computer; the GPU controls your graphics, your display and effects. Software developers have started taking a page from game designers and tried to harness the power of the GPU to render things and take the load off the CPU's processing. In my mind, it doesn't work -- at least yet. Nik and Alien Skin don't use this (at least as extensively) as On1. On1 seems to be relying almost exclusively on the GPU to do everything, which I believe is a mistake and drags down the performance. I have a relatively fast GPU and it drags. With an iMac, you have no alternative but to use the GPU that's built in. You can't replace the card the way you can on a Mac tower or a PC. So, in the end, your GPU is being overwhelmed by the processing needs of On1 and slows to a crawl. The same may happen when you use Lightroom -- the dreaded lag of the sliders or of the rendering of the display -- unless you turn GPU usage off, as I do.

GPU's can crunch numbers, especially floating point, much faster than CPU's. If used properly, an application which is numerical bound can be sped up many times by offloading these computations onto the GPU.

[nemophoto]

GPU's can crunch numbers, especially floating point, much faster than CPU's. If used properly, an application which is numerical bound can be sped up many times by offloading these computations onto the GPU.

True. Which is why so many games use them for 3-D texture, etc. However, I've yet to see an implementation in 2-D that uses this power well and efficiently. They are sort of like the old math processors that use to accompany CPUs on early PCs. But, again, the use of the GPU hasn't been used properly in any program I've seen. Photoshop uses it to smooth scrolling and enlargements of images. But programs such as On1 seem to use GPUs almost exclusively, rather than in tandem with the CPU. (Even games rely heavily on the CPU computing power -- not just the GPU alone.)

[Damon Lynch]

But, again, the use of the GPU hasn't been used properly in any program I've seen.

Web browsers use the GPU to speed up rendering. Video players use the GPU for the same purpose. Mobile phones and tablets make very extensive use of the GPU.

Regarding photography applications: a weak point is that the GPU and CPU don't access shared memory particularly efficiently. Specifically the problem is that the image data needs to be copied from CPU memory to GPU memory, which can be slow. Eric Chan mentions this problem in the LR CC/6 video tutorial. It is in fact an industry-wide problem. The problem is solved by the use of a Heterogeneous System Architecture, but it will take some years for it to become truly mainstream in both hardware and especially software. See for instance http://www.anandtech.com/show/9690/hsa-foundation-update-more-hsa-hardware-coming-soon

[Pictus]

Capture One and Corel AfterShot Pro 2 does use GPU very well, but need at least a *modern* GPU middle-class level, not entry level models.
Topaz Glow and Impression does too, because of the GPU Topaz Glow is many times faster than Redfield Fractalius.

BTW, I liked when ON1 did not use the GPU/OpenGL interface and the programs were not "glued" together...